Dungrange Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 The British designed and assembled, Signatrak ACE 2 is easily as good as many of the usual German/Austrian/US systems, and less than half the price of an ECoS, with a similar size, colour display screen, showing all 28 functions. Mine does all I ask of it with a very short learning curve and almost no compatibility problems. It just lacks some of the more recent connectivity gadgets to laptops and phones (in development) and is not wireless (yet) but has additional hand held units as an inexpensive extra. I just do not understand why so few on here give it the plaudits it deserves when recommending a DCC system. Check it out on https://www.signatrak.co.uk/products/ace-dcc-controller-accessories/dcs2044-ace-15-48 I'm assuming that the Signatrak ACE is not highlighted frequently because the number of users is probably relatively limited compared to some other brands. I bought an ACE-2 earlier this year, primarily because of the ease of accessing all 28 functions and being able to name each button rather than remembering what F21 does and then which keys to actually access the function. The ACE-2 just seemed much easier to understand for a beginner and I agree that the learning curve is relatively short. The lack of connectivity to a PC interface (running JMRI) along with the LocoNet capability (at the moment) will probably put some off, but I figured that these upgrades will probably have been issued by the time I actually get a layout built that requires the extra capabilities. Two of you guys mentioned the Signatrak ACE 2 controller, which is very interesting. Just watched a video and I like the control options you have (e.g. handsets and all funtions on one screen). And it's a bigger screen than the tiny smartphone display ;-) I'm happy enough with my Signatrak ACE2: it does what I need at the moment - I just don't have any other DCC controller to compare it to. The only negative point that I would make about the Signatrak ACE 2 would be that in its current form, I'm not sure it's particularly well suited to a large multi-operator (ie club) layout. The additional 'Driver' handsets (I've only bought one and haven't actually used it yet) can only access five functions (F0 to F4), so if you need to access all 28 functions (eg sound locomotives), then the locomotive has to be controlled from the command station if you want to access all sounds. As such, although you can have five operators (the operator at the main console and four operators with handheld 'Drivers') the fact that only the main console can access all 28 functions and the main console also has to be used to assign locomotives to each 'Driver' (ie the 'Driver' can't take control of a new locomotive independently) means that there may be better options for a club layout. However, for home use, where I'll typically be the only operator, I have no issues with the Signatrak ACE 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I note that there are two major DCC suppliers not mentioned in the OP's list: Digitrax and NCE. Would it be worth trying either or both of these as well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 I note that there are two major DCC suppliers not mentioned in the OP's list: Digitrax and NCE. Would it be worth trying either or both of these as well? Lenz? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Lenz? Keith THREE major DCC suppliers ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Thanks again everybody for all your help. Here's the main and prog test tracks, short cables from controllers to fishplates with no extensions. I noticed some people had issues with e.g. HST TTS being responsive only in one direction, which could be fixed by sending them to Hornby. This is not the case here, as the Class 67 TTS loco did run well with all controllers, except for the PIKO. I wasn't aware that the E-Z pumps out such a high voltage, thanks for the info. Also, I've ordered the suggested DCC bus terminator filters/snubbers; will give it a try. Two of you guys mentioned the Signatrak ACE 2 controller, which is very interesting. Just watched a video and I like the control options you have (e.g. handsets and all funtions on one screen). And it's a bigger screen than the tiny smartphone display ;-) I'll wait for the PIKO return and refund to be completed and then see what's happening... Cheers everybody! This many controllers cannot be defective with the same problems, especially as the flickering lights issue remains when you change controllers. These are all base stations with fair to excellent reputations, and very few of your sorts of problems being reported by other users. Until you try testing with the wires connected direct to the straight rails and not via rail joiners and points you're just wasting your and your retailers' time. I suggest you go to a retailer who has a range of DCC equipment to demonstrate, or go to the Warley exhibition at the NEC, which is only a month away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 This thread might become useful as a list of all DCC command station manufacturers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 THREE major DCC suppliers ... ..............Er, Amongst our weapons are........don't mention the comfy chair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 Don't mention the DCC inquisition! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 As mentioned a few posts above, you have had issues consistent across different systems which all have a good reputation, so it would be worthwhile investigating something else. There is a thread on here (which is currently quite active so you should find it in "View New Content") mocking the old sales pitch that "DCC only needs 2 wires". It has since been proven that if you wire a layout up this way, it will run very poorly. DCC needs a nice clean electrical connection between command station & decoder. Many of us learnt this before we started wiring our layouts & have ensured we have always had a clean low-resistance connection between command station & track. I don't trust point blades or rail joiners for electrical connection...ever. Many others on here are the same but some have got away with being less scrupulous. Here is a test you can perform: Remove your controller/command station. Replace it with a piece of wire. Remove all locos from the track & with a multimeter, measure the resistance across the rails at various places. It should be as low as possible. Zero would be nice but in reality, this is impossible to achieve. I can be low enough for the meter to register zero & that is the target. I do not know when you would start to see problems, but would expect it to be somewhere around 0.1-0.25 ohms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomMcG Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) Hi again, on my quest for a working controller I took the plunge and tried the ECoS - twice... First unit arrived with a tilted/off-centred TFT, so it went straight back to the box and back. Second unit had a faulty PSU, making odd sounds of imminent death. At least I could try this one on the locos - same issues with the LokSound decoders. Yes, the main culprits appear to be RailCom & Co. But, finally (!), I've got a controller