Dr. Who - Series 11 (2018)

[grahame]

Hmmm, this latest episode continued the preachy theme and not just about racism, but also religion (mustn't call Muslims terrorists) and multi-culturalism. Sure they're important serious themes but I don't think they work well in a what was originally a childrens, time-travelling, sci-fi show. Badies used to be alien monsters and robots intent on domination - not human racist ex-convicts.

 

G

[John Isherwood]

The premise for this episode was bonkers, a time travelling racist!

 

Made no sense whatsoever

 

The first successful takeover of Doctor Who has finally been achieved, not by alien invaders, evil robots or formless entities, but by the home-grown rampant PC brigade !!

 

If we can't have an occasionally series of harmless weekly SF, without an incorporated history lesson on the perceived birth of the black rights movement, then I for one will forego what has been regular enjoyment since childhood.

 

Many things in history were bad - we need to understand that - but ramming it home in a wholely unrelated bit of escapism is inappropriate, and likely to alienate the core audience. (No - not the 'change you into little green men' sort of alienate)!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited October 21, 2018 by cctransuk

[jjb1970]

Using drama to try and engage people with historic events is as old as drama itself, ditto using arts (of any sort) to promote an agenda. I am OK with those concepts if done well, the problem with the current series of Doctor Who is they are being done in such a heavy and kack handed way and without the redeeming feature of good stories. If you have rubbish stories and a political message which is about as subtle as a sledgehammer then it just doesn't make for good TV IMO regardless of how good Jodie Whittaker is in the lead role. Both my kids wandered off half way through (they lost interest well before the end last week too), I might give it another chance next week but I'm rapidly losing interest too.

[pete_mcfarlane]

It felt like I was watching an episode of Quantum Leap.....

[MJI]

If you have already accepted a premis that a box can be bigger on the inside than out, that it can travel in time and space, that it’s owner can regenerate multiple times (as well as changing gender, etc,) then a time travelling racist (or killer robot, or tooth collecting alien or whatever other fantasy is injected into the program) cannot be stretching your credulity much further!

 

 

By then they would be racist against alien species rather than different skin toned humans

[pete_mcfarlane]

By then they would be racist against alien species rather than different skin toned humans

That's basically the plot of 'The Mutants' from 1972. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Ah. You are under the impression TG wasn't scripted.

No I am not. That's why I referred to it as compared to all the contemporary scripted comedy.

[The Stationmaster]

Hmmm, this latest episode continued the preachy theme and not just about racism, but also religion (mustn't call Muslims terrorists) and multi-culturalism. Sure they're important serious themes but I don't think they work well in a what was originally a childrens, time-travelling, sci-fi show. Badies used to be alien monsters and robots intent on domination - not human racist ex-convicts.

 

G

 

Sounds even worse than it was trailed to be.  Very glad That I didn't subject myself to watching it.

It's a great shame that the very original step of casting Jodie Whittaker (who I thought was very good in the first programme of this series) is being sold short by not only a lack of originality in some of the scripting but being lumbered with a load of PC and 'diversity' claptrap - somebody seems to have forgotten that Dr who is about sci-fi and has often been very original in that respect with some clever stories.  Alas it has now lost three viewers in our household and tahh will be a permanent loss unless the whole thing is given a mighty kick up the rear end and gets back to being original sci-fi (and is put back to Saturday at a sensible time as I'm not prepared t miss my evening meal to watch this nonsense).

[Tony_S]

Sounds even worse than it was trailed to be.  Very glad That I didn't subject myself to watching it.

It's a great shame that the very original step of casting Jodie Whittaker (who I thought was very good in the first programme of this series) is being sold short by not only a lack of originality in some of the scripting but being lumbered with a load of PC and 'diversity' claptrap - somebody seems to have forgotten that Dr who is about sci-fi and has often been very original in that respect with some clever stories.  Alas it has now lost three viewers in our household and tahh will be a permanent loss unless the whole thing is given a mighty kick up the rear end and gets back to being original sci-fi (and is put back to Saturday at a sensible time as I'm not prepared t miss my evening meal to watch this nonsense).

I thought it was great.

[kevinlms]

I thought it was great.

An excellent coverage of the subject - Rosa Parks

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks#Her_refusal_to_move

 

Personally, I quite like the historic ones. Far better than some of the fantasy stories - such as invasions by blobs of fat!

 

Stories like these remind me of Jon Pertwee, with stuff like mythology.

[kevinlms]

If you have already accepted a premis that a box can be bigger on the inside than out, that it can travel in time and space, that it’s owner can regenerate multiple times (as well as changing gender, etc,) then a time travelling racist (or killer robot, or tooth collecting alien or whatever other fantasy is injected into the program) cannot be stretching your credulity much further!

You mean something like James Bond 007? You know its way OTT, but it still attracts huge numbers, not least because of the understated British humour, something Americans simply cannot match.

