Drone disruption at LGW

[ikks]

Last month i took my little girl out for wees and poos (she's my puppy)  .........lights close by in the next paddock(new  up in the air my wife said it's a drone) imaybe 30 metres away but heading towards my place . Went back to the house and grabbed my 303, yelled out what the fxxxx going on and let fly wiy6h a couple of blanks(usually kept for scaring skippies)..................nothing since

 

Mike

[EddieB]

Indeed, but it's an interesting example of how foreign visitors can react differently to things we've become acclimatised to. I have a similar reaction when I visit Brussels and see Belgian soldiers milling about everywhere in camo and armed with assault rifles, most of the time they're just stood around smoking, scratching their backsides feeling bored and ogling passing women but I just find it a bit odd to see the army regularly deployed in such numbers and often with barbed wired barricades at key points.

And being Brussels, there’s an unguarded back door just around the corner...

[Happy Hippo]

If we are not careful, the model aviation world will suffer the same knee jerk reaction that the shooting world did in the last century.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people enjoy flying model aircraft (fixed and rotary wing) just as others do shooting.  You never hear anything about them until you get an incident, then the press go into overdrive and every person who buys a drone/gun is a raving nut job.

 

We also have to remember that some of the many drones that will be sold this Christmas are tiny little things, only really capable of flight indoors with extremely limited range, and are harmless.  

 

Certainly most of the quadcopters I have been involved with  would be lucky to reach 200 feet and the range was limited to about 5-8 minutes of flight time.

 

These are hardly the type of model that are going to be terrorising seasoned pilots at 10,000 feet on the approach to a major airport.  

 

However, anyone with a braincell can  custom build a quadcopter using off the shelf parts, and with the flight times and performance that plagued Gatwick, they would suggest a hand built machine.

 

Finally after much fluffing around the Army got called in and used an Israeli designed system to negate the threat.  Considering the fact that during WWII the RAF had 100 Group, dedicated to electronic countermeasures, and we were world leaders in such development, it is a sad state of affairs that our defence industry is reduced to buying in some thing that once would have been a 'bread and butter' item from within the UK

 

Of course lets not forget we also have the inept approach of Government who could so easily have adopted the stance taken by the USA in civil airfield protection.  Instead they took the rather wet and introverted policy of wait and see, so are now playing catch up rather than having been a bit more proactive.

 

I'm just surprised that no one has yet blamed Brexit!

[Dunsignalling]

Errr, the military and their equipment are the ones who have been brought in to do what the civilian authorities can't. Not really sure what the carriers have to do with it. 

 

The UK MOD purchased the Rafael Drone Dome anti drone system earlier this year for use in Iraq/Afghanistan, each unit costing £2.6 million. 

 

If you want to criticise the MOD for anything, do it for not also buying the hard kill laser which can be added to the units. 

 

https://www.janes.com/article/82347/uk-signs-for-drone-dome-c-uas-system

 

Tom.  

Would I be right in thinking that hard-kill would obliterate the thing, whereas soft-kill just brings it down? 

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

 

 

 

 

Of course lets not forget we also have the inept approach of Government who could so easily have adopted the stance taken by the USA in civil airfield protection.  Instead they took the rather wet and introverted policy of wait and see, so are now playing catch up rather than having been a bit more proactive.

 

I'm just surprised that no one has yet blamed Brexit!

 

Agreed.

 

Whatever the issue, it's much easier to take and keep control from the beginning rather than having to wrest it back after things have gone awry.

 

Unfortunately, as always seems to be the case in this country, a perceived private commercial opportunity trumped public safety considerations.  

 

John

Edited December 21, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[TomE]

Would I be right in thinking that hard-kill would obliterate the thing, whereas soft-kill just brings it down? 

 

John

 

Correct. 

 

Hard kill laser systems are beginning to find their way into use as close in weapon systems in the military, the US Navy has had one deployed operationally aboard an Amphibious Assault ship for a little while now:

 

https://youtu.be/9ElNjgZCDpQ?t=72

 

QinetiQ here in the UK, in fact not that far from where I'm sat now, have the Dragonfire system under development: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/dragonfire-laser-weapon-expected-to-be-tested-soon/

 

Whether or not such systems can be adapted for safe civilian use I don't know, but it would be one way of protecting airfields from incidents such as this. 

 

Tom.  

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

I watched and listened to the situation unfold on Wednesday evening and would like to pay tribute to the way Air Traffic Control and the pilots involved dealt with it all. At one point, around 25 aircraft were diverting from Gatwick holds towards Stansted.

 

A beautiful aerial ballet across Kent and the Thames estuary conducted with calmness, precision and safety.

 

Brian

[TomE]

Looks like this isn't over yet. Just hearing Gatwick has suspended operations again! 

 

Tom.  

[jjb1970]

Maybe use of a hard kill weapon against whoever is controlling these drones would be more sensible than targeting the drone (oh dear, I'll get into trouble for that one.....).

[IWCR]

When you catch them just take them to the departure lounge, introduce  them to the delayed passengers, step back and close the doors for an hour or two..

[polybear]

Difficult for you apparently. Potential to endanger and actual endangering are not the same thing.

