Godstone Road - Platforms and 3rd Rail

[Regularity]

Digikiejs are a norwegian company which specialise in DCC and automation

Dutch, and digikeijs (pronounced “digikeys”, near enough).

 

Interesting product: add something like a Tam Valley DRS transmitter, and you would have the DCC equivalent of the original Protocab concept, with a “concentrator”, from Access. Albeit somewhat cheaper, as an upgrade and not a replacement, and possibly more flexible.

[Lacathedrale]

I used to be involved with Tam Valley way back, and Dead Rail is certainly something I'm interested in - but not sure how it would work with current draw occupancy detection.

[Regularity]

I used to be involved with Tam Valley way back, and Dead Rail is certainly something I'm interested in - but not sure how it would work with current draw occupancy detection.

Theoretically, you would do it the same way as a real railway, i.e. a low current charge supplied by the rails, and either have all metal, uninsulated wheels and axles, or use the rails to trickle-charge on board battery power. For coaching stock, the trickle charge could power the lighting (with stay-alive circuits for dead frogs), and for freight stock you could wire a suitable resistor between the wheel rims.

Such a system would have the added advantage of not requiring high capacity on-board batteries. You would use separate busbars for each occupancy section, with rails bonded to them, and crossing vees left unwired (dead frogs).

 

The benefit of such an approach is that traction control is separated from signalling (hopefully interlocked with the points and crossings!), and just like the real thing the trains have to be driven according to the signals - and you can spad, and you can drive a train against the points, so drivers have to pay attention, and it doesn’t shut down the hole DCC system.

[Siberian Snooper]

To go back to you mentioning the use of S & W couplings, I would suggest that you only use wire loops on the locos, this saves destroying or hiding the buffer beam detailing, just relying on the couplings on the stock is more than adequate. Years of exhibition operation has never proved to have any detrimental problems, except with light freewheeling stock, this is rectified by adding a small bit of foam stuck to the floor of the offending item and bearing on an axle.

[Regularity]

To go back to you mentioning the use of S & W couplings, I would suggest that you only use wire loops on the locos, this saves destroying or hiding the buffer beam detailing, just relying on the couplings on the stock is more than adequate. Years of exhibition operation has never proved to have any detrimental problems, except with light freewheeling stock, this is rectified by adding a small bit of foam stuck to the floor of the offending item and bearing on an axle.

Get that problem with three-links, too.

Personally I go for a bit of thin phosphor bronze wire bearing on the fixed axle, but I wonder if parallel bearings might be a simpler solution.

[Lacathedrale]

Goalpost-only on the S&W's - I think I need a height jig tho, right? With regard to weighting, I'm going to go with the NMRA spec of 1oz + 1oz per inch of length - my PGAs and HEAs will then be in the 5.5oz area. I'm not hauling very long trains, so I don't expect there to be an issue with hauling capacity.

 

EDIT: After all the high and mighty talk about not buying any more stock, both the 4CEP and 2EPB are on sale at hattons at 40% off. Life does make a mockery of us, doesn't it?

Edited October 30, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

I am at my wit's end and really quite ready to throw the towel in. My C&L track order is still nowhere to be found, and my DCC order has 'Parcel Damaged' as the latest status report and is still in Germany, and the tracking information given to me by the seller is invalid.

 

This isn't even remotely fun.

[Lacathedrale]

Apparently I should get my EMGS membership and C&L components imminently, and I've just had a cheeky snipe of a blue/grey 4-CEP on eBay for Godstone Rd. All my DCC kit is still in limbo with DCCTrainAutomation and in Germany.

 

 

I'm currently away in Lisbon but upon my return task 1 is to wrap the 33 such as it is, with nameplates and SOMETHING being done with the minging cab front. That done, I'll potter around with the Lima 37 until I hve a chance to make a 1:6 filing jig and start tracklaying.

[TJ52]

Apparently I should get my EMGS membership and C&L components imminently, and I've just had a cheeky snipe of a blue/grey 4-CEP on eBay for Godstone Rd. All my DCC kit is still in limbo with DCCTrainAutomation and in Germany.

 

 

I'm currently away in Lisbon but upon my return task 1 is to wrap the 33 such as it is, with nameplates and SOMETHING being done with the minging cab front. That done, I'll potter around with the Lima 37 until I hve a chance to make a 1:6 filing jig and start tracklaying.

Are you aware of the EM track to be produced by Peco and sold through the EMGS?

