Pre Grouping fan Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Barry O said: Having watched the Video can I ask a quick question? if you can't fit the "hibcaps" how are you holding the coupling rods in place on the crankpins? Couldn't that have been done with the "hubcaps" Baz They are Hex-head screws, the same as all other manufacturers. Because the hubcaps/covers were bolted to the rods in real life as covers for the bearings they shouldn't turn and I don't think there would be a way of incorporating them into the crankpins without having them moving. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 6, 2020 they would be less noticeable if fixed then not having them at all..Baz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KR Models Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Barry O said: they would be less noticeable if fixed then not having them at all..Baz Then the locomotive wouldn't move. We want the model to work. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, KR Models said: Then the locomotive wouldn't move. We want the model to work. The way I read it, and @Barry O will correct me if I'm wrong, is that the lesser of two evils (given that having non-rotating hubcaps fitted to the crankshafts seems to be a no-go) would be to have them fixed to the crankpins and rotating, rather than not having them at all. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 hours ago, KR Models said: Then the locomotive wouldn't move. We want the model to work. Obviously you know even less abour how a model locomotive works than I gave you credit for. You generally have either a crankpin firmly attached to a wheel with the rods passed over the crankpin and the held on by a retaing washer or nut. Or yougave a hex headed screw which passes into the wheelthrough the rod. With the latter you could have made the outside of the crank screw a done shape, for the first one you caould have added the cover. There is a photo of GT3 sans the covers..then you have to have a representation of the roller bearings. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 If the outside of the crank screw is a dome shape, how is it secured? If the answer is Loktite, then how it is removed if needs be? 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 Er..try turning it.. just like the ones on say a Hornby loco.. they shouldn't be a need for them to be taken off.. Baz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Barry O said: Er..try turning it.. just like the ones on say a Hornby loco.. they shouldn't be a need for them to be taken off.. Baz Baz, I think that the point is that there would need to be some form of recess within the dome, in which to insert a screwdriver or similar instrument. Far simpler than all this debate about how to devise crankpins that look like domes, (but would nonetheless turn when they shouldn't), would be clip-on domes, fitted to the coupling rods that covered a conventional crankpin - which, correctly, wouldn't turn. Given that the coupling rods are massive compared to those of a steam locomotive, and the domes are the size of a small drawing-pin, it would definitely be possible to devise such a clip-on cover. Whether there is the motivation / finance to devise such an item is another matter ..... What is certain is that GT3, without these covers, will lack a characteristic feature, and be the poorer for it. John Isherwood. Edited July 7, 2020 by cctransuk 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) We are informed that the model is already in production with orders that match production numbers so it is what it is. Maybe someone will design and develop a practical after market solution. Edited July 7, 2020 by Colin_McLeod 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: We are informed that the model is already in production with orders that match production numbers so it is what it is. Maybe someone will design and develop a practical after market solution. Etched replacement rods with recesses for cast / printed resin domes with clips; or, at least ..... perhaps the Modelu covers - https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2279/- could be modified with the crankpin hole eliminated, and a recess behind the dome to accommodate the KRM crankpin heads; for those who like to live dangerously with superglue? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Here's my 2 cents worth for the crankpins Hopefully the drawing will explain better than words First is a dome with a thin Hex section Second is a dome with a Hex section Third is similar to the second but the 6 flats for the Hex don't join but should provide enough flat for a spanner to grip When stationary it should look fine When moving the head of the crankpin will turn with the wheel but will it be all that noticeable? John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 Interestingly both Broadway Limited and Bachmann seem to have managed large circular head crankpin nuts (not domed) in HO scale on models for the US market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 hours ago, cctransuk said: Etched replacement rods with recesses for cast / printed resin domes with clips; or, at least ..... perhaps the Modelu covers - https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2279/- could be modified with the crankpin hole eliminated, and a recess behind the dome to accommodate the KRM crankpin heads; for those who like to live dangerously with superglue? Regards, John Isherwood. 