RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) Having announced my intention to upgrade my passenger stock with Comet kits, it seems the proper place to document this and my thoughts about the process is here and not on Layout Topics. My first kit arrived in the post today, only ordered on xmas day, so I am very pleased with the level of service and delivery time from Wizard; first class stuff! It's a C55/75 all third non-gangwayed compartment, to be finished in BR unlined crimson with one side finished and numbered as an A42/3 intermediate trailer to run with an A44 driving brake third yet to be be acquired, and the other as a 'conventional' C55/75, a bit of a cheat but you get 2 coaches for the price of one! Not sure how this is gonna pan out. Cursory examination shows that the kit is pretty much complete except for couplings and wheels, and I am very pleased to see that the tumblehome has been pre-formed; this was one of my worries. The only thing missing so far as I can see at the moment is the glazing and the compartment dividers, both matters I can easily sort out myself. I've done this sort of thing once before, a GW inspection saloon, which turned out ok so I'm not expecting any major problems with it, but it's a long time since I've done anything like this and time will be allowed for a re-learning curve. Time is not the biggest factor here, and I will be proceeding slowly and methodically. I have 4 of these coaches to build; a brake composite (possibly bow-ended) and the A44 auto to go with this, a flat ended D117 B set, more correct for Cwmdimbath than the old Airfix currently in service. The plan is to build them one at a time, to avoid repetition and boredom, spread the cost, and prevent a backlog of part-built kits taking over my work space. New kits will not be started until their predecessor is in service, painted and numbered, or at least that is the intention. There will also be an attempt at a diagram N auto trailer with a 3D printed body. Comments, constructive criticisms, suggestions, and just general opinions on the subject will be very welcome! Edited December 28, 2018 by The Johnster 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Cursory examination shows that the kit is pretty much complete except for couplings and wheels, and I am very pleased to see that the tumblehome has been pre-formed; this was one of my worries. The only thing missing so far as I can see at the moment is the glazing and the compartment dividers, both matters I can easily sort out myself. No strips of plastikard in the box? They might be in the pack of seating. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 28, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 Possibly/probably. I have only very cursorily examined the contents, and may well have missed them. I assume the seating is Ratio; it's the same colour! Another thing I didn't see that might be there somewhere is brass top hat bearings for the bogies; again, not the end of the world if I have to provide my own! The box is a stout affair and perfectly capable of being used as the project box for this build; I am very pleased overall! it would have been perfect if it was deep enough to be used as a stock box for the completed coach, but that is a very carping criticism which I am not going to make... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 29, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Of, course, if I'd bothered to read the box, I'd have seen that the kit is complete except for '19mm disc wheels, couplings, and bearings', which may have some bearing on matters... The box features colour photos of completed models in BR crimson and GW shirtbutton choc/cream, and it is surprising how different the otherwise identical coaches look! This one will be finished in BR crimson to run with the planned A44 auto trailer which will have to be crimson or lined maroon as they were not introduced until 1955 and ran until the early 60s, but lined maroon is pushing it a bit for Cwmdimbath's period. The others will be able to appear in austerity brown, 1945-7 choc/cream, and the various transition liveries, which were really only variations in numbering font practice and 'W' prefix or prefix and suffix. Edited December 29, 2018 by The Johnster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted December 31, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2018 I finished my 7mm B set in unlined maroon on one side and crimson the other. I can’t see any drawback other than if I ever sell it, but it still feels a bit “wrong”! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 1, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 It'll only look wrong if the side colour is visible in an end view, and I wish I could pull this stunt off on some of my auto trailers! This C55/75 'intermediate trailer one side' will be even less objectionable, and only the numbers will be different. The auto gear cannot be modelled with tension locks anyway, and I am not sure that the originals carried 'TRAILER' branding on the ends; obviously I'll have to forego that on mine anyway! But I know what you mean about it feeling wrong, something to be ashamed of! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 @The Johnster No. Why shame? It's for you - time and money do play their part in decision making. You can take your time and ensure both sides are well finished and if and when you come to sell on, the purchaser may well want 'two' coaches too! Happy New Year to all! Philip (ex-Cardiffian) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2019 I finished my 7mm B set in unlined maroon on one side and crimson the other. I can’t see any drawback other than if I ever sell it, but it still feels a bit “wrong”! I have several GW coaches on the the go and they will be in GW lake on one side and 1922 Chocolate and Cream on the other and what happens after I run down the curtain and join the choir invisible will not bother me, I will have had the pleasure from them! