Drone disruption at LGW

[hayfield]

In some ways I'd agree, however in this particular case what happened was already illegal and introducing controls such a controlling sales, or registering drones or requiring some sort of licensing won't do anything to prevent such actions where there is nefarious intent.

 

 

You are quite correct in that the majority who indulge in criminal and or anti social behaviour do not give a fig about the law, however laws need up dating as society and or technology evolve as both a guide to those who try and stay on the right side of the law or to assist the legal fraternity to successfully deal with those who flout it

 

I am of the opinion that whilst not being too severe on those who accidently err we must have a framework to deal appropriately with those with complete disregard their responsibilities to society 

[TomE]

The more I read about the couple arrested the more I'm suspecting this could well be a case of someone with an axe to grind who knows the husband has owned drones/aircraft & has taken umbrage with him for some reason. On the other hand, there is nowt so queer as folk! 

 

Tom.  

[hayfield]

The more I read about the couple arrested the more I'm suspecting this could well be a case of someone with an axe to grind who knows the husband has owned drones/aircraft & has taken umbrage with him for some reason. On the other hand, there is nowt so queer as folk! 

 

Tom.  

 

 

Tom

 

I would assume there are hundreds of folk with drones around the area, I would think the police may have a bit more intelligence about this matter. Also the last close down ended very quickly, what made them feel so confident to re-open so quickly this time?

[298]

That rather suggests a highly resourced (state-sponsored?) perpetrator rather than some amateur nutjob with a chip on his/her shoulder.

 

It'll point to a couple of Russians taking a short break to visit Lewes Castle with fine medieval history...

[phil-b259]

 Also the last close down ended very quickly, what made them feel so confident to re-open so quickly this time?

 

The Miitary

 

While we don't know all the details, it seems to me that bringing in the Army and their high tech kit that resolved the situation.

[Reorte]

You are quite correct in that the majority who indulge in criminal and or anti social behaviour do not give a fig about the law, however laws need up dating as society and or technology evolve as both a guide to those who try and stay on the right side of the law or to assist the legal fraternity to successfully deal with those who flout it

That's true as a generalisation but in this specific case as far as I can see the law is already sufficient; there's no doubt that the drone(s) were operating illegally, and any laws to really effectively stop people even getting the bits to build their own would have to ban most electronics, which obviously isn't going to happen.

[TomE]

Tom

 

I would think the police may have a bit more intelligence about this matter.

 

Perhaps not! 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46665615

 

Couple no longer suspects. 

 

It’s a good thing no media outlets named them, spoke to their employers and interviewed their parents then...

 

Tom.  

Edited December 23, 2018 by TomE

[Pacific231G]

I tend to view that as an argument for more severe sentencing for serious crimes involving violence and think sentencing for serious crimes in this country is a joke.

On that basis the United States, with imprisonment rates of about 700 per 100 000 people should be almost free of crime while Denmark and Sweden with a relative prison population of around 60-70 per 100 000, less that 1/10th of the US level, should be cesspits of unpunished criminality. I know where I'd feel safer and it isn't Texas!

I don't believe that Britons are twice as likely to be criminal as Germans, which is what the relative prison populations would suggest, but perhaps Anglo Saxons just enjoy locking people up (Australia has a similar prison population per head to Britain's) .

 

Far from being a joke, Britain's prison population of around 170 per 100 000 is the highest in Western Europe and, bizarely, in a period when crime levels were generally falling, has doubled since 1990

The enormous costs involved in locking up so many people don't make us any safer from crime- probably the reverse. The money we spend on long prison sentences would be far more usefully spent on better policing and boring things like youth centres, drug rehablitation facilities, community projects and restorative justice. Unfortunately, those don't get Home Secretaries standing ovations at party conferences. Meanwhile, in our overcrowded prisons, rehabilitation (partly through education and employability training) is a bad joke despite the best efforts of many dedicated prison service staff.

 

FWIW I think the perpetrators of the drone attacks on Gatwick should go to prison and I'm sure that if caught they will, probably for several years as an exemplary sentence  (and a couple of years banged up in prison is not "a slap on the wrist")  but talk of life sentences is just silly.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Pacific231G

[newbryford]

Perhaps not! 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46665615

 

Couple no longer suspects. 

 

Tom.  

 

Nice job of the Wail on Sunday to have a picture on the front cover as "suspects". I think the MoS used the word moron in the headline

I bet they'll get a nice payout from the paper...……..

[PMP]

FWIW I think the perpetrators of the drone attacks on Gatwick should go to prison and I'm sure that if caught they will, probably for several years as an exemplary sentence  (and a couple of years banged up in prison is not "a slap on the wrist")  but talk of life sentences is just silly.

