RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted December 21, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2018 Hi everyone, As per the topic line, can anyone tell me what use was made of the TRL leased POA/PNA wagons? More specifically I am interested in the POAs as painted a pale grey/off white colour, and the PNAs painted in ARC 'mustard'. Just in case there are multiple types of wagons, it's the same type as modelled in 00 by Bachmann. Thanks in advance for any help. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH-UK Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 There was a point where the plain grey ones were used for scrap between Shotton/Dee Marsh and Ravenscraig. IIRC the "Railfreight Today" video covering the Northwest shows them tagged on to the rear of the Clitheroe-Gunnie cement train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 some notes on POA wagons TRL 5170 - TRL 5181 worked from BSC Shotton to BSC Ravenscraig / BSC Port Talbot with baled scrap TRL 5181 was in yellow livery and i think TRL 5175 was in light blue and originally fitted with some sort of roof / tarpaulin The other batch was TRL 5254 - TRL 5266 again working out of Shotton, The ARC POA of which i think there were 29 of , worked with granite chippings from Penmaenmawr to Ashburys https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_12_2011/post-6680-0-29905300-1322843557.jpg Others worked from Merehead quarry to various destinations with stone Calcified seaweed from Drinnick Mill Machen quarry to various - stone ,noted in this traffic were trl 5155,56,69,74,75,83.trl 5388,91,94,96.trl 5457,58,61,65,66,71,75,81,85,87,88,89. Leicester to ASW Cardiff with frag scrap noted were trl 5143,82,84,90. Trl 5345,51,79,89. Trl 5406,12,13,48,50,55,63,70,73,79,82,84 Maryport to Padiham power station - coal , this used a mixture of grey and ARC POA https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwja3-nNyrHfAhUDfxoKHRTrD_4Qjhx6BAgBEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fmick_page%2F7425874518&psig=AOvVaw2sflMV_OsU2jI0b5odJgD5&ust=1545504374478679 i will see what else i can come up with Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They were also used for ballast and spoil during the upgrade of the 'Boat Train' routes, prior to the opening of the Channel Tunnel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They also worked some of the early spoil trains from Shakespeare Cliff. As Brian mentioned the were used for 'dirty ballast' and sleepers from the renewals for the Channel Tunnel. A lot of CWR from the main line was re-used in Dollands Moor, so these wagons took away loose sleepers. The loading was a bit iffy and trains had to be load examined before leaving site (after a concrete sleeper fell off and dropped over Foord Viaduct.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Further to the information provided above by Brian and Ernie, the grey POA's were used to convey spoil from major track renewals in Kent associated with the Channel Tunnel construction and a photo of one such working is appended below (apologies for the poor quality). On 11th January 1992 and running almost two hours early, 47975 'Institution of Civil Engineers' approaches Gillingham (Kent) with the 1105 (6Z80) Folkestone West to Hoo Junction conveying POA's loaded with spoil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 They also worked some of the early spoil trains from Shakespeare Cliff. As Brian mentioned the were used for 'dirty ballast' and sleepers from the renewals for the Channel Tunnel. A lot of CWR from the main line was re-used in Dollands Moor, so these wagons took away loose sleepers. The loading was a bit iffy and trains had to be load examined before leaving site (after a concrete sleeper fell off and dropped over Foord Viaduct.... Ernie. Do you remember the collection that were 'red-carded' at the site of the former goods depot by Folkestone East? Most had broken springs after rough loading. There was one, I recollect, with an underframe from a Ferry tank of some sort. The end platform was still in situ, giving an odd, asymmetric, appearance., Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Ex Yeoman POA and Loadhaul MKA in coal , no idea where both pics are taken. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil R Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Around 1990/91 the pale grey POAs were used on a flow of limestone from Whitwell quarry in NE Derbyshire to Witton, Birmingham. Often hauled by a large logo or Railfreight Construction liveried Class 56. Regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 They were bought in the early 90s by BR as it accelerated the switch of its engineering fleets from Vac to Air brakes. They had been replaced in commercial flows by higher capacity bogies boxes. Once in BR ownership, some had the holes cut in the side as ZKA Limpet to prevent overloading by spoil. Some unmodified ones, as shown above, were recorded as MKA by the shadow FOCs and used for revenue freight again including coal. In the end under EWS, I think most had sides cut down to work along side the MFA and MHA conversions on ballast & spoil traffic with NR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I have a flickr album of ZKA pictures https://www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/albums/72157636011528054 with numerous pictures, mostly 2003. I'd been asked to report on weld failures noted at maintenance, at the bottom of the side stanchions When running as MKA's see https://www.flickr.com/photos/55938574@N03/albums/72157641131566313 This is a good weld on MKA DC 390241. The ones on what looked like ex UK Tank Wagon underframes had various body configurations. I suspect that the requirement was quite vague. In these the side stanchions were supported by gussets below each stanchion. The one with the UIC double link, had them missing