[Lacathedrale]

Yes indeed, but since Phil at C&L has had over two hundred pounds of my money in his bank account for the last month, I'm somewhat invested in my current plans.

 

The long term goal for Godstone Rd is to try exhibiting and seeing whether I enjoy it, and then potentially integrating it into a larger loft-based layout - given that I would rather shove pins into my eyes at this point than attempt to order anything else from C&L, the Peco option (and/or Exactoscale) seem like the perfect choice.

[Lacathedrale]

The Railway Express Modeller 'Train Formations' bookazine was an interesting read during a business trip to Lisbon, certainly it has prompted ideas for formations and stock for Godstone Rd.

 

Selhurst (just up the road from my layout location) had a stabling of ex-SR 50' bogie brake vans (and some CCT's that hung on) for parcels traffic until '86, tho typically would consist of Mk.1 BG's and GUV's. Royal Mail ended it's contract to carry parcels in '86 and the last newspaper trains went by '88 - before renewals and changes outside the scope of my layout.

The SR CCD trips were complicated - Purley was sometimes the final, and sometimes the penultimate extremity of a chain stretching back to Didcot - so sometimes shunting would be required, and others it'd be a straight swap. It seems these trains were ripe for the full speedlink experience - TTA wagons with oil, OCA/OAA wagons and PFA waste skips. Prototypical formations had down to only a handful of wagons.

 

The Intercity 125 was definitely the apex predator of trains to my childhood brain, so the fact that intercity 73's were frequent offenders in the Croydon area makes me pretty chuffed. This is the little tyke that often finds its way up the Caterham branch at the back of my garden: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/austin7nut/35490310143/#large

 

Speaking of which I know RHTT workings are relatively recent but looks like BR(S) ran some weedkilling trains with SR GUVs (presumably fit with spray equipment), TTAs and what looks like a four wheeled CCT: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3148-weed-killing-trains-in-the-1980s-what-worked-where/&do=findComment&comment=396102

 

 

I'm much more comfortable with a timeline of around 86-88 - I feel that gives me the opportunity to run BR Blue, BR Blue/Grey, L&SE Jaffacake, NSE Blue/red, Railfreight grey and Intercity liveries. All my favourite locos are in use and I've got a fair handle on the rolling stock and operating patterns. I've never really been a fan of sectorisation logos or the Dutch livery, and I don't want to get heavily into NSE branding - so it's just about perfect.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Kelly]

Looking a nice project. Always nice to see southern 3rd rail layouts

 

PS: welcome to DEMU, remember there are almost all the back issues to look through on the wiki.

[Lacathedrale]

Looking a nice project. Always nice to see southern 3rd rail layouts

 

PS: welcome to DEMU, remember there are almost all the back issues to look through on the wiki.

 

Cheers, I need to spend some quality time with the DEMU magazines I think. Any particular you can recommend?

 

As it pertains to third rail, I have to just accept that this terminal would have been electrified and multiple-unit only with zero freight at all by the 80's - so a suspension of disbelief is required.

 

The bay platform adjacent to the gravel siding services a 'twig off the branch' like the Waddon bay at West Croydon (I even can get the 2-EPB which was typical traction on the Waddon branch) and the main platform face will be pulling double duty for EMU's and loco hauled traffic so those two will definitely have a third rail added.

[Kelly]

Cheers, I need to spend some quality time with the DEMU magazines I think. Any particular you can recommend?

 

As it pertains to third rail, I have to just accept that this terminal would have been electrified and multiple-unit only with zero freight at all by the 80's - so a suspension of disbelief is required.

 

The bay platform adjacent to the gravel siding services a 'twig off the branch' like the Waddon bay at West Croydon (I even can get the 2-EPB which was typical traction on the Waddon branch) and the main platform face will be pulling double duty for EMU's and loco hauled traffic so those two will definitely have a third rail added.

 

 

There is a searchable index on the homepage, it currently only covers upto issue 85, however there is a more recent index in Excel format on both the wiki and forum upto issue 88. UPdate 89 is being worked on atm and I'm hoping it'll be with members very soon.

 

Off top of my head, issue 62 might interest as that features a reasonable amount on NSE. Otherwise issue 82 featured a small feature on part of the North Kent Lines, and issue 87 featured an article on signalling on the north kent lines. Both would be applicable in some senses to a branch line, though the photos are much more recent than your time period of course.

[Lacathedrale]

Whacked a cheeky deposit in for a Hornby 73 wheelset and a Heljan 33 wheelset from Ultrascale, and some Kapton tape and a proper airbrush stand (rather than a piece of squashed toilet roll).

