Young People's view of the hobby

[mdvle]

Id doubt the "required" DCC idea.  

Im one of them American youths.

I can see the thought process, DCC= computers which them youngins always want.

 

Actually, particularly in the US, the thought process goes something along the lines of "how can I best recreate the prototype".

 

For the US, that's DCC which makes multi-unit consists possible, make following the actual rulebook possible - sound the bell before moving, sound the horn / bell at grade crossings, dim the headlight when approaching a station or another train, etc.

 

Which is also why one of the hottest new items is a DCC controller that tries to recreate real train controls instead of being a knob to turn - http://protothrottle.com/

 

Some of this can be applicable even to the UK - running 2 dmu/emu's together, some locos run double headed, you may want to recreate banking in the steam era, ...

 

But thats not what modelling is about.  Its about...building models.

 

No, that's what your definition of modelling is about.

 

The great thing about this hobby is that it encompasses a great number of differing things.  For some people it's about recreating the prototype and its operations, for some its about detailed models, for some its about recreating a scene, and for some its even just watching trains go around in circles.

 

Also, young people arent using Facebook.  Nor are they sharing their creative sides on other social medias.  Thats what forums and messageboards are for.

While it is true Facebook is seeing a decline in the teen years, young people are still using it and it is used for sharing creative things.  As much as I dislike a lot about Facebook there is no escaping the fact that if you ignore Facebook you are missing out on a lot of interesting stuff about this hobby, or even about the history of places that some of us are trying to recreate.

[Talltim]

I found myself wondering if there were any podcasts for modellers and railway enthusiasts the other day, thanks for the link!

I don’t think I qualify as young any more now I’m 31 but I did re-enter the hobby 5 years ago at 26. The spark never died, but it was disposable income, a stable place to live, and the drop in social stigma that allowed me to come out of my shell. I’d always been publicly embarrassed about being into railways as a kid, it wasn’t cool, but now the kind of people I hang around with are really encouraging of hobbies and think it’s awesome that I go and play with steam locos at the weekend and create things in my spare time.

Part of me wonders if social media and being connected via forums etc. actually allows kids to indulge more in their hobby and talk to like minded people. When I was a bairn there was no-one my age who was into it really, or maybe we were all just hiding for fear of being outed?

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Young people just aren't very interested in railway modelling (with the exception of a few very singleminded individuals). If they were into it as a child, all the other things about being in your late teens and twenties (meeting people/partners, going to uni, getting a job, moving out, travelling, being cool (that last might be sneered about, but it is very important for that age group. The type of cool you are varies but the basic urge for acceptance is strong)) push it to the back of the queue and those that are interested either come back to it or discover it as life settles down in their 30s.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Talltim

[The Black Hat]

I'm not sure if that's true. Having exhibited at a show recently at a good venue, being a museum, it was easily mostly all families that were looking at all the layouts. There were some where there was a genuine enthusiast and the questions I was asked varied considerably. Everything from "how best to get started", "what should I get next," "what is digital," through to "How do you manage to wire up the layout to dcc and include all the other electrics for lights, signals, etc..."

 

The families all enjoyed the various layouts, steam still had more of an interest, especially if dcc sound was running. The lights and sound brings a layout more to life and gave me the impression that this is how to compete with the various other toys and electronic gadgets that kids can get today. However, people were able to know this event was on. While there wasn't a link to the show here on RM web and it didn't always show up in traditional media for the hobby, it was on the museums website, on their whats on page and it was on social media. The event was free to get into and while some families would pay to get into an event like this, clubs need to put on a better show in a better venue to attract people. While some now use various colleges its still a case of how trade stands are displayed and how people behave at venues.

 

In order to give the best presentation, people doing doing and manning stalls need to look the best and give the best impression for those watching. I know this will have impacted on other various threads on visiting a venue, but fact is that everyone manning an exhibition should be selling the hobby and showing others how interesting it is, rather than retreating behind layouts and scenes and not speaking to the youngsters and families that show an interest. Giving visitors a positive experience means that they think better of the hobby and perhaps adds the spark of interest that makes them want to start their own.

