5050 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I've had a good look back in the list of topics but can't seem to find one specifically on old motors. Plenty of adverts etc. in my various old magazine threads but not a lot on the actual motors. So, following the temporary receipt of an old small cigar box last night at the clubroom, the property of a club member who is now unable to model and is disposing of all his modelling effects, I present these for starters. There are several versions of K's various 'Mks', a couple of Romfords (model?) plus a 'Terrier' - and something I'm not sure of. Possibly Bonds or maybe Taycol? Additionally there are 2 or 3 K's HP2M motors still in their boxes, Another large open frame motor which I think is a Pittman and 2 small Kean Portescaps. The motors have been tested and many of them probably need remagnetising. Here's a couple of views - The Terrier, a Romford and, in the middle, the one I'm not sure of. And this I believe to be a Pittman. Any ideas or more motors? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 Nobody got any idea about the origin of the horseshoe magnet motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NCB Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2018 Nobody got any idea about the origin of the horseshoe magnet motor? Rings a bell, but at the moment can't place it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Moxy Posted October 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 15, 2018 And this I believe to be a Pittman. J A Motors.1 (2).A.jpg Any ideas or more motors? That motor looks very like one that was in an Airfix GMR 61xx Prairie tank I had many years ago. (That is not to say Airfix didn't use Pittman motors of course) HTH Moxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 The motor in the middle i believe is a Bonds of Euston rd motor dating back to the 1930s.it may even be 6v.I do have a 1930s bonds catalogue here somewhere,i`ll try to look it out. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D51 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 I think the motor with the machined horseshoe shaped magnet is a pre-war Romford. There is a drawing of a similar motor, attributed to Romford, with machined horseshoe, twisted brush arms, and square rear bearing mount in "The Craft of Modelling Railways" by Beal, published in 1937. Frank 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 From the 1950 edition of Ernest F Carter's The Model Railway Encyclopaedia: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 That motor looks very like one that was in an Airfix GMR 61xx Prairie tank I had many years ago. (That is not to say Airfix didn't use Pittman motors of course) HTH Moxy The Airfix motor is very similar but not the same. There are several detail differences. I had wondered about Bonds for the horseshoe magnet motor as they did use this shape of magnet often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) The Airfix motor is very similar but not the same. There are several detail differences. I had wondered about Bonds for the horseshoe magnet motor as they did use this shape of magnet often. The rear magnet is very similar but on a second look the screw on the front under the worm gear from memory is different. Perhaps the Airfix motor is a later development, the brush looks similar to the Airfix 005 rather than the square ones on earlier MW ones, but looking again at it and an Airfix one they do look similar https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Airfix-OO-Gauge-GWR-Prairie-Motorised-Chassis-Needs-Attn-L1/142941782919?hash=item2147fe8387:g:JYgAAOSwjYdbW3xV Edited October 16, 2018 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D51 Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Looking back through this forum I found "From Ebay an old Jinty, a very interesting find" from Bertiedog in 2011. The motor in Bertiedog's Jinty of 1930s vintage was identified by him as a Taycol, who also made motors for other suppliers. It is very similar to the horseshoe type shown here. Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Looking back through this forum I found "From Ebay an old Jinty, a very interesting find" from Bertiedog in 2011. The motor in Bertiedog's Jinty of 1930s vintage was identified by him as a Taycol, who also made motors for other suppliers. It is very similar to the horseshoe type shown here. Bertiedog Jinty Motor.jpg Frank Taycol was my first thought and I was hoping to find an old advert. I'll look in the '30's MRN's in the club library. The 2 motors with the 'gearbox' extensions which I initially thought could be Romford have been suggested as Stewart Reidpath this evening. Having l tooked at the Romford adverts in my scans they don't tie up with any Romford motors in my 50's adverts. Any other suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I've had a good look back in the list of topics but can't seem to find one specifically on old motors. Plenty of adverts etc. in my various old magazine threads but not a lot on the actual motors. So, following the temporary receipt of an old small cigar box last night at the clubroom, the property of a club member who is now unable to model and is disposing of all his modelling effects, I present these for starters. J A Motors.1 (1),A.jpg There are several versions of K's various 'Mks', a couple of Romfords (model?) plus a 'Terrier' - and something I'm not sure of. Possibly Bonds or maybe Taycol? Additionally there are 2 or 3 K's HP2M motors still in their boxes, Another large open frame motor which I think is a Pittman and 2 small Kean Portescaps. The motors have been tested and many of them probably need remagnetising. Here's a couple of views - The Terrier, a Romford and, in the middle, the one I'm not sure of. J A Motors.1 (3).A.jpg And this I believe to be a Pittman. J A Motors.1 (2).A.jpg Any ideas or more motors? I dug out my box of spare motors and I have one identical to the last one above. It is the same as the two Airfix 14xx motors I have except for the brush gear which is arranged north-south (rather than east-west like this) on the 14xx motors. IIRC it is indeed for the Airfix 61xx. The Rowell motor illustrated in post #7 must be the original for my Duchess. I think she has an X.04 at the moment, but I don't know how much (if any) of the chassis is original Rowell. One day I'll get her to work.... Dublo chassis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 A few years ago I bought a 00 cast 4P and this was the motor in it. Here it is along side a 5p coin and a TT body. Garry 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 (edited) A few years ago I bought a 00 cast 4P and this was the motor in it. Here it is along side a 5p coin and a TT body. Garry Hi Garry, Would that be a KMR compound? Mine has a rather decrepit Zenith* with a disc commutator. It does run but.... *The forerunner of the X.04 of