 

I'm going to have a very frank conversation with Phil at C&L tomorrow - if he hasn't posted my stuff yet then I will be demanding a refund and will just wait until Peco/Ultrascale release their bits - this has been going on for too long.

 

Tomorrow's work will be to do SOMETHING with the buggered up end of the 33, and affix the nameplates and call it 'done'.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Kelly]

An alternative to the Ultrascales is the Branchlines wheels, which are £3.xx/axle, though you have to swap the gears over yourself and align them to the back-to-back. They also do special sets for the Bachmann DEMU/DMU/EMUs which have split axles on the power bogies, but are 3x the price of the normal sets.

[dhjgreen]

An alternative to the Ultrascales is the Branchlines wheels, which are £3.xx/axle, though you have to swap the gears over yourself and align them to the back-to-back. They also do special sets for the Bachmann DEMU/DMU/EMUs which have split axles on the power bogies, but are 3x the price of the normal sets.

This is the nearest to a website for them.

http://branchlines.blogspot.com

Contact is by email or preferably phone, very helpful chap.

[Kelly]

He usually responds fairly promptly to email enquiries and does a small number of shows around the country.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

He usually responds fairly promptly to email enquiries and does a small number of shows around the country.

 

Bad Kelly, you must not play the pronoun game!

[Lacathedrale]

Some good news, my 4CEP turned up (how the F am I going to convert that to EM I wonder) and finally my C&L track components. Unfortunately my EMGS membership is still pending so I'm going to give the method shown here tomorrow and see what happens, if it works then that's great - and if not then I'll grab a couple of jigs from the society stores when that pans out.

 

Just by way of an update - still no sight of my DCC bits from Germany or from DCCTrainAutomation.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Track building finally commences! I bent and filed that Vee by eye and I'm not all that sure how accurate it is - it seems to confirm with the track plan though, so I'll take it. Making one that matches it, is turning out to be a bit more of a challenge
 

 

Here's the half-converted 37 that I got from hattons for £20 - new horns/handrails, P4 wheels and all-wheel pickup already done. As per the 'Class 37 upgrade' thread, I've already got a bunch of etched parts to use so even if this ends up as a bit of a dog it won't have costed much and should be good practice:

 

 

EDIT: Won an auction for a 2EPB and I'm just about to win one (hopefully) for a set of PGAs too - so I think the layout stock is coming along nicely. I really want to make sure 73103 makes an appearance, it looks great: https://imgur.com/a/XZ3PA1N

Edited November 11, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

So I'm at a point of no return with my crossover - I need to fit the main road wingrail and curved switch - the latter I'm fine, because I've not fitted the curved stock rail and I'll use the switch rail to set it - but I'm just not sure how to get the wing rail in the right place. I've got some ideas but they're rather rube-goldberg

[martin_wynne]

So I'm at a point of no return with my crossover - I need to fit the main road wingrail and curved switch - the latter I'm fine, because I've not fitted the curved stock rail and I'll use the switch rail to set it - but I'm just not sure how to get the wing rail in the right place. I've got some ideas but they're rather rube-goldberg

 

Hi William,

 

Fit the curved stock rail next -- and don't forget to put the set in it.

 

Then you can fit the wing rails by gauging them from the stock rails and sliding them towards the vee until the crossing flangeway is correct (1mm for EM, using the crossing flangeway gauge shim).

 

The switch blades go in last, gauged from the stock rails.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks Martin! I got the set in the curved rail, but forgot the joggle in the straight rail - much swearing but with a little judicious filing my one and only EM wagon runs through. The stock rails have alternating gaps where the check rails are, so the latter can be supported and cosmetic chair ends fitted against the stock rail afterwards. Some slide-chair timbers have come adrift but nothing dramatic.

 

 

It seems that practise in 2FS has paid off in EM; at least now I know a few MM drift away from the plan doesn't matter so much as long as everything is gauged across/around/from each other properly.

[martin_wynne]

Thanks Martin! I got the set in the curved rail, but forgot the joggle in the straight rail

 

Hi William,

 

Are you sure you want joggles? They were standard on the GWR, but elsewhere they were provided on facing switches only, and then not always. They are very tricky to model convincingly, it's much easier to build pointwork without them. The main-road stock rail can then be plain rail, and act as a datum for the rest of the construction.

 

More about joggles here:

 

 http://templot.com/companion/real_track.php

 

cheers,

 

Martin.