[RedgateModels]

On the subject of the blue box, is it me or have they changed the concept slightly for this series. I might be wrong (it happens!) but before you had the front door hard against the inside walls of the Tardis. Now we have the whole of the inside of the box with the larger interior added on the side. Kinda makes more sense in a way, shows that the much larger interior is in a different dimension.

 

#2 son is still not scared, 3 shows in .....

[Coryton]

An excellent coverage of the subject - Rosa Parks

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks#Her_refusal_to_move

 

Personally, I quite like the historic ones. Far better than some of the fantasy stories - such as invasions by blobs of fat!

 

Stories like these remind me of Jon Pertwee, with stuff like mythology.

 

I'm glad that people have enjoyed it.

 

I'm afraid that it didn't really work for me - I couldn't buy the idea that if Rosa didn't get the bus on that one day, neither she nor anyone else would have made a similar stand later.

 

Still, there aren't many shows where the drama hinges on how many spare seats there are on a bus.

 

Talking of which, I expect that if I knew anything about historical American buses I'd be complaining that it was the wrong sort of bus, and the timetables were the wrong colour, and the driver wouldn't have that sort of uniform. (Actually from the credits it looks as if it might have been filmed in South Africa so the bus is almost certainly wrong).

[kevinlms]

I'm glad that people have enjoyed it.

 

I'm afraid that it didn't really work for me - I couldn't buy the idea that if Rosa didn't get the bus on that one day, neither she nor anyone else would have made a similar stand later.

 

Still, there aren't many shows where the drama hinges on how many spare seats there are on a bus.

 

Talking of which, I expect that if I knew anything about historical American buses I'd be complaining that it was the wrong sort of bus, and the timetables were the wrong colour, and the driver wouldn't have that sort of uniform. (Actually from the credits it looks as if it might have been filmed in South Africa so the bus is almost certainly wrong).

The wikipedia page I linked to, provides some context, I believe.

 

The bus driver appears to be one of the worst jobs worth for the rules and had previously left her standing when she got on the wrong entrance, after paying her fare. After being forced off, to get on again at the correct entrance, he drove off, leaving her stranded.

 

Perhaps the bus & the drivers uniform are wrong, I have no idea. Not sure that it matters to the story of a dreadful state of affairs, partly allegedly changed by Dr Who. Yep, far fetched, but isn't EVERY Dr Who story? Did South Africa during the Apartheid years, run segregated buses as depicted, or did they run two, one for whites 1/2 empty & 1 for coloureds jammed in like sardines?

 

While its no longer legal in Montgomery USA, to segregate passengers based on colour, I'm sure African-Americans are still treated as 2nd class citizens, by many.

[iL Dottore]

Sounds even worse than it was trailed to be.  Very glad That I didn't subject myself to watching it.

It's a great shame that the very original step of casting Jodie Whittaker (who I thought was very good in the first programme of this series) is being sold short by not only a lack of originality in some of the scripting but being lumbered with a load of PC and 'diversity' claptrap - somebody seems to have forgotten that Dr who is about sci-fi and has often been very original in that respect with some clever stories.  Alas it has now lost three viewers in our household and tahh will be a permanent loss unless the whole thing is given a mighty kick up the rear end and gets back to being original sci-fi (and is put back to Saturday at a sensible time as I'm not prepared t miss my evening meal to watch this nonsense).

Actually, Mike, it wasn't that bad. There were a few things that were a bit "preachy" (such as the comment from Yasmin about coming back from the Mosque), but generally I found that it was a fairly interesting story. However (and this is a BIG however), two things really let it down: the first was the poor reaction of Graham (Bradley Walshe's character) to seeing his grandson slapped. Someone who had spent his working life as a bus driver frequently dealing with often alcoholic and unstable passengers, would have probably clocked the guy who slapped the kid. The second, and more importantly, was the villain's motives. That far in the future white vs non-white is hardly going to be an issue (more like humans vs tentacled, scaly things). What if, say, the villain was an alien who travelled back in time to prevent Rosa Parks from boarding the bus did so as he (nah, IT) realised that by preventing the civil rights movement from really getting going (owing to no Rosa Parks "trigger" moment) Earth would still be riven by internecine warfare and easy pickings for its' particular mob of tentacled monstrosities when they turned up X centuries later.

 

However, it does show the weakness of the writers. SciFi doesn't have to be realistic, nor apolitical (much SciFi is a mirror of humanity and able to make salient points about that) but there has to be a logic to what characters do. What the bad guy in the first episode was/did had a certain amount of logic to it (flimsy as it might have been). But the villain on Sunday's episode really had no logic behind the decision to try and do what he tried and didn't.

 

A little bit of "moral nudging" is OK (Dr Who has always had a moral streak in it), but please, can it be with at least some lip service to logic and consistency?

Edited October 23, 2018 by iL Dottore

[Coryton]

The wikipedia page I linked to, provides some context, I believe.