Clearly if a Life sentence was given that would reflect the severity of the specific case including no doubt methodology used, and, (I presume) the future risk the individual presents if given a shorter sentence. 

 

1. Life sentence for serious offences

A sentence of imprisonment for life must be imposed, where the following criteria are met (Section 225 Criminal Justice Act 2003):

• the offender is convicted of a specified offence (listed in Schedule 15 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003); and
• in the court’s opinion the offender poses a significant risk to the public of serious harm by the commission of further specified offences; and
• the maximum penalty for the offence is life imprisonment; and
• the court considers that the seriousness of the offence justifies the imposition of imprisonment for life.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/31/section/1

 

Part 2b

and 5

 

 

A thought on 'terrorists' appearance, and emphasising the arrested couples subsequent release for not being connected with the events at Gatwick, what does a 'terrorist' look like? The answer is they can look like anything or anyone and security training emphasises that point. If they want high visual exposure they'll behave and dress accordingly, if they want to be discrete, looking like Mr and Mrs Smith at No.37 is the perfect cover.

Edited December 23, 2018 by PMP

[PhilJ W]

Nice job of the Wail on Sunday to have a picture on the front cover as "suspects". I think the MoS used the word moron in the headline

I bet they'll get a nice payout from the paper...……..

Hopefully.

[Colin_McLeod]

Not sure why there is a debate about whether aircraft were endangered. They obviously were as a drone deliberately flown into an aircraft engine could potentially bring the aircraft down.

[MarkC]

Nice job of the Wail on Sunday to have a picture on the front cover as "suspects". I think the MoS used the word moron in the headline

I bet they'll get a nice payout from the paper...……..

The sooner that rag goes bust, the better.

 

Alienating a large number of its readers was not a good move, as folk stopped clicking on links to it, deleted its App etc. This can only help its demise, one hopes...

 

But I digress

[Pacific231G]

I did find myself wondering whether this attack was something of a "proof of concept" by those from a governmental rather than a criminal, terrorist or nutjob background (though those four are becoming increasingly indistinguishable)

[298]

Not sure why there is a debate about whether aircraft were endangered. They obviously were as a drone deliberately flown into an aircraft engine could potentially bring the aircraft down.

But what if the Drone is only flown over taxiways, and then not near aircraft? It's similar to the unsolved moral conundrum someone climbing onto a motorway gantry and shutting the road, causing chaos locally. If there the was a fatality due to increased traffic, could the culprit on the gantry be held for manslaughter?

[hayfield]

On that basis the United States, with imprisonment rates of about 700 per 100 000 people should be almost free of crime while Denmark and Sweden with a relative prison population of around 60-70 per 100 000, less that 1/10th of the US level, should be cesspits of unpunished criminality. I know where I'd feel safer and it isn't Texas!

I don't believe that Britons are twice as likely to be criminal as Germans, which is what the relative prison populations would suggest, but perhaps Anglo Saxons just enjoy locking people up (Australia has a similar prison population per head to Britain's) .

 

Far from being a joke, Britain's prison population of around 170 per 100 000 is the highest in Western Europe and, bizarely, in a period when crime levels were generally falling, has doubled since 1990

The enormous costs involved in locking up so many people don't make us any safer from crime- probably the reverse. The money we spend on long prison sentences would be far more usefully spent on better policing and boring things like youth centres, drug rehablitation facilities, community projects and restorative justice. Unfortunately, those don't get Home Secretaries standing ovations at party conferences. Meanwhile, in our overcrowded prisons, rehabilitation (partly through education and employability training) is a bad joke despite the best efforts of many dedicated prison service staff.

 

FWIW I think the perpetrators of the drone attacks on Gatwick should go to prison and I'm sure that if caught they will, probably for several years as an exemplary sentence  (and a couple of years banged up in prison is not "a slap on the wrist")  but talk of life sentences is just silly.

 

 

In some ways you are quite right, in that perhaps we should look again at those we lock up, on one hand we are told that too many who are in prison do not deserve to be there, on the other hand far too many times when the justice system has been lenient with offenders they reoffend sometimes with tragic results. Look at crime figures and the high percentage that never gets investigated let alone solved, and the growing number of individuals who have total disregard to any form of authority or social responsibilities 

[TomE]

I did find myself wondering whether this attack was something of a "proof of concept" by those from a governmental rather than a criminal, terrorist or nutjob background (though those four are becoming increasingly indistinguishable)

 

 

More likely to be BALPA trying to instigate harsher drone laws! 

 

Until they catch those responsible we're not going to know the motivation behind this, but my money is still on environmentalists or airport expansion protestors. 