each other. You need to check the pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 They were bought in the early 90s by BR as it accelerated the switch of its engineering fleets from Vac to Air brakes. They had been replaced in commercial flows by higher capacity bogies boxes. Once in BR ownership, some had the holes cut in the side as ZKA Limpet to prevent overloading by spoil. Some unmodified ones, as shown above, were recorded as MKA by the shadow FOCs and used for revenue freight again including coal. In the end under EWS, I think most had sides cut down to work along side the MFA and MHA conversions on ballast & spoil traffic with NR These were purchased by BR when APG the parent company of Tiger Rai went into receivership initial ones were converted at Currock and were for Intercity, York also converted some and then did the first 13 Doorands but others were simply recoded MKA as they were wanted for revenue traffic. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Their use in revenue-earning traffic didn't finish when they had the 'letter boxes' cut in the side. I encountered a couple at Margam, formed in a short train with a couple of MEAs and some other wagons, loaded with fine coal. Every time the suspension hit the bump stops, yet more of the load would trickle out... It was apparently a trial flow to Scotland- I wonder how much got there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted December 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2018 Didn't Cleveland potash use some for a period in the mid 90s on rock salt traffic from boulby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Didn't Cleveland potash use some for a period in the mid 90s on rock salt traffic from boulby These replaced the MTV's and came from the wagons that had been used after the Maryport to Padiham traffic finished and some staff at Boulby got free coal as they needed cleaning out for salt. These were replaced by the Tiger Procor built bogie boxes. Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted December 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2018 Did we have MTVs on boulby? I can't remember those. I can remember seeing them in lackenby possibly moving scrap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Did we have MTVs on boulby? I can't remember those. I can remember seeing them in lackenby possibly moving scrap Russ https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mtvzander/e337f8012 In Middlesbrough Goods taken by Paul Bartlett, I was stood next to him but mine are B&W prints so I took the easy option! Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Ernie. Do you remember the collection that were 'red-carded' at the site of the former goods depot by Folkestone East? Most had broken springs after rough loading. There was one, I recollect, with an underframe from a Ferry tank of some sort. The end platform was still in situ, giving an odd, asymmetric, appearance., Brian, Do you mean this one? There were several wagons that day in Folkestone East. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 These were purchased by BR when APG the parent company of Tiger Rai went into receivership initial ones were converted at Currock and were for Intercity, York also converted some and then did the first 13 Doorands but others were simply recoded MKA as they were wanted for revenue traffic. Mark Saunders BR also bought the PGA hoppers and created the Gunnell conversions plus the rebodying of countless OBA/ OCA /VAA etc into ZCA Sea Urchins at the same period in time. A very fluid time, not just wagons but locos etc as sectorisation then shadow privatisation kept moving fleets. As you say, Intercity & Network Southeast invested heavily in air brake engineers stock (and that small pool of engineers 56s). Regional Railways, certainly in Scotland was a lot slower, running an eclectic mix of wagons, class 26s, 37s & 47s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Brian, Do you mean this one? L-263 FE 11-10-92 POA TRL 5186.jpg There were several wagons that day in Folkestone East. Cheers. There was an earlier build that were used by Allied Steel & Wire for scrap and Mendip Quarries for stone; these had the side stanchions reversed revealing the U section but they were only short lived! Mark Saunders https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/poapo15a/e21234dc1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
warringtonbankquay Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I wonder whether this photo shows the conversion with a tarpaulin cover, immediately behind 47 310: http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/47310%20Ffynnongroew.jpg Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 The discussion has extended, May be of interest https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/limpet https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/doorand Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I wonder whether this photo shows the conversion with a tarpaulin cover, immediately behind 47 310: http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/47310%20Ffynnongroew.jpg Chris It is the one off conversion but it did not last long with the hood! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Alex TM Posted December 23, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2018 Hi everyone, Thanks for all your input on this. I was not aware of the variety of variations on these, and on their varied uses. This latter variety gives me some other options for their use, especially as I have now found a reference to them being used in some traffic to the former Methil Power Station (coal slurry?). MTVs have also been mentioned - does anyone have a dimensioned or scale drawing of one of these? Thanks again. Regards, Alex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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