A New Hope - Great Model Railway Challenge benefits

[PatB]

To be honest, I feel like there are a few people in the hobby who in theory want more people getting involved, but in practice don't. They want the hobby to keep going, but they'd rather these new folk quietly provide injections of cash and physical labour and otherwise defer 100% to the Will of the Elders when it comes to what they model and how they do it.

 

Obviously these people are in a minority, but it's that kind of attitude, where anything other than finescale scratchbuilt grubby black locomotives running through yellowish-green scenery is not doing it right, that puts people off. It's the same for any hobby. In gaming, they call them the stop-having-fun guys.

 

It's not just model railways. Here in WA the creative arts run on much the same basis. Much lip service about getting more people involved but no effort to offer what new recruits might actually want instead of what the Elders decree should be interested in.

[TheSignalEngineer]

It's not just model railways. Here in WA the creative arts run on much the same basis. Much lip service about getting more people involved but no effort to offer what new recruits might actually want instead of what the Elders decree should be interested in.

Sounds like many tennis clubs. Yes you can join but woe betide anyone who might impinge on the court time of Peter the President's four. As for getting into the team forget it, you would displace poor old Freddy who has been here since 1958 and has captained the men's 1st for the last 24 seasons.

(Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty).

[Robin2]

Sounds like many tennis clubs. 

That brings to mind another less-attractive reality of life. Some people can join clubs (any sort of club) and quickly worm their way into acceptance. Others who join remain on the periphery and existing members seldom make much effort to involve them even though there may be no active objection to the newcomer.

 

To be honest it is hard to know how much of the "fault" lies with the newcomer and how much with the existing members.

 

In my very limited experience a newcomer who offers to help is making a good start. Maybe it's the difference between "I want to learn" and "I expect you to teach me".

 

 

And let's not overlook the small percentage whose only purpose for joining an organization seems to be to find fault with they way they are treated.

 

...R

Edited October 27, 2018 by Robin2

[Zomboid]

Clubs are often quite cliquey and full of petty rivalries, and as such it's difficult for a total outsider to get fully integrated without some kind of other lever (such as knowing one of the members in a different context), or someone reaching out. And if you're naturally not that outgoing, which I suspect a lot of us aren't, it gets even harder...

 

This isn't just train clubs, it seems to be pretty universal human behaviour.

[Robin2]

Clubs are often quite cliquey and full of petty rivalries,

I have come to realize in later life that I don't pick up those signals at all - and in some cases that seems to be a benefit.

 

Also, I think I was 50 before I realized that the real meaning of "yacht club" is "we like talking about boats" and "rugby club" means "we like talking about rugby" etc.

 

...R

[Jol Wilkinson]

In this discussion about a “new hope” for the future of the hobby,  perhaps it is worth reflecting on how new “entrants”  make a start. Unless you have a lost yearning from an earlier time in your life to take up modelling, most people’s first contact with model railways will probably be at a local show, perhaps on a family visit. When they leave the show, what do they take away? Of those who visit the numerous shows held each year and who might feel inspired to "have a go" , what is their first step. Importantly, how easy is it for them to know how to take that first step? Like the GMRC, when the series finishes , there is nothing tangible to which the potential modeller can refer unless they start to search online, seek out  some publications, etc. Of those 1M plus watching the show, how many will be inspired to look further and if they do, how can they do it? 

 

What can be done to nurture this small sprouting seed of interest.  Regrettably there is no national body representing our hobby (comparable to the NRMA in the USA) where someone can turn for a ready overview, or which could coordinate some sort of beginner’s introduction material. The major commercial players are in direct competition with each other and may not see it as their responsibility – even though they might directly benefit. Is it down to the media? They too are in competition and already do produce their own material aimed at the beginner, but that is only relevant when they are past the first hurdle of knowing where to look.

 

Perhaps what is needed is a very low cost publication available at as many shows as possible for the potentially interested . It  could even be included FOC with family tickets.  Looking at a couple of the mainstream magazines recently, even the advertising by retailers and manufacturers gives an introduction to what is available and at what cost. So would advertising be practical to fund such a publication? Add to that some articles on layouts of various “beginner” or easy designs and a few introduction articles on the basics such as simple baseboards,  track laying and wiring. A slip in sheet with local area club details might also help.

 

Just an idea, which might spark off some others. The main obstacle would be having a coordinating organisation. Perhaps the CMRA might consider it for their widespread member clubs. Perhaps Warners, with their publishing and exhibition activities could consider it.