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 1, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 Well, it won't bother me to the extent that I'll refuse to do it, but it just feels vaguely wrong and a bit like cheating. This is not a rational attitude from someone who is happy to put up with track a scale 8 and ½ inches out of gauge, or RTR wheel profiles, or tension lock couplers. May take a bit of a closer look at the components later and start planning the order in which things are to be assembled. I'm sort of assuming the coach will be built from the railhead upwards, bogies first followed by chassis then body then roof as the final act after the interior has been painted and passengers put in, but it may not work out like that in practice, and I want an overview before I start work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 On my layout when a young parent with not much spare cash my diesels and tank engines had different numbers on each side. As the layout was operated from the middle it didn't matter. I even sold some at a profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The problem is proper locomotives usually have the numbers on the front anyway.... Getting back to Comet coaches. I had a look through my pile earlier and wondered why I had so many sides. Then I remembered that I bought loads of sides to alter RTR coaches, then found it just as easy to build the kits. I haven't built one for quite a while though. Some of them must be getting on for being nearly thirty years old. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Well, it won't bother me to the extent that I'll refuse to do it, but it just feels vaguely wrong and a bit like cheating. This is not a rational attitude from someone who is happy to put up with track a scale 8 and ½ inches out of gauge, or RTR wheel profiles, or tension lock couplers. May take a bit of a closer look at the components later and start planning the order in which things are to be assembled. I'm sort of assuming the coach will be built from the railhead upwards, bogies first followed by chassis then body then roof as the final act after the interior has been painted and passengers put in, but it may not work out like that in practice, and I want an overview before I start work. Have you read the Building Coaches the Comet Way download? http://www.cometmodels.co.uk/data/PDF/Building%20Coaches%20the%20Comet%20Way2.pdf That's the way I would do it. Body first. Good thing is, if you make a mistake then all the parts are available separately. Did these carriages have rainstrips or ribs on the roof? If so use this tape. Far better than using microstrip. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/c20/ Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 2, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2019 I think I will download this before starting work. I'd already worked out that the first job is to build the bodyshell as everything attaches to this, and the coach will now probably be constructed from the cantrail down with the roof to finish. I am given to understand that the difference between the C55 and C75 diagrams was to do with rainstrips or roof ribs, and will need to do some research before numbering. The coach will be numbered as an A43 intermediate auto trailer on one side, so must have the appropriate roof details, meaning that the other side must be numbered as a non trailer accordingly, but I do not have the requisite information yet, and it may be some time before I need it! I have no idea how long this coach is going to take me to build and finish off, but I'm guessing about 2 months in short sessions. I want to be as methodical as I can and make those sorts of decisions before I start; this is a psychological ploy as much as anything else to avoid my being disheartened by having a load of unfinished assemblies on the go simultaneously. Later coaches will be of the same general design and I may be able to work faster and more efficiently, but another psychological principle is not to start the next one until the current one is finished and in service, for similar reasons. To discipline myself for this, I intend not to order the next one until the current one is finished and in service, or very close to it! Thank you for your support and advice, Jason! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 2, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2019 I'm sort of gearing up to starting work fairly soon with this; body first. I can't quite see how the tumblehomed body fits over the interior when this is attached to the underframe, which is the order in which things are apparently done. How does the slightly narrower bottom of the body clear the compartment dividiers, or do I rebate these slightly to accept the body sides? We shall see; I am certainly not going to deviate from 'the book' more than I can help it on this first attempt! Maybe some progress to report by the end of the weekend, chaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 If you build the interior to the floor plan in the instructions it'll fit, it shouldn't be a problem. Any gaps won't be noticeable. But you might need to do a bit of fettling. Think of it like a RTR coach when it's stripped down to it's parts. You are just building it in metal rather than plastic. Some hints on this thread by Larry. I'm mainly pointing out the interiors, but some good tips in there as well. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67996-making-use-of-Dapol-lms-coach-kits/ Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 2, 2019 The partitions are more likely to foul the roof than the sides. I chamfer the top edges for clearance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 3, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 This is all very re-assuring and encouraging, just what I need at the trepidatory start of the project. After all, if I mess this up in any way that I cannot resolve, my whole coach replacement program is at risk. Thank you both for the info and encouragement. It will be some weeks before I get to that stage and the matter is resolved one way or another, but rest assured I will be keeping you all posted of my progress or lack of it as the build progresses or doesn't. I'm starting to feel fairly confident about starting now, a return to 'proper' modelling after over 30 years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 Don't forget to fit any droplights if they need fitting;(some) Comet sides have them etched in place. Also, do you want to fit hinges? Need to do that before you start any building except for maybe the very end door ones. I've built many Comets and would be willing to advise you at each stage if you wish. Photo's can help illustrate some sections of the build for you. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 I used to hate soldering on the droplights and wish they were half etched, but after painting them I think the extra depth helped make the painting easier. As for the hinges why on earth Comet can’t just do the sensible thing and etch the holes in situ I don’t understand. Drilling them out is by far the worst task on building a comet kit. Especially on compartment stock with lots of doors. It’s the main reason I still haven’t bought the rest of the 70footers I want to build Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 3, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2019 Droplights already etched as integral part of the sides on these Collett coaches, some open or part open, so that's one problem already solved. Thank you very much for your offer of advice and guidance, Phil; I will almost certainly be needing some and it's very re-assuring to know I can ask someone if I get stuck rather than try and bodge my way out of the situation. Hinges; haven't decided yet and may simply attach short lengths of wire to give an impression. I side light my layout so relief detail is important. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2019 Had a good look at the box contents earlier, and have opened 2 of the packets, the sides and ends. It looks as if the first task is to fold up the box sections that form the join between the ends and underframe floor, to which the sides are also attached; tomorrow evening has been pencilled in for this and possible soldering of ends and sides. Seems straightforward so far, even to me... The sides are quite fragile and I am keen to get the roof attached fairly soon to give the thing some structural integrity. Pretty sure my wire hinges will work well enough.v Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 6, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 6, 2019 It Has Begun. Confucious him say journey of 1,000 leagues start with single step, and Confucious was a clever old cove, so I'm taking it slowly and not trying to do too much at once, so I haven't done much! I have drilled out the holes for the jumper cables in the ends, soldered the nuts to the box section end pieces, folded those to shape, and soldered them to the ends, about half an hour's work and enough for tonight. Next stage is to attach the sides, each to an end, and the two side/ends to each other, a fairly critical stage and I will be thinking about a jig of some sort to ensure the necessary right angles as suggested in the booklet. It looks fairly straightforward, but has to be got right... Starting has overcome a bit of a psychological barrier and I have been putting it off all weekend, but the project is properly under way now and will I hope maintain it's own momentum. It's a good few years since I've worked with brass, and I'd forgotten what a lovely thing it is to work with! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 @The Johnster, Any chance of a photo or three showing how you tackle the construction? I've never done brass kits and was curious. Cheers, Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Hi Johnster, I’m looking forward to seeing this progress. Just a couple of things to consider: Assuming you are using the Comet/Wizard underdrame decide whether you are going with the flat fold down trusses or replacing them with angle. Either way I’ve found a bit of scrap etch soldered across the floor where they are etched stiffens things up nicely. Just make sure its not I’m the way of anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 8, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 @The Johnster, Any chance of a photo or three showing how you tackle the construction? I've never done brass kits and was curious. Cheers, Philip What, and show everybody my awful soldering and untidy work bench! Ok, I'll see what I can do on the next session. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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