course. Tri-ang weren't very imaginative with their Jinty numbers; in 00 it was 47606 and TT 47607. Even when they produced an LMS version it was 7606. David Edited October 17, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Fleece 30 Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Hi Garry, Would that be a KMR compound? Mine has a rather decrepit Zenith* with a disc commutator. It does run but.... *The forerunner of the X.04 of course. Tri-ang weren't very imaginative with their Jinty numbers; in 00 it was 47606 and TT 47607. Even when they produced an LMS version it was 7606. David Hi David, Thats correct, I could not remember KMR. Nice heavy models, milled brass chassis. One day it may run again. I never noticed the 00 to TT Jinty numbers but do know when the lined TT version came out (incorrectly?) they could not fit 5 numbers on so used 4. Garry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 (edited) Hi Garry, Yes, the KMR compound is quite a reasonable model. I am undecided about mine. It's in rather tatty crimson with a rather weak chassis fitted with Romford (IIRC) wheels. I don't know whether to leave well alone or repaint her and refurbish or fit a new chassis. I believe they only came as a kit, so the paintwork (what's left of it) is a previous owner's work. AFAIK Jinty's have only been painted unlined black, though with variations in the lettering and numbers. One has appeared in crimson in preservation, but that doesn't really count IMHO. The same applies to Tri-ang's 3F 0-6-0 (always (4)3775). The Midland crimson version is very pretty, but a flight of fancy. I understand Midland goods engines were painted crimson or brown in the early years of the last century, but by the time they had Belpaire fireboxes they were black. Apparently one did have a Fowler tender (approximating to what was offered), but it wasn't 3775 and since the wheels are undersize, it would have made sense to choose the number of one of the 4' 10" ones. I don't know why they chose 43775, as she had already been scrapped and a 4F rather than a 3F would have given more room for the motor. Waffling on again! EDIT for mixed up tenses! Edited October 19, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted October 19, 2018 Share Posted October 19, 2018 ..... AFAIK Jinty's have only been painted unlined black, though with variations in the lettering and numbers. ...... Probably right, but there were at least three of them stationed at Inverness in the 1920s and Lochgorm works, for reasons best known to themselves, applied lining during this period to quite a few goods locomotives (Jones "Big Goods", "Barney" 0-6-0s and Cummings' "Superheated Goods") although I can't find any photographs of the Inverness Jinties that suggest they were treated in this manner. Are there any experts in the Highland section of the LMS out there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 Was told over the weekend that the big motor is probably a KTM not a Pittman. The informant has one the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacerfan Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 The Airfix motor is very similar but not the same. There are several detail differences. I had wondered about Bonds for the horseshoe magnet motor as they did use this shape of magnet often. I am 100% certain that the motor in the last picture is from a Airfix GMR 61xx Prairie tank. I have about three of these locos and it still has the correct worm and wiring to fit one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2018 I am 100% certain that the motor in the last picture is from a Airfix GMR 61xx Prairie tank. I have about three of these locos and it still has the correct worm and wiring to fit one. The rough cast magnet, does look very Airfix like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolseley Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 I could not remember KMR. Nice heavy models, milled brass chassis. One day it may run again. Judging from the illustration of the kit for the KMR Compound, from the 1950 edition of Ernest F Carter's The Model railway Encyclopaedia, the choice of motor seems to have been left up to the purchaser, so you might find anything inside...... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D51 Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Judging from the illustration of the kit for the KMR Compound, from the 1950 edition of Ernest F Carter's The Model railway Encyclopaedia, the choice of motor seems to have been left up to the purchaser, so you might find anything inside...... Screen Shot 2018-12-05 at 6.32.56 pm.jpg This photograph is the KMR kit as supplied, for £3 13s. 4d., intended for screwdriver assembly. It was! It assembled into a non-motorised model for 3-rail track. As the instructions say, a motor was supplied as an extra. This was the motor shown in Garry's photograph of 17th October. Note that no pickup was supplied at all and of course the motor would have required soldering. The possibility of the finished model actually running was somewhat reduced by the fact that the centres of the coupling rods and milled brass chassis were a couple of millimetres out! The gears were supplied with the kit for some reason and, in my case, were not those in this photograph but had coarser teeth as in Garry's photo. Frank 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Judging from the illustration of the kit for the KMR Compound, from the 1950 edition of Ernest F Carter's The Model railway Encyclopaedia, the choice of motor seems to have been left up to the purchaser, so you might find anything inside...... Screen Shot 2018-12-05 at 6.32.56 pm.jpg In some of these chassis there seems to be both a hole and slot cut into the chassis, I think which corresponds to Romford motors 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2018 Was told over the weekend that the big motor is probably a KTM not a Pittman. The informant has one the same. I have a KTM purchased in the early 70s. Not quite like the one in the photo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) i must get my KMR Compound running. Her decrepit Zenith motor will need to be retired for a start. IIRC, she was also reluctant to go around curves. A repaint wouldn't hurt either. She is wearing a rather tatty coat of LMS crimson. Whoever built her must have sorted out the coupling rods however. She does run (or at least did the last time I tried), but the poor old girl is rather worn out (like me!). I assume the 2P kit mentioned in the instructions is the Compound less cylinders and connecting rods. If the coupling rods were 41mm it explains why they didn't fit! (I'm not too keen on the suggested method of securing the connecting rods (Shortest of two? - sorry grammar police!). I would solder the nut Edited December 6, 2018 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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