[Lacathedrale]

Games Workshop was the most mercenary of wargames companies, but during it's 90's heyday where every schoolchild (including myself) got involved with it, they had two leaflets available at every shop: how to get started painting, and an overview of the relevant product ranges. I can't help but think that was a major factor in many kids who would have otherwise been intimidated or stonewalled getting involved. That said I think there is alot in common with GW and model railways - both very uncool but with devoted fans; the diffrence is that with model railways the people involved tend to be of the older generation and thus even less cool to the kids.

 

The 2mm society is in my humble opinion a real beacon of light - although it's not perfect it has embraced modern technology, practises, etc. over and over again to ensure it remains contemporary - in order to properly engage with new fans, you need to 'speak their language' - and the language of internet interaction and commerce is a wild gulf away from sending SAEs to deepest shropshire for a dodgy photocopied price list, or submitted a letter to the editor. I'm not saying that it's better, but unless there is twitter and instagram, live streams and youtube channels, twitch creative videos, paypal and automated checkouts, there is always going to be a degree of friction and intertia between old hands and new adherants.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Jol Wilkinson]

One difference is that GW has it's own retail outlets and therefore a direct interface with customers and somewhere to organise and hold training. None of the manufacturers/suppliers have that, although they could possible organise something through dealers/agents.. Given that these could have a relationship with local clubs, then they could do something together. One downside is the decreasing number of high street model shops.

[Lacathedrale]

Yes I don't disagree - I was just illustrating that a 10-15 page leaflet (which inadvertently was an advert but didnt have an overt thousand pictures of RTR logos buffering 2 pages of content) was available FOC and did wonders. I think the more salient free-market point in that post was that companies, guilds, groups, societies, exhibitions need to embrace new technologies and methods of communication if they want to accelerate with the expectations of a younger ilk - or just be satisfied that they can't or won't and not bemoan the contraction of the hobby because of it.

[Barry O]

From interactions with people at the Leeds Show today

1 those who have seen it are storing copies for their children

2 seen as positive approach

3 needs to see the "editors" build a simple layout from baseboard materials up..

 

Lots of children today enthused in model railways.

 

Baz

[john new]

Games Workshop was the most mercenary of wargames companies, but during it's 90's heyday where every schoolchild (including myself) got involved with it, they had two leaflets available at every shop: how to get started painting, and an overview of the relevant product ranges. I can't help but think that was a major factor in many kids who would have otherwise been intimidated or stonewalled getting involved. That said I think there is alot in common with GW and model railways - both very uncool but with devoted fans; the difference is that with model railways the people involved tend to be of the older generation and thus even less cool to the kids.

 

The 2mm society is in my humble opinion a real beacon of light - although it's not perfect it has embraced modern technology, practises, etc. over and over again to ensure it remains contemporary - in order to properly engage with new fans, you need to 'speak their language' - and the language of internet interaction and commerce is a wild gulf away from sending SAEs to deepest shropshire for a dodgy photocopied price list, or submitted a letter to the editor. I'm not saying that it's better, but unless there is twitter and instagram, live streams and youtube channels, twitch creative videos, paypal and automated checkouts, there is always going to be a degree of friction and inertia between old hands and new adherents.

The other snag is finding volunteers able to do these modern set-up tasks, even if the Committee/Board (or whatever its called in XYZ Society), accepts it needs to be done and the existing role holder is prepared to accept the changes.

[Pacific231G]

I don't know how relevant this is but I think it might be. If not just skip over it.

 

in the 1990s I got to know three very different local drama groups .

One took itself very seriously indeed (far more seriously than most professionals in my experience)  Their criteria for their own success seemed to only be the final quality of their productions rather than the value they gave to their members. It seemed that most new members, unless they were either very talented or prepared to dedicate themselves totally for several years, never got near the stage and were more likely to end up just selling tickets or serving behind the bar. If people did show talent in one area, lighting or sound say, they would be very unlikely to get to do anything else  

 

At the opposite end of the spectrum  was a very local group in a small country town. The same two people directed all their productions, even though they knew very little about the basics of stagecraft  (they'd never even heard of "blocking" - working out the actors' basic moves on stage)  I doubt if they ever raised their bar in terms of the quality they achieved. Maybe that didn't matter. The  members seemed to enjoy themselves, audiences were mostly just their friends and families but I think most of them had been in the group for years and there was very little new blood. 

 

The third group encouraged its members, especially new ones, to get involved from the start and to stretch themselves way beyond what they thought they could achieve  if they thought they'd only be painting scenery for several years they were often surprised to find themselves cast in leading roles after a couple of productions. There were three productions each year so, although everyone couldn't be in all of them, opportunities came round pretty quickly and, when they weren't acting or directing, everyone took  their turn at lighting, sound, stage managing, construction and everything else.