 

Tom.  

[Mallard60022]

The sooner that rag goes bust, the better.

 

Alienating a large number of its readers was not a good move, as folk stopped clicking on links to it, deleted its App etc. This can only help its demise, one hopes...

 

But I digress

 

Telegraph were involved first off IIRC including the pictures on line.  Incidentally, I think newbyford mentioned the Wail and the other one, so equally guilty?

P

Edited December 23, 2018 by Mallard60022

[PMP]

But what if the Drone is only flown over taxiways, and then not near aircraft?

The aircraft doesn’t need to be airborne or moving to be ‘endangered’

[MarkC]

Telegraph were involved first off IIRC including the pictures on line.  Incidentally, I think newbyford mentioned the Wail and the other one, so equally guilty?

P

Reporting arrests is one thing, but the Heil made a very derogatory comment. That was unacceptable.

 

Pictures on line is a fact of life, these days, unfortunately.

[Pacific231G]

But what if the Drone is only flown over taxiways, and then not near aircraft? It's similar to the unsolved moral conundrum someone climbing onto a motorway gantry and shutting the road, causing chaos locally. If there the was a fatality due to increased traffic, could the culprit on the gantry be held for manslaughter?

I'm pretty sure their actions would have to be directly responsible for a death for there to be any question of manslaughter. If someone dropped a brick from the gantry (without the intent of actually injuring someone) and it killed someone in a car or directly caused a fatal accident then that probably would be chargeable as manslaughter but increased traffic could not in itself be the primary cause of a fatal accident.. We are after all supposed to be able to drive in any traffic without colliding with other vehicles or people (though on bank holidays you do sometimes wonder)   

[Mallard60022]

Reporting arrests is one thing, but the Heil made a very derogatory comment. That was unacceptable.

 

Pictures on line is a fact of life, these days, unfortunately.

 

Absolutely. That couple could (have) experience(d) extremes of attention. No smoke without fire some will say. Others will want to 'help' them get compensation.....Load of b######s and I am now fed up and am going to say something controversial. Thousands have had to sleep rough at Gatwick....whilst thousands sleep rough all the time.

Merry Christmas.

P

[jjb1970]

On that basis the United States, with imprisonment rates of about 700 per 100 000 people should be almost free of crime while Denmark and Sweden with a relative prison population of around 60-70 per 100 000, less that 1/10th of the US level, should be cesspits of unpunished criminality. I know where I'd feel safer and it isn't Texas!

I don't believe that Britons are twice as likely to be criminal as Germans, which is what the relative prison populations would suggest, but perhaps Anglo Saxons just enjoy locking people up (Australia has a similar prison population per head to Britain's) .

 

Far from being a joke, Britain's prison population of around 170 per 100 000 is the highest in Western Europe and, bizarely, in a period when crime levels were generally falling, has doubled since 1990

The enormous costs involved in locking up so many people don't make us any safer from crime- probably the reverse. The money we spend on long prison sentences would be far more usefully spent on better policing and boring things like youth centres, drug rehablitation facilities, community projects and restorative justice. Unfortunately, those don't get Home Secretaries standing ovations at party conferences. Meanwhile, in our overcrowded prisons, rehabilitation (partly through education and employability training) is a bad joke despite the best efforts of many dedicated prison service staff.

 

FWIW I think the perpetrators of the drone attacks on Gatwick should go to prison and I'm sure that if caught they will, probably for several years as an exemplary sentence  (and a couple of years banged up in prison is not "a slap on the wrist")  but talk of life sentences is just silly.

The causes of crime are a completely different argument, as as arguments in favour of crime prevention measures. I don't see this as an "either/or" argument, I see no reason why tough sentencing and measures to prevent crime such as education, Policing, rehabilitation etc cannot co-exist. However, if a person rapes somebody, commits a violent assault, murder etc then such crimes should incur serious sentences. In terms of feeling safe in Texas, having spent a lot of time in Texas along with a lot of European cities I really can't say I feel any safer in Europe than Texas and if anything I see a lot less low level anti-social behaviour in Texas. Then again, I tend to feel safest in Japan and Singapore of the countries I visit a lot.

[polybear]

The aircraft doesn’t need to be airborne or moving to be ‘endangered’

 

As this incident demonstrates all too well....

[Colin_McLeod]

But what if the Drone is only flown over taxiways, and then not near aircraft? It's similar to the unsolved moral conundrum someone climbing onto a motorway gantry and shutting the road, causing chaos locally. If there the was a fatality due to increased traffic, could the culprit on the gantry be held for manslaughter?

That would be an ecumenical matter.