 

Thankfully, there has been a step change in recent years in the attitudes of some youngsters. A few years ago Geekdom was cool, and remains as such. Now as youngsters are more open to how people want to behave, express themselves and show an interest, it means that creative hobbies are not ridiculed as much. Yes some will still do that, but now many others do not. Being able to wire up layouts, and make engines run yourself now gets more respect than it did before. Certainly its the case compared with 20 years ago during my time at school, but I just stuck with it and did my own thing. As a result, youngsters and younger adults now can start to get into the hobby when chance and funds allow. My concern is that pricing might make that difficult as quality products are still aimed towards those with the disposable income, but its moving in the right direction. It gives them a chance to get something when they can and focus on what they can get rather than the get everything now culture that often exists today.

This topic really has the potential to develop massively as theres many issues and factors that I have tried to touch upon but each has a greater effect on what the hobby could be in the future. As always we tend to think of the immediate links to what we have and what has been before, but in the future many more issues will come into action and how we use these to benefit our hobby and showcase the best of what we have to invite others to take an interest will decide whether this hobby develops more or not.  
 

[The Johnster]

There are a lot of railway and model railway themed groups on Facebook - but unless you look for them you are not going to find them.

 

Sadly I am not sure where the manufacturers stand in all this - people today especially younger people have less disposable income and less space - what are Dapol/Heljan really pushing - O Gauge - this is squarely aimed at the legion of baby boomers with now empty nests and spare cash to burn.  Yes i know there are quite a lot of middle aged people into O gauge now, but I don't think Dapol or Heljan were ever thinking new entrants to model railways.

 

A typical youth isn't going to fall into railway modelling, likely they will have been introduced to it from a family member or a friend - if there are less of them about (which is true) then it is going to mean less people to influence the next generation.  No amount of DCC and flashing light shenanigans is going to simply turn someone into a railway modeller.

 

A typical youth never fell into railway modelling.  I think a big difference between the 'old days', when I started modelling and for several decades after, and the current situation is that many more professional railwaymen are currently involved in the hobby, to the benefit and education of us all; the boundary between enthusiast and railwaymen is beginning to dissolve!

 

Many 'typical youths', whatever you think they are, will enter the hobby from the railway enthusiast/train spotter perspective, in addition to those who have been 'introduced' by family or friends.  And there will always be some whose entry point is an exhibition on a rainy afternoon when they had nothing else to do and wanted to see what the fuss was about, and thought, as they went home afterwards, 'd'ya know, I'd rather like one of those'.

 

Minimal space 0 gauge is well suited to finescale and intimate modelling of very niche prototypes, but there is no reason to assume that these interests are the sole preserve of experienced modellers with disposable income; that is an argument that can be applied to the up and coming RTR input but there will always be those who will be happy to take on the challenge of doing their own stuff.  I agree that Dapol's marketeers are probably not overly concerned with them, but current RTR 0 gauge is vastly superior to the Lima efforts of the late 70s, and gives more than a nod to scale requirements.

[The Johnster]

To a degree yes it is a sad reflection on education, although I hear the massed ranks of the wise opining 'twas ever thus'.  I offer this personal nonecdote though; on Sunday my 18 y/o son who has recently started at Uni mentioned how he was discontented that at school/ college he had been denied the chance to study History because of the way their subject choices were configured in Sixth Form.  He commented: 'I've always loved history, that's why my favourite days-out are to castles and stately homes, and why I watch hours and hours of video on the history channel.' His girlfriend then asked: 'Is this why you can spot former asylums and mental hospitals?'  Which is true - he pointed out at least three on the A6 between Bakewell and Derby!!! 

 

Given the opportunity, nurturing and an access route, enquiring minds will research anything that takes their fancy - I think nowadays we have to realise that 'education' with a capital 'E' won't necessarily do that for young people, it is geared to the essentials for functioning (the 3 Rs) with a generous helping of League Table performance thrown in. 

 

 

Welcome to my world mate; agree with that entire piece - it reads like 'Introduction from the Editor' - brilliant!  Do you do any mentoring???  

 

Why, thank you for your kind comments, Chard; you are very tolerant of an old drunk.  Mentoring is something I feel spectacularly unqualified for, as I suspect most of those who do it for a living are as well...

