The Bigbee Line Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 What is a good tool I want to use the ferrules. What is a good value tool. I see some over £150..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2018 What are yoiu using the ferrules on, and what are the wires going into? I use them a lot at work in Ceeform mains connectors but we've never bothered crimping them, just put the ferrule on the end of the wire before putting it into the screw terminal. Andi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted October 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 17, 2018 What is a good tool I want to use the ferrules. What is a good value tool. I see some over £150..... Something like this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-25-6mm-Bootlace-Ferrule-Hand-Wire-Cord-End-Crimper-Crimp-Crimping-Tool-Pliers/223154624566?epid=23020136056&hash=item33f50d5836:g:GGAAAOSwonJbo-Hl:rk:8:pf:0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 Something like this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-25-6mm-Bootlace-Ferrule-Hand-Wire-Cord-End-Crimper-Crimp-Crimping-Tool-Pliers/223154624566?epid=23020136056&hash=item33f50d5836:g:GGAAAOSwonJbo-Hl:rk:8:pf:0 Thanks. Will order one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigo Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Must admit that I have simply squeezed the ferrule with a pair of pliers, keeps them on until they get squashed in the connectors. Only last night I noticed these crimpers being used on Big Clive's youtube channel at 5:05 minutes Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 Crimping tool came in the post today. Quite impressed with the effect.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 Crimping tool came in the post today. Quite impressed with the effect.. 002 crimp.JPG That's good, pleased you liked it; nice Crimp! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I bought one of these from Rapid's eBay shop. They work very well. Personally I'm not too keen on that crimp in post #6: those serrations look to me like they could be a bit weak and prone to failure under a fairly low bending load. The CK Tools one gives a uniform squeeze/crush crimp that slips neatly in to the terminal block; not had any failures to date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 It looks like a smaller ferrule would be better with that wire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 It looks like a smaller ferrule would be better with that wire. Thanks, that was just using a ferrule to hand on a handy piece of wire. In this case I bent the wire over to double it. We'll see how they fare in operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I bought one of these from Rapid's eBay shop. They work very well. Personally I'm not too keen on that crimp in post #6: those serrations look to me like they could be a bit weak and prone to failure under a fairly low bending load. The CK Tools one gives a uniform squeeze/crush crimp that slips neatly in to the terminal block; not had any failures to date. Thanks for that. I think it looks 'more agressive' than it actually is, as the ferrule did not need an immense amount of squeezing. Proof of the pudding and all that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 Thanks for that. I think it looks 'more agressive' than it actually is, as the ferrule did not need an immense amount of squeezing. Proof of the pudding and all that... It'll look different when you use the correct size Ferrule for the Wire being used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium terrysoham Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 I’m not a fan of crimping. The problem is that crimping flattens the ferrule and increases the “width” to the extent that, unless you choose your screw type terminal carefully, the crimped ferrule cannot be inserted into the hole in the terminal. Be aware the some of the MERG kits suffer from this issue as the terminals that come in their kits are too small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 The problem is that crimping flattens the ferrule and increases the “width” to the extent that, unless you choose your screw type terminal carefully, the crimped ferrule cannot be inserted into the hole in the terminal. The particular Crimp Tool under discussion produces a "Square" finish so the width shouldn't increase. Be aware the some of the MERG kits suffer from this issue as the terminals that come in their kits are too small. That is more of an issue with MERG Kits than an issue with the Crimp Tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium terrysoham Posted October 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2018 The particular Crimp Tool under discussion produces a "Square" finish so the width shouldn't increase. That is more of an issue with MERG Kits than an issue with the Crimp Tool. Thanks. That sounds a reasonable explanation. Just a pity after several years of MERG membership that’s the first time using a crimping tool to give a square section has been mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Thanks. That sounds a reasonable explanation. Just a pity after several years of MERG membership that’s the first time using a crimping tool to give a square section has been mentioned. Terry The action of this crimper squeezes the crimp evenly on all 4 sides, I was most impressed by the action. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 On domestic and model railway wiring I prefer to fit a tight fitting ferrule and squash it with the clamping screw of the connector rather than pre crimping the ferrule. Many years motor trade experience led me to solder connections rather than rely on crimping as I saw so many faults caused by loose crimped connectors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Interesting topic, I see them used a lot at work supposedly because unconstrained multistrand wire can flatten and become loose over time and she to equipment vibration. Not quite the same as bouncing a layout around in the back of a van a few times every year, but still why I try to solder connections wherever possible ( something the Electrical Engineers at work call "wet work", and what I usually end up doing because nobody else knows how....). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff park Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 The danger with soldering anything where the wire may move is that the wire will break, or at least individual cores will, where it goes from soldered to not-soldered. If soldering a wire which is then going into some form of screw terminal or similar, fix the wire so it cannot move about. An alternative is heat shrink from the soldered part to some way down the unsoldered. This means any flexing is in the unsoldered, flexible length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted October 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2018 If you add solder to a wire, and then put it into a screw terminal (which I used to do as it seemed neat and simple), the solder will gradually flow away and the connection will become loose. Crimping, or wire-wrapping will, over time, form a cold weld, so the joint actually improves with age. Screws can loosen with vibration though. It's a mine field trying to find the best joint for a particular situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 IME if you tighten the screw connector on to a soldered end of wire too much, it can crush the soldered end so much that it breaks in two. A crimped ferrule will 'give' a bit as the screw is tightened, and allow the individual cores to rearrange themselves as the pressure increases, making the whole assemblage a bit more resilient and reducing this risk. Up to a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted October 27, 2018 Author Share Posted October 27, 2018 Quite an interesting topic with, as usual, some differing points of view. I was talking to a work colleague, not a modeller, who started with the NCB working on maintaining machinery rather than pure mining itself. His view on connections was to avoid solder and use crimps every time. That is from baby ones as we would use up to 1000 volt cables where the crimping tool is hydraulic because of the pressure required. I had the misfortune to have an ETH cable pull out on a loco and had to fix a new crimp on the short end of the cable that disappeared into the nose end of the loco. B@stard job, plus the orange boxes you see are aluminium alloy and all the bolts shear off....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 A lot of engineering goes into making reliable connections. My favorite is wire wrap. The wire is wrapped round a square pin and the wire cold-welds at the corners of the pin. You don't see it much these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) A lot of engineering goes into making reliable connections. My favorite is wire wrap. The wire is wrapped round a square pin and the wire cold-welds at the corners of the pin. You don't see it much these days. Used to be the favoured termination on telephone exchange terminal blocks. At one time I had to inspect them! Keith Edit: Faulty ones were soldered to get a good connexion Edited October 28, 2018 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted October 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2018 Wire Wrap used to be important for space vehicles and satellites because the wire wrap did not trap any air. Soldered jounts could literally explode in the vacuum of space because of air pockets in the joint. OK, not important for model railways, but interesting nevertheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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