3 hours ago, John ks said: Here's my 2 cents worth for the crankpins Hopefully the drawing will explain better than words First is a dome with a thin Hex section Second is a dome with a Hex section Third is similar to the second but the 6 flats for the Hex don't join but should provide enough flat for a spanner to grip When stationary it should look fine When moving the head of the crankpin will turn with the wheel but will it be all that noticeable? John Thank you John and other John for those good ideas, but by develop I meant bring to the market so that people can buy one, just like I can buy detail kits, etched nameplates etc to improve other models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said: Thank you John and other John for those good ideas, but by develop I meant bring to the market so that people can buy one, just like I can buy detail kits, etched nameplates etc to improve other models. Well, it won't be me - I have enough on my hands with current demand for transfers - including those for GT3. Frankly, the easiest solution for those who care about the absence of 'hubcaps' is to buy the Modelu ones as they stand. When the model is released, remove a crankpin and check what the thread form is - probably one of the smaller metric ones. If possible, buy some studding of the same thread type as the crankpins, or buy some bolts of the same thread and cut off the heads. Screw the threaded rod into the wheels in place of the crankpins and replace the coupling rods. Take the Modelu 'hubcaps' and place one onto each threaded rod - tap the holes in the 'hubcaps' if possible / necessary. Apply a tiny spot of epoxy - NOT superglue - to the centre of each 'hubcap' where the threaded rod emerges. When the epoxy has fully set, cut off the protruding threaded rod, and clean up the centre of each 'hubcap'. It should still be possible to remove the coupling rods by unscrewing the new 'hubcaps' / crankpins, and revert to the as-bought arrangements if required at any point. Sounds long-winded, but dead easy in fact; job done! I wouldn't hold my breath for an 'off-the-shelf' detailing kit. John Isherwood. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rhnrhn Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Barry O said: Er..try turning it.. just like the ones on say a Hornby loco.. they shouldn't be a need for them to be taken off.. Baz ... unless you are into P4 or EM and want to convert the model to fit those gauges, then they have to come off. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, rhnrhn said: ... unless you are into P4 or EM and want to convert the model to fit those gauges, then they have to come off. Agreed but if they are either screwed in as part of a crankpin or fitted with a hidden nutility to screw on it isn't a problem. Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 7, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 hours ago, cctransuk said: Well, it won't be me - I have enough on my hands with current demand for transfers - including those for GT3. Frankly, the easiest solution for those who care about the absence of 'hubcaps' is to buy the Modelu ones as they stand. When the model is released, remove a crankpin and check what the thread form is - probably one of the smaller metric ones. If possible, buy some studding of the same thread type as the crankpins, or buy some bolts of the same thread and cut off the heads. Screw the threaded rod into the wheels in place of the crankpins and replace the coupling rods. Take the Modelu 'hubcaps' and place one onto each threaded rod - tap the holes in the 'hubcaps' if possible / necessary. Apply a tiny spot of epoxy - NOT superglue - to the centre of each 'hubcap' where the threaded rod emerges. When the epoxy has fully set, cut off the protruding threaded rod, and clean up the centre of each 'hubcap'. It should still be possible to remove the coupling rods by unscrewing the new 'hubcaps' / crankpins, and revert to the as-bought arrangements if required at any point. Sounds long-winded, but dead easy in fact; job done! I wouldn't hold my breath for an 'off-the-shelf' detailing kit. John Isherwood. here’s me thinking of a tiny blob of dark green plasticine shaped to a circle, carefully pushed onto the hex screw. remove it by simply pulling it off. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 hours ago, adb968008 said: here’s me thinking of a tiny blob of dark green plasticine shaped to a circle, carefully pushed onto the hex screw. remove it by simply pulling it off. Have you actually looked at a photo of the real thing? ..... but if that satisfies you - so be it !! If you compare the size of the head of a normal crankpin hex screw, and the size of the real 'hubcaps', why bother with the plasticene? Just imagine the 'hubcaps' are there. Perhaps KRM could have saved even more money, and just printed the windows onto the cab - or the grilles onto the bonnet? John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Half-full Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Have you actually looked at a photo of the real thing? ..... but if that satisfies you - so be it !! If you compare the size of the head of a normal crankpin hex screw, and the size of the real 'hubcaps', why bother with the plasticene? Just imagine the 'hubcaps' are there. Perhaps KRM could have saved even more money, and just printed the windows onto the cab - or the grilles onto the bonnet? John Isherwood. Crikey, you have a hell of a chip on your shoulder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Half-full said: Crikey, you have a hell of a chip on your shoulder Not at all - I have tried throughout this thread to make sensible and positive contributions. I have no beef with KRM - I won't buy GT3 because I have already modelled it; I have a kit for 10100, but I have place EOIs for the Leader and DHP1. I just get annoyed when people tell me something can't be done, and especially when a detailed, practical solution to the absence of 'hubcaps' on GT3 is met by a stupid and pointless suggestion of using tiny bits of plasticene. If purchasers are happy to run a model of GT3, which is missing one of its most striking features, they are welcome to do so - I am not posting for their benefit! Let me repeat - I have no axe to grind; I already have a model of GT3, that I built, and that completely satisfies me. John Isherwood. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, cctransuk said: Not at all - I have tried throughout this thread to make sensible and positive contributions. I have no beef with KRM - I won't buy GT3 because I have already modelled it; I have a kit for 10100, but I have place EOIs for the Leader and DHP1. I just get annoyed when people tell me something can't be done, and especially when a detailed, practical solution to the absence of 'hubcaps' on GT3 is met by a stupid and pointless suggestion of using tiny bits of plasticene. If purchasers are happy to run a model of GT3, which is missing one of its most striking features, they are welcome to do so - I am not posting for their benefit! Let me repeat - I have no axe to grind; I already have a model of GT3, that I built, and that completely satisfies me. John Isherwood. You are, of course, perfectly correct that the hubcaps are one of GT3’s most striking features. If they are missing, that is unfortunate but I for one feel that if KR cannot find a practicable way of providing them, I have to accept that. An after market solution may be offered – at the moment, the modelu offerings seem most vaible. Your contributions are indeed sensible and positive but I suspect that adb968008’s plasticine suggestion was made tongue in cheek. It made me grin, anyhow. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGR Hooper! Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, cctransuk said: I won't buy GT3 because I have already modelled it John Isherwood. Chances are the thousand or so people who actually did buy the GT3 from KRM are least bothered by the lack of hubcaps. They either don't know that it's there (despite it's size), or they are more than happy with the compromise. Edited July 8, 2020 by MGR Hooper! 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted July 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, MGR Hooper! said: Chances are the 1000 or so people who actually did buy the GT3 from KRM are least bothered by the lack of hubcaps. They either don't know that it's there (despite it's size), or they are more than happy with the compromise. In which case, it surprises me that quite a few prospective purchasers expressed concern here that the 'hubcaps' would be omitted. My recent suggestions were made in response to one such posting, which hoped that an after-market item might be produced. I doubted that this would happen, and I offered a practical alternative. Clearly, my efforts were wasted on several prospective GT3 owners - perhaps they would rather that I did not draw their attention to the absence of certain distinctive features? John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 28 minutes ago, cctransuk said: In which case, it surprises me that quite a few prospective purchasers expressed concern here that the 'hubcaps' would be omitted. My recent suggestions were made in response to one such posting, which hoped that an after-market item might be produced. I doubted that this would happen, and I offered a practical alternative. Clearly, my efforts were wasted on several prospective GT3 owners - perhaps they would rather that I did not draw their attention to the absence of certain distinctive features? I don't think that your efforts are wasted, John. RMwebbers tend to be more critical of failings than the greater modelling public. But they're also more likely to source an AM alternative. I know that I will. To be fair on KRM, the observation that the hubcaps are missing was brought up fairly late in the development cycle, although, arguably, such a prominent feature should also have been identified earlier during the research phase. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) On 08/07/2020 at 08:40, cctransuk said: Have you actually looked at a photo of the real thing? ..... but if that satisfies you - so be it !! If you compare the size of the head of a normal crankpin hex screw, and the size of the real 'hubcaps', why bother with the plasticene? Just imagine the 'hubcaps' are there. Perhaps KRM could have saved even more money, and just printed the windows onto the cab - or the grilles onto the bonnet? John Isherwood. oh my, such a response, deserves a reply. In my years ive used egg crates, corks, Metal threads, ring pulls, bottle lids, pens (knibs and ink wells), wire mesh from wine bottles (great for pickups), drinking straws (pipes) and any number of household items to repair and build models. Silver foil is great for crumpling and sticking to the side of a wagon for dirtying and looking beaten up, coke cans make great metal roll loads for wagons. Ive lost count of how many lamp irons ive cut from match sticks to 0.5mm width and 0.25mm depth and 2mm height, then painted. Whilst I have great respect for your skills, it does you a disservice to ignore creativity in household items around you. maybe my upbringing was less privileged than yours, and I needed to arrive at solutions instead or cutting parts from a kit in a catalog, but I would challenge you to spot the difference in the results.. Here is a diesel, and a non -uk one at that, spares are hard to find in the UK.. but I challenge you to tell me which buffer is made by cutting a template from the bottom of an Anchor butter tub that gets thicker, glued to an off cut off a biro pen ink well and a 1mm screw with the head cut off ? I should add some handrails were made from this.. Did you ever watch Blue Peter ? if I can be bothered tomorrow I’ll show you how I rebuilt this P2 using a bottle of Spanish Rioja and a match stick. but.. the plasticine comment was in jest.. I should add...playdoh might be better... it sets hard and can be painted. ;-) Seriously solutions are always available, the best ones are usually right around you... I am wondering if invisible earrings maybe the solution here they might be able to push fit inplace of a hex nut, have a 2mm-3mm circle shape ... the bell shape could be filed / trimmed in depth the spike shortened to suite and used in place of the screw from the rear.. 99p on ebay. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/293554200980?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=293554200980&targetid=908661474856&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045859&poi=&campaignid=10195651586&mkgroupid=107296210212&rlsatarget=pla-908661474856&abcId=1145987&merchantid=101766275&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgJv4BRCrARIsAB17JI4WKSLVXWsS_TxF8pGwYTKWt-TIh1-URQFRy4Ta8c7vtoxl8fWT_bEaAqDJEALw_wcB Edited July 10, 2020 by adb968008 8 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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