 

Flying a large drone over an operational airfield whilst large commercial aircraft full of passengers are taking off and landing is a real danger.  Perhaps if you're sat on the next Buddy Holly Airways (aka Ryanair) flight to Tenerife waiting to take off and the Pilot announces "Dear Passengers, there's some D1ckhead flying a bloody great drone over the airfield that'll really spoil our day if it goes down the intake - I'll do my best to dodge it.  Please get off now if you don't want to risk it" you might feel differently.  I've a suspicion that any sane Pilot will be at the head of the exodus.

Should you feel capable of defending the scrote responsible for recent events at LGW in a court of law then do please let me know when the case is, as I'll be sure to come along and watch.  It should be quite entertaining.

[John M Upton]

Breaking news. Gatwick shut down again, new sighting of the drone.

 

This is getting silly now...

[polybear]

When you catch them just take them to the departure lounge, introduce  them to the delayed passengers, step back and close the doors for an hour or two..

 

Five seconds should be plenty.....it should be possible to squeeze in a tea break as well.....

[Reorte]

The UK spends Billions a year on the military, and they can not bring down a drone over an airfield. It demonstrates the waste of money spent on the aircraft carriers.

The next war will not be like the last. In fact it may already have started, we just have not realised it yet.

With the likes of Grayling in charge all we need is a white flag.

Unless of course there is more to this than we have been told.

No, that doesn't add up at all. Might as well say aircraft carriers are a waste of money because they don't stop someone jumping out of bushes scaring people then running off to hide again. That they're not the solution to this sort of problem, that solving this drone issue acceptably isn't a problem that seems to have been solved yet, doesn't say anything one way or the other about military capability. They would've been eliminated pretty quickly if they presented a danger that couldn't be solved by stopping flights.

[Liam]

Currently at Tenerife refuelling, as the first plane Thomas Cook could lay their hands on (which was in Manchester) had a smaller fuel capacity. And we're delayed a bit here due to the issues with the toilet - silly, I know...

[bimble]

well... unless they actaully track the drone back to it's landing point, or shoot it down (somehow) and retrieve finger prints, the perpetrator is unlikely to be caught. Unless it's flying a predeterminded GPS route and they catch the person and the route is still programmed in the drone...

 

Keep in mind it takes less than a minute to replace the battery, and there's no reason why the person might not have spare batteries to replace them to give them several runs across the airfield before needing to pause to recharge them.

 

Of course, if they get a good photo of it and it says "fly Stansted/Luton"...

[boxbrownie]

Looks like this isn't over yet. Just hearing Gatwick has suspended operations again! 

 

Tom.  

Cover of darkness brings out the bravery.......let's hope this idiot/s clash with the Army very soon!

[TomE]

Flights resumed. Looks like everyone is a bit jittery and it was a false sighting. 

 

Tom.  

[Nearholmer]

".....let's hope this idiot/s clash with the Army very soon!"

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

​The secretary of state for transport says it is "unlikely" to be the work of a foreign state, but he was careful not to rule out that possibility.

[25901]

**BREAKING NEWS**
Police net closes on Gatwick Drone suspect (latest cctv photo below)...do you know him???

[Mallard60022]

Well that was an interesting read. 

I am awaiting the 'discovery of the cause' of this frighteningly simple way of disabling the UK's second, most busy Airport. 

For my half penneth I think we will be surprised at how this came about. One thing I will say is that it is really worrying that the situation was not resolved within hours; also no COBRA after a longer period when things were going t##s up, as well as the seeming lack of a defensive Strategy to be put into action by the Airport Authority at the first sign of threat, other than the immediate and professional action of the ATC and immediate no fly order.

P 

[Nearholmer]

How about a “hack” that pre-loads a flight across the runway at Gatwick into every hobby-drone capAble of being so programmed. This hack is arranged so that it initiates on loss of control signal during flight, rather than a ‘land gently’ or ‘go to last known operator location’ subroutine.

 

Now, it might initiate in many drones, but the vast majority will conk out before they get near the place, but one day, one makes it, like a salmon swimming up-river .......

 

Anyway, just a fantastical musing, horn of a heavy cold.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Junctionmad]

How about a “hack” that pre-loads a flight across the runway at Gatwick into every hobby-drone capAble of being so programmed. This hack is arranged so that it initiates on loss of control signal during flight, rather than a ‘land gently’ or ‘go to last known operator location’ subroutine.

Now, it might initiate in many drones, but the vast majority will conk out before they get near the place, but one day, one makes it, like a salmon swimming up-river .......

Anyway, just a fantastical musing, horn of a heavy cold.

I’d like a “ hack” that allows me to build a replicator that’s makes tea , equally fanciful I know

[APOLLO]

Like one of these ?

 

 

Brit15

[Reorte]

How about a “hack” that pre-loads a flight across the runway at Gatwick into every hobby-drone capAble of being so programmed. This hack is arranged so that it initiates on loss of control signal during flight, rather than a ‘land gently’ or ‘go to last known operator location’ subroutine.

Anyone really intent on causing trouble will just build their own. This isn't a problem that can be dealt with with extra laws.