 

The bus driver appears to be one of the worst jobs worth for the rules and had previously left her standing when she got on the wrong entrance, after paying her fare. After being forced off, to get on again at the correct entrance, he drove off, leaving her stranded.

 

And they did show the earlier incident at the start of the programme.

 

The wikipedia page also makes it clear that there had been several other instances of black people failing to abide by the rules, but hers was the one that was picked up on.

 

Perhaps the bus & the drivers uniform are wrong, I have no idea. Not sure that it matters to the story of a dreadful state of affairs, partly allegedly changed by Dr Who. 

 

Well, no it certainly doesn't matter to the story. But nor does the fact that the first episode featured a Mk 2 ex-Gatwick Express set in Sheffield and mentions of third rails, which generated some comment on here. It just amused me to think that the bus was probably equally bad but looked fine to me, even though the train stood out to me as being horribly wrong. (Though having looked at the link on the Wikipedia page, maybe they did OK on the bus).

 

Yep, far fetched, but isn't EVERY Dr Who story?

 

Indeed, but I enjoy science fiction stories that seem plausible given their central premise, and that wasn't the case for me with this one.

 

To take an extreme example, suppose one of the assistants regenerated next week. One might say it's OK because Doctor Who is far-fetched and after all he does that. But the premise is that he is a Time Lord who does regenerate, and humans don't. So to me (and probably to most viewers) that wouldn't work. It's the wrong sort of far-fetched.

 

Anyway - this story didn't work for me. It's not the first, I'm sure it won't be the last, and I hope there will be more this series that do appeal to me.

The wikipedia page I linked to, provides some context, I believe.

 

The bus driver appears to be one of the worst jobs worth for the rules and had previously left her standing when she got on the wrong entrance, after paying her fare. After being forced off, to get on again at the correct entrance, he drove off, leaving her stranded.

 

And they did show the earlier incident at the start of the programme.

 

The wikipedia page also makes it clear that there had been several other instances of black people failing to abide by the rules, but hers was the one that was picked up on.

 

[Karhedron]

On the subject of the blue box, is it me or have they changed the concept slightly for this series. I might be wrong (it happens!) but before you had the front door hard against the inside walls of the Tardis. Now we have the whole of the inside of the box with the larger interior added on the side. Kinda makes more sense in a way, shows that the much larger interior is in a different dimension.

Yes, you are right. If you look at 12's Tardis, the area around the doors was box-shaped as though it would fit inside a police box. But it did not have a representation of the windows etc on the other 2 sides.

 

 

13's Tardis has 3 out of 4 walls represented internally. Also the writing is no longer mirrored. It is the right way round on both sides.

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Karhedron

[hayfield]

I am enjoying this new series, normally it takes a few episodes to get used to the new interpretation of the Doctor, but in this reincarnation it feels right from the start. 

[grahame]

I see that the first episode (of the current series) had 9m viewers but by episode three that had fallen to 7.3m

 

G

[hayfield]

I see that the first episode (of the current series) had 9m viewers but by episode three that had fallen to 7.3m

 

G

 

 

Don't most programs have high viewer numbers when a new series has been heavily advertised, then you have a group who view on demand, some even binge on the box set then you have the world wide sales (which on their own must pay production costs) as its an icon series. 

[grahame]

. . . then you have a group who view on demand, some even binge on the box set then you have the world wide sales (which on their own must pay production costs) as its an icon series.

 

That, of course, applies to all programmes, and yes the first episode of a new series does usually have a high initial veiwing figure, but it does seem like a rather rapid (just two issues later) and a relatively large fall.

 

As a quick comparison the latest series of 'Silent Witness' had 9.42m for the first episode down to 8.86m for the third, the most recent series of 'Unforgotton' fell 6.8m to 6.74m over the first three episodes, while 'Bodyguard' actually went up for first to third (14.42m to 15.04m).

 

G

Edited October 25, 2018 by grahame

[Coryton]

I see that the first episode (of the current series) had 9m viewers but by episode three that had fallen to 7.3m

 

I suppose some people might turn off in disgust part way through, but surely the viewing figures for the first episode of anything reflect the number of people who thought they would like it far more than the number who actually did?

 

For subsequent episodes it's a bit different.

[jjb1970]

Do the viewing figures really say anything about how good a TV show or movie is? One of my pet hates is the tendency of some to use sales figures for music as a proxy for quality of the music and performance.

[kevinlms]

Do the viewing figures really say anything about how good a TV show or movie is? One of my pet hates is the tendency of some to use sales figures for music as a proxy for quality of the music and performance.

These days with multiple recording devices, how do they know if people record & watch later, or never bother to watch it once recorded?

 

Just seems hit and miss to me.

[pete_mcfarlane]

These days with multiple recording devices, how do they know if people record & watch later, or never bother to watch it once recorded?

 

Just seems hit and miss to me.

Are TV viewing figures still based on monitoring a sample of a few thousand volunteers and then extrapolating the data? That method certainly captured people recording and watching later.