That level of constant activity probably made it quite hard for cliques to develop as it needed all the talents of the whole group to maintain it.

 

The group took the theatre seriously,  avoided the usual am-dram cliches of Francis Durbridge and endless light comedies,  and looked for interesting and dramatically challenging  works to put on. Its productions were an order of magnitude better than the second group and, though not as polished as the first group, enabled a far higher proportion of people coming in with a possibly rather vague interest in theatre to develop into very competent practitioners. Several went on to become professional actors.  This group was in an area with a fairly hight level of churn so people might only be members for a year or so but would still be able to achieve a great deal and nobody expected a lifelong commitment.

 

Clearly railway modelling is very different from theatrical production. Apart from anythng else it's far more llkely to be an individual effort and isn't usually under he same time constraints as a production schedule. Nevertheless I've seen something akin to these three groups reflected in many other activities from photographic societies to sports groups so maybe it does have wider relevance,

 

I think the urgent question is how our hobby can exploit the opportunity that GMRC seems to have dropped in its lap.  A lot of people are likely to be taking an interest in railway modelling but, unless that interest has an accessible outlet, it probably won't last very long.  Could MRCs make themselves more available to the wider public beyond their own committed mememberships? Is there scope for courses or workshops, rather than just open days and exhibitons?  Could more be done around exhibitions to enable hands on experience - and not just for chlildren, Most people attracted by GMRC will probably be adults but they may need a way in and they won't all be middle aged men.  There is definitely scope for some new thinking.  

Edited October 28, 2018 by Pacific231G

[wombatofludham]

The idea of a model railway group running workshops is a good one, although the "tutors" need the right interpersonal skills and need to be ego-free.  The village Art Group which I used to belong to do workshops open to anyone from time to time, learning skills and techniques whilst intruducing the concept of "art club" to people who might have felt intimidated.  It's increased membership and got more people into art.

I'm sure given the right people something similar could work for a Model Railway club

[Vistisen]

I wonder about having a 'teaching' layout that can be used at exhibitions. I envisage a simple tail-chaser that at one end is bare baseboards with nothing but track and at the other end is fully modelled with all scenery in place. with the space in between showing different stages of the building process. chicken net -> paper maché-> painted-> scenic grass-> detailed scenery, (tufts, hedges, trees etc) The idea is to show how a new starter can go about producing a finished layout. buy showing the stages of development, It might persuade a family into starting a project to make a 'real' layout. Club layout look magnificent, but in the same way that I can look at a piece of finished art and want to have a go at painting but have no clue of how to start. 

[john new]

I wonder about having a 'teaching' layout that can be used at exhibitions. I envisage a simple tail-chaser that at one end is bare baseboards with nothing but track and at the other end is fully modelled with all scenery in place. with the space in between showing different stages of the building process. chicken net -> paper maché-> painted-> scenic grass-> detailed scenery, (tufts, hedges, trees etc) The idea is to show how a new starter can go about producing a finished layout. buy showing the stages of development, It might persuade a family into starting a project to make a 'real' layout. Club layout look magnificent, but in the same way that I can look at a piece of finished art and want to have a go at painting but have no clue of how to start. 

This is a good idea, and I have seen it done but not recently. It is an idea I have already had, therefore it possible you may see something resembling the suggestion on the SLS stand at Alexandra Palace. Not enough time to do anything other than GMRC related posters before Warley.

[Chrisr40]

Bit of a tangent but I was watching one of the obscure satellite channels and Bob Ross was making one of his paintings. He is so calming but utterly engaging to watch that it got me to thinking wouldn't it be good to have an equivalent in this hobby. The sort of person like Tony Hart who was so talented it made you want to pull your hair out but you couldn't help being engrossed by the process of him making simple materials into a masterpiece. How about a model railways version of vision on where you try to get your weathering in to the gallery by pretending you are only seven years old.

[Jol Wilkinson]

What I believe we perhaps need to remember is that, while TV shows and local exhibitions may attract and enthuse potential beginners, they need something that will readily take them forward to the next stage, that of actually getting involved. They may have limited time at a show to investigate "what next" especially if attending with family. Likewise, they might suffer from information overload (from one individual) if they spent too much time at a "demo" display. Some sort of take away pack (see Post 110) might help them mover the initial hurdles.