['CHARD]

Why, thank you for your kind comments, Chard; you are very tolerant of an old drunk.  Mentoring is something I feel spectacularly unqualified for, as I suspect most of those who do it for a living are as well...

 

That has made me chuckle!

[njee20]

I found myself wondering if there were any podcasts for modellers and railway enthusiasts the other day, thanks for the link!

I don’t think I qualify as young any more now I’m 31 but I did re-enter the hobby 5 years ago at 26. The spark never died, but it was disposable income, a stable place to live, and the drop in social stigma that allowed me to come out of my shell. I’d always been publicly embarrassed about being into railways as a kid, it wasn’t cool, but now the kind of people I hang around with are really encouraging of hobbies and think it’s awesome that I go and play with steam locos at the weekend and create things in my spare time.

Part of me wonders if social media and being connected via forums etc. actually allows kids to indulge more in their hobby and talk to like minded people. When I was a bairn there was no-one my age who was into it really, or maybe we were all just hiding for fear of being outed?

You are me AICMFP!

 

Well... I'm 32, and got back into it about 8 years ago, and don't like things that steam, but yes, otherwise exactly the same.

I think people worry too much about what "the youth" want - be it DC/DCC (DCC for me all day long), whether they use Facebook or whatever. It's always been a hobby for older folk (or at least for the last 50 years); due in part to cost and space requirements. I can't see this changing, but I also don't foresee the dying out of the hobby, nor do I think the hobby needs to adapt to what 'young people' want or anything like that, partly because middle aged people trying to make concessions for what "the youth" want is an absolute disaster!

['CHARD]

You are me AICMFP!

 

Oi!  Youth - what's that mean FFS ALLOAFC ?

[njee20]

"And I claim my five pounds", amusingly taken from competitions that used to be run in newspapers decades ago, so certainly not one for the youth

['CHARD]

"And I claim my five pounds", amusingly taken from competitions that used to be run in newspapers decades ago, so certainly not one for the youth

 

OIC

[Lacathedrale]

re: DCC being just flashy lights

 

It will certainly keep younger people engaged - look at what Lego Technic / Mindstorms has done, it basically kept Lego afloat in the 90's. Automation, integration, programming, extension into signalling, block control. Look at what Protothrottle has done in the US.

 

I agree that 'catering to the kids' is awful in general (particularly when the organisations involved don't have the massive marketing/PR departments of Nike or whatever), but if we talk about whether the industry should push modern tech into starter/intro boxes - the answer cannot be to double-down on the old hat.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Steamport Southport]

I heard that the hobby was dying due to a lack of young people. That was in the late 1970s....

 

 

Visiting exhibitions I see many more people than I've ever seen. The same goes for heritage railways.

 

It's no longer the ex-trainspotters reliving the "glory days" of their youth, but it's families, groups of students and young couples.

 

 

 

Jason

[jjb1970]

I agree with those pointing out that the hobby has allegedly been dying for years. I think it is no a much smaller hobby than it was when I was a kid but I also think it is sustainable and there are plenty of new entrants to keep it going.

 

That said I suspect I may differ from some in that I see it as an enjoyable past time and hobby. If kids would rather do something else then I wouldn't try and pull some sort of rank to claim modelling is in some way more worthy than other hobbies. If you ever observe people playing computer games take a look at their reflexes, speed of thought and coordination, it's pretty impressive. I think it is very easy to read more into hobbies than we should.

[trustytrev]

Hello,

       I have maybe misrepresented "yoof" in my remark. The person asking the question was  in her mid twenties at the time(last year).

trustytrev.

[The Johnster]

I tend to regard DCC as an older person's thing, largely because it needs a quantum step up in the level of disposable income needed and the ability to maintain the commitment; you must opt for it or DC very early in your modelling career and there is no going back.  It is beyond doubt 'the future', and there are 2 reasons that I do use it on my layout.  Firstly, I'm only a poor pensioner and can't afford it, secondly, my layout is very simple and DC wiring and control allow me to make all the movements the timetable required without a lot of wiring or switching to maintain, and thirdly, I do not really understand it and cannot be bothered to learn (not being bothered is not an exclusively teenage attribute, I can not bother rings around any teenager, any time).  