that works without issues: the Sig-na Trak ACE-2 you guys recommended... No flickering lights, no buzzing, silent & strong PSU, suits all my needs, all locos recognised without issues, no fiddling with cables/voltage/capacitors etc. Thanks for pushing me in that direction! Cheers everyone, Tom Edit: typo Edited November 3, 2018 by TomMcG 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi again, on my quest for a working controller I took the plunge and tried the ECoS - twice... First unit arrived with a tilted/off-centred TFT, so it went straight back to the box and back. Second unit had a faulty PSU, making odd sounds of imminent death. At least I could try this one on the locos - same issues with the LokSound decoders. Yes, the main culprits appear to be RailCom & Co. But, finally (!), I've got a controller that works without issues: the Sig-na Trak ACE-2 you guys recommended... No flickering lights, no buzzing, silent & strong PSU, suits all my needs, all locos recognised without issues, no fiddling with cables/voltage/capacitors etc. Thanks for pushing me in that direction! Cheers everyone, Tom Edit: typo Thats good to hear TomMcG. The beauty of the forum its that everybody has there views and tend to push what suits them leaving you with the options which suite you ! There is no right or wrong system its just down to personal preferences and am glad for you that you have found yours with a little help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi again, on my quest for a working controller I took the plunge and tried the ECoS - twice... First unit arrived with a tilted/off-centred TFT, so it went straight back to the box and back. Second unit had a faulty PSU, making odd sounds of imminent death. At least I could try this one on the locos - same issues with the LokSound decoders. Yes, the main culprits appear to be RailCom & Co. Cheers everyone, Tom Edit: typo Where exactly were these systems from? (not company specific but e-bay or second hand from shop etc.) The problems you have had are definitely not to do with the units themselves that you have tried, else everyone one else would have them. Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 My concern would be that despite having a system that now 'works' the actual fault hasn't been rectified and there is every possibility that it will return on this new system. It isn't realistic to think that systems made by major manufacturers all have a common fault that is only manifesting itself on one layout ergo the fault is within layout and has merely been masked to return at a later date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomMcG Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Both ECoS units were bought brand new from two different large UK model railway retailers. The flickering lights issues appeared with the LokSound decoders only on all units using RailCom etc. (Roco, PIKO, ECoS). They were not present on EZ, Prodigy Advanced 2 and ACE-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 I would have switched off Railcom in all of the units that you had the 'problem' with before I condemned any off them - did you try that? But you are happy now with a 'working' system, just that you don't know what the actual issue is/was and it could well return at a later date Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 I would have switched off Railcom in all of the units that you had the 'problem' with before I condemned any off them - did you try that? I recommended that course of action on page 1 (post 8) of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Nigel, I think your sage advice was ignored Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcwilt Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Both ECoS units were bought brand new from two different large UK model railway retailers. The flickering lights issues appeared with the LokSound decoders only on all units using RailCom etc. (Roco, PIKO, ECoS). They were not present on EZ, Prodigy Advanced 2 and ACE-2. Which is why those DCC command stations allow for turning off the RailCom support. Did you try that first? Frederick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 In common with you Iain, Keith and others, I'd quite like to know what is going on with this case. Yes, its "solved" at one level with the ACE, which is good because Tom now has a system he is happy with. But, I am puzzled as to why ESU decoders (maker who pushes RailCom fairly heavily) appear to have problems with systems which generate RailCom signals, including those made by ESU. (I do have an idea why this might be the case, but without some further testing, including turning off RailCom on the problem command stations. Its around what circuitry to stop flicker might be present (or not present) on the wiring to the lights in the locos. But its just an idea. ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
O-Gauge-Phil Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 JMRI is excellent. If you haven’t tried it, download it free, it makes reading and writing so easy and intuitive and all you need is a serial interface with whatever controller you decide on. I’ve had really good results from Loksound decoders. Best of luck stick with it, DCC is marvellous. Phillip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomMcG Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 If I remember correctly, the z/Z21 app allowed to switch on/off RailCom; turning it off didn't fix the issue. Assuming the voltage of 18v could be the problem, I tried the black Z21 (also RailCom off) - same thing. Gave up on the PIKO when it didn't recognise the Class 47 TTS, before checking RailCom. The ECoS... well, maybe I'm just unlucky (Monday units?). Now the problem is solved for me, as I don't need more/better/advanced features than DCC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcwilt Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 In common with you Iain, Keith and others, I'd quite like to know what is going on with this case. But, I am puzzled as to why ESU decoders (maker who pushes RailCom fairly heavily) appear to have problems with systems which generate RailCom signals, including those made by ESU. (I do have an idea why this might be the case, but without some further testing, including turning off RailCom on the problem command stations. Its around what circuitry to stop flicker might be present (or not present) on the wiring to the lights in the locos. But its just an idea. ). Indeed. I have used a number of different command stations (Digitrax, NCE, Roco, Digikeijs) and many different brands of decoders. I never experienced any of the problems described by the OP. Very strange. Frederick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Possibly totally unrelated RF noise from Powerline adapters. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Another tick for the ACE - accords completely with my experience - no trouble, no fuss, easy to set up and easy to use, for less than half the price of an ECoS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 We use 2 Z21s in our club. A white and a black one , never had any of the issues the OP mentions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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