 

If you join the EMGS or Scalefour Societies you receive a new membership pack(others may do the same) to get you underway. Would not complete beginners benefit from something like this? Clubs could put something together to handout at shows, but a more nationally "sponsored" publication might provide a  wider view of the various options within the hobby. If some of the suggestions above came to fruition, they could form part of a directory of available material, etc.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Sounds like many tennis clubs. Yes you can join but woe betide anyone who might impinge on the court time of Peter the President's four. As for getting into the team forget it, you would displace poor old Freddy who has been here since 1958 and has captained the men's 1st for the last 24 seasons.

(Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty).

 

We have a local cricket club like that. I did not stay for long!

[Joseph_Pestell]

I wonder about having a 'teaching' layout that can be used at exhibitions. I envisage a simple tail-chaser that at one end is bare baseboards with nothing but track and at the other end is fully modelled with all scenery in place. with the space in between showing different stages of the building process. chicken net -> paper maché-> painted-> scenic grass-> detailed scenery, (tufts, hedges, trees etc) The idea is to show how a new starter can go about producing a finished layout. buy showing the stages of development, It might persuade a family into starting a project to make a 'real' layout. Club layout look magnificent, but in the same way that I can look at a piece of finished art and want to have a go at painting but have no clue of how to start. 

 

Our local model shop (long gone now sadly) used to have just such a display. Not a full layout but a diorama that was probably only 3' x 1'. Very effective.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Even with the help of GMRC, it may be difficult to get people through the door of an exhibition or clubroom.

 

The FFMF (for which strangely there is no UK equivalent) encourages it's clubs once a year to go out and do some railway modelling activity in venues such as local shopping malls and libraries.

[Robin2]

 go out and do some railway modelling activity in venues such as local shopping malls and libraries.

That sounds like an interesting idea. However I suspect libraries are (unfortunately) past their use-by date.

 

It may also help if there was scope for newcomers to buy something to get them started - having invested a little the person might give it some thought when they get home, rather than forgetting all about it. However with so few model shops about that may be difficult to arrange.

 

Another thought ...

 

The usual "starter set" is an oval of track which occupies a fair amount of space for relatively little visual impact - especially for an adult purchaser. Maybe there should be small end-to-end starter packs that could be erected on a shelf in a few minutes. A simple printed backscene and maybe one or two low-relief buildings (kits?) could set it off very nicely.

 

...R

[Neil]

It's natural, i suppose, to look at what we as individuals or clubs can do to capitalise on the interest generated by the Great Model Railway Challenge but we may be fooling ourselves that we have more significance than we actually do. I think it's quite likely that if hooked by the program the first port of call for the aspiring entrant will be their local model shop or its on-line equivalent. It would be interesting to know if the footfall has increased over the duration of the series or if there has been an increase in web based trade. If there's been an upsurge of interest amongst the tech savvy younger generation (yes I should beware of stereotyping here) then I would expect an increase in traffic here on RMweb. Maybe there'll be some time lag, a pause while the basics are bought and experimented with, before we see requests for help and advice or the sharing of early efforts.

[Phil Parker]

That sounds like an interesting idea. However I suspect libraries are (unfortunately) past their use-by date.

 

 

If you've not been in one for a while then you'll be surprised to know that many libraries are still very active and promote just the sort of activity we are talking about here. Small branches might not be so vibrant, but if they can supply space and the club can do the publicity, then I'm sure they will be happy to let you in, if only to increase their footfall. 

 

Shopping centres are good, but any with reasonable numbers can often rent the space we might want to someone who will pay for it.

 

There is a group in town encouraging youngsters to model however - Games Workshop shops. Sunday morning tends to be painting tuition time.

[RJS1977]

This is a good idea, and I have seen it done but not recently. It is an idea I have already had, therefore it possible you may see something resembling the suggestion on the SLS stand at Alexandra Palace. Not enough time to do anything other than GMRC related posters before Warley.

 

I remember seeing a layout along those lines in the last 5 years or so. Even the rolling stock was shown at different stages of construction!

[Robin2]

If you've not been in one for a while then you'll be surprised to know that many libraries are still very active and promote just the sort of activity we are talking about here.

I am in one or other of several libraries reasonably often. I see very few "customers" in them (which I find sad - but there it is).

 

The library might like to host a model railway event to increase throughput for the library but there is enough of a challenge getting people interested in model railways without the added burden of first getting them into a library.

 

In a shopping centre (many of which have empty units that the management might be prepared to "loan" for an afternoon) there is a large throughput of people with money in their pockets and wondering what to spend it on. They will also be drawn from all sections of the local community, and not just the narrower range of people who visit libraries.

 

...R