 

Time was, about 30 odd years ago and with DCC already available, when my prediction for the future would have been predicated on better battery technology and radio control of locomotives powered by an on-board rechargeable power source, with no power needing to be carried by the track at all, but I was well off target on this one.  At the same time, I predicted that mobile phones would evolve into simple disposable card communication devices; you would have a personal phone number and buy replacement card phones in newsagents, supermarkets, or petrol stations, where they would be activated by the checkout and last until the credit ran out, when you threw them away and bought another one.

 

So my predictions have not proved all that reliable, and new ones should clearly not be taken any notice of by anybody at any time for any reason.  That said, I predict that the hobby will continue to be as healthy as it currently is, which is more or less the same as it always was, but that when the manufacturers stop offering DC locos, which they will, and sooner rather than later, the entry demographic may change to a generally older bracket with more disposable income; disposable income is the most important factor here, not age or enthusiasm.

Edited November 7, 2018 by The Johnster

[Steamport Southport]

I can't see them not selling DC models as most people prefer their own choice of DCC rather than factory fitted modules.

 

DCC fitted locomotives seem to have disappeared apart from DCC Sound ones.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

The other wild card in the equation is cyber modelling, which is continually improving.  There will be little call to build actual models or layouts to run them on when a suitably realistic cyber universe can be constructed and viewed through your 3D glasses, but the imagery is not quite there yet.

[jjb1970]

Something that manufacturers could do to make DCC more user friendly is to fit easy access sockets allowing you to fit chips without removing the body. Bachmann showed how it should be done on the Class 350 many years ago. I have a few HO models with good arrangements. Removing the body of some models (hello Heljan 33, Bachmann 4CEP.....) is a nightmare. Although these days you'd expect something a lot less intrusive than a DCC chip.

[Corbs]

Something that manufacturers could do to make DCC more user friendly is to fit easy access sockets allowing you to fit chips without removing the body. Bachmann showed how it should be done on the Class 350 many years ago. I have a few HO models with good arrangements. Removing the body of some models (hello Heljan 33, Bachmann 4CEP.....) is a nightmare. Although these days you'd expect something a lot less intrusive than a DCC chip.

Something like a slot for a micro SD card...?

 

Can fit oodles of data onto those things.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Corbs

[bike2steam]

I shouldn't put too much dependence on what the young think, many soon change their mind for the better when they mature, learn more, and can make up there own mind instead of 'peer-pressure'.

Yeah, I'll get my hat!!!

[trustytrev]

Hello,

      DCC in locomotive tenders appears to be getting more common instead of trying to cram them into the locomotive itself. An improvement I think.

Did a younger person come up with that idea?

trustytrev.

[Coryton]

The other wild card in the equation is cyber modelling, which is continually improving.  There will be little call to build actual models or layouts to run them on when a suitably realistic cyber universe can be constructed and viewed through your 3D glasses, but the imagery is not quite there yet.

 

Maybe you're right...

 

But I don't think so. I really don't.

 

Is the reason that people choose to buy or build rolling stock, track, scenic items etc. and build them into a layout because the fidelity of virtual railways isn't good enough yet?

 

They are two very different things and satisfy very different needs/desires.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Maybe you're right...

 

But I don't think so. I really don't.

 

Is the reason that people choose to buy or build rolling stock, track, scenic items etc. and build them into a layout because the fidelity of virtual railways isn't good enough yet?

 

They are two very different things and satisfy very different needs/desires.

I agree with your point about cyber reality.  However, perhaps the reason that people make their own models is that they also enjoy doing something creative.

 

Why else do people paint, make pots, join choirs, play musical instruments, tinker with classic cars, etc. People also enjoy tactile objects which is one reason they buy/collect models. 

[Steamport Southport]

I know quite a few gamers and you would think that computer gaming would have killed off table top games and board games. But apparently they have never been more popular.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[jjb1970]

People still want a tactile experience, there has been something of a resurgence in the popularity of vinyl as a music carrier despite it's technical limitations as people like the wider experience of playing music on a record player. Ditto games, models, cameras which retain a full suite of manual controls etc. However I suspect that people like these experiences as being additional to the modern digital alternatives, not so much as an alternative.