Fat Controller Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 OK, so I now know what's what with the wagons, but I'm really intrigued about the chain pockets. I imagine the depression has a bar across the diameter to which a chain can be attached, but was that for securing a BD container or what? There was no need to lash down a container in a 5-plank Highfit, be it wood or steel bodied, nor even in a 3-plank Medfit, hence their use. The chain-pockets would be used to attach ropes to fix down large crates and similar, or smaller containers which didn't fully occupy the floor-space of the wagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) OK, so I now know what's what with the wagons, but I'm really intrigued about the chain pockets. I imagine the depression has a bar across the diameter to which a chain can be attached, but was that for securing a BD container or what? The chain pockets on Conflats were there simply to store the chains when there was no container on board. IIRC they had heavy steel mesh in the bottom to prevent them filling with rainwater. The various steel shackles around the perimeter of the wagon are what was used to hold down the load. John Edited December 20, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2018 OK, so I now know what's what with the wagons, but I'm really intrigued about the chain pockets. I imagine the depression has a bar across the diameter to which a chain can be attached, but was that for securing a BD container or what? The chain pockets on a Conflat were the boxes the chains, and shackles were carried in when the wagon had no container on it. The link provided by Jeremy in post number 10 explains how containers are secured on various types of wagons and which wagons they are not supposed to travel on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I suspect the reference to 'chain pockets' on the Hattons advert is as accurate as the grey livery. It's certainly misleading in the context of this discussion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 20, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2018 I suspect the reference to 'chain pockets' on the Hattons advert is as accurate as the grey livery. It's certainly misleading in the context of this discussion. Yet again it is a comapny making a mistake. Chain Pockets on a Conflat were the boxes below body level along the solbar. These were storage for the chains when a container was not being carried. What Hattons are calling chain pockets are in fact dimples with a small strip of metal welded across them on the inside so that loads could be roped in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Thank you, gentlemen. I finally know what's what with Conflats and containers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I suspect the reference to 'chain pockets' on the Hattons advert is as accurate as the grey livery. It's certainly misleading in the context of this discussion. There was one Lot (2366) built unfitted, and painted grey; There's a photo in British Railways Wagons by Don Rowland. Any attempt to use chains in conjunction with the internal roping-down points would be doomed to failure, because of a lack of clearance for the handle of the tightening lever. Even roping would be difficult. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I get it now. They were like the hand holds on some of the Britannia smoke deflectors, but were facing inwards, and you attached the rope/chain to that. Obvious when you think about it. Picture from Wiki. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Indeed, because Bachmann 5-planks are ex-PO types on 9' underframes. Try the 3-plank wagon and the ex-LNER steel body highfit. The BD definitely goes into the former (I think Bachmann have done so themselves) but I'm not sure about the other one. John It works on the steel high, but its a rather tight fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Gosh. It certainly didn't look like that when it was a regular on the Grimsby fish trains. It was invariably filthy, and leaking steam from all over the place. I well remember a shunter saying he didn't know why it had a whistle, as you could hear it clanking and knocking long before you could see it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) Gosh. It certainly didn't look like that when it was a regular on the Grimsby fish trains. It was invariably filthy, and leaking steam from all over the place. I well remember a shunter saying he didn't know why it had a whistle, as you could hear it clanking and knocking long before you could see it ... That photo is years old as it's at Bressingham. I think that was still it's as withdrawn from BR condition. May 2004 just before restoration according to Wiki. Jason Edited December 20, 2018 by Steamport Southport Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2018 I use Bachmann 3 and 5 plankers and steel medfits to carry containers on my layout as well as conflats, and find that my 3 BD containers, two recent one BR one GW 'door to door', and one very ancient Airfix BR 'furniture', are all different toolings. This means that some will fit into the larger wagons more easily than others, though all drop into my LMS 3 planker quite easily. I also have a Peco 'Scalescene' one, but this seems to be to something like 3.8mm scale and is too small; it sits at the back of a loading dock to hide a join. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The Bachmann BD container will go into a steel High but needs a little filing before it fits. The LMS 1 plank wagon someone mentioned is their diagram 1986. Cambrian do a kit for it. BR banned their use for containers, but not for some years, so I have one in my early 1950s wagon stock: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 The Bachmann BD container will go into a steel High but needs a little filing before it fits... Further to the above and what The Johnster posted about varying sizes of BD container mouldings. When I blithely asserted that a BD container will fit in the Bachmann 'High Steel' and the Hornby 5 plank general merchandise opens, I hadn't thought about this issue. All of my BD's are Bachmann mouldings, and must be 20 years old (bought as a s/h lot with matching conflats from a friend departing OO for outdoor live steam). Of course you could alternatively put some 'bulge' in the steel sides to clear a container, After some years in service not a few of these wagons looked like they had been attacked by a madman standing inside vigorously wielding a very heavy hammer.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 ... After some years in service not a few of these wagons looked like they had been attacked by a madman standing inside vigorously wielding a very heavy hammer.. Ah. I don't recall ever seeing one that didn't, so I kind of assumed they were all like that from new ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) OK, so I now know what's what with the wagons, but I'm really intrigued about the chain pockets. I imagine the depression has a bar across the diameter to which a chain can be attached, but was that for securing a BD container or what? No, No, NO ! ....... these round dimples are merely round dimples - and contain a ring to which a load can be roped or chained as appropriate ( the ring hangs flush within the dimple when not in use ).............. Chain POCKETS, on the other hand, are the boxes for storing container-attaching chains below floor level on various designs of purpose-built Conflat - most clearly seen on the GW / BR Conflat A : http://www.rmweb.co....flat-container/ as seen earlier in this thread. Sorry that does seem to have been covered already ............ maybe I should read to the end of a thread before commenting ? ........................................ but one thing worth saying is that unfitted Conflats were becoming a rarity before nationalisation because containers were used for high value and/or perishable goods that needed quick transit - and for the same reason it was rare to see a ( loaded ) container in any other non-fitted wagon. Edited December 21, 2018 by Wickham Green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2018 Rare but not impossible. I have seen pictures of freshly painted containers leaving the works in unfitted 5-plank opens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 No, No, NO ! ....... these round dimples are merely round dimples - and contain a ring to which a load can be roped or chained as appropriate ( the ring hangs flush within the dimple when not in use ).............. Chain POCKETS, on the other hand, are the boxes for storing container-attaching chains below floor level on various designs of purpose-built Conflat - most clearly seen on the GW / BR Conflat A : http://www.rmweb.co....flat-container/ as seen earlier in this thread. Sorry that does seem to have been covered already ............ maybe I should read to the end of a thread before commenting ? ........................................ but one thing worth saying is that unfitted Conflats were becoming a rarity before nationalisation because containers were used for high value and/or perishable goods that needed quick transit - and for the same reason it was rare to see a ( loaded ) container in any other non-fitted wagon. It does seem that the term "chain pockets" was used though. I've come across it in a few places not just the Hatton's website. On the Paul Bartlett site he uses "chain dimples". https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ohb Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 It does seem that the term "chain pockets" was used though. I've come across it in a few places not just the Hatton's website. On the Paul Bartlett site he uses "chain dimples". https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ohb Jason ... Chain dimples - just my description - as mentioned they had a ring on the inside mounted so they could move (not as described as a bar!) https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandisesteel/e12c8b31b Whereas Chain Pocket is an official description as described more than once - a box on the side of a conflat A for storing the chains. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Every day is indeed a skule day That's a right myth-buster about chain pockets and dimples, excellent work fellas! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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