Gordon A Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I am carrying out some research into the 150hp 0-4-0 Fowler diesel shunter. The information I have is that 120 of these engines were built in the second world war for the government to move munitions. After the war many were transferred to B.R. with some going to industrial use. 1) I am looking to identify as many build numbers and build years as possible ie: 22878/1939 the prototype engine in my picture. Besides the afore mentioned loco I am aware of locos 22882/1939, 22888/1940, 22891/1940, 22896/1940, 22912/1940, and 22915/1940. 2) How many of these locomotives still survive today? I am aware of the engine at Erwood and one at the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway. Many thanks Gordon A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2018 The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique. I've measured one at Dalmellington and a TH rebuild on the same frame at Peak Rail. I think there's one at Embsay but I've not seen it yet and possibly one on the Derwent Valley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2018 After the war many were transferred to B.R. ..... Not as far as I am aware. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique. I've measured one at Dalmellington and a TH rebuild on the same frame at Peak Rail. I think there's one at Embsay but I've not seen it yet and possibly one on the Derwent Valley. Yes, just seen that while trawling for information. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Not sure how easy it is to find (nothing coming back from a quick search), but a copy of "John Fowler & Co., Locomotive Works List" by Frank Jux and published by the Industrial Locomotive Society (1985) should have the information you require. These locomotives were built for the Air Ministry, Admiralty, War Department and Royal Ordnance Factory. Most of the Air Ministry's locomotives were rebuilt by Fowler in the 1950s, but only three each of the WD and ROF locomotives were so treated. The Works list gives details of the depots and dates of rebuilding. The prototype 150HP engine type 4C was actually JF 22237/1937. According to my reckoning (i.e. counting the entries), there were 110 built for the various offices of war by 1945 (a couple of exceptions), the traditional consecutive works numbering ending with 23012/1945 (Air Ministry 271). Five (b/ns 22878, 22888, 22889, 22971 and 22982) still exist. However a further 46 150HP/4C locomotives were built for UK industry and export (India, metre gauge) between 1945 and 1949, with works numbers reflecting the subsequent JF classification scheme (i.e. 42000xx). Four of these also survive. The survivor at Pontypool & Blaenarvon is JF 22497//1938 - basically the same engine and rating, but as noted a six-wheeler, built for an industrial concern. Edited October 5, 2018 by EddieB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium pete_mcfarlane Posted October 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2018 After the war many were transferred to B.R. with some going to industrial use. Not as far as I am aware. The LMR civil engineer had about 6 or 7, and the SR had 2. https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/15738242917 https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-DIESEL-AND-ELECTRIC/PRE-TOPS-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVES/i-K2P68Jp I think these were all new builds though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) The LMR civil engineer had about 6 or 7, and the SR had 2. https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/15738242917 https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/BRITISH-DIESEL-AND-ELECTRIC/PRE-TOPS-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVES/i-K2P68Jp I think these were all new builds though. The LMR locomotives were numbered ED1 - ED7. ED1 was former LMS no. 2, JF 21048/1935, an 88HP design with "RH" engine. The remainder were of the 150HP/4C type covered in this thread. ED7 was JF 22891/1940, built for ROF Bridgend and acquired by BR in 1955. ED2-ED6 went straight to British Railways and were part of the batch of 46 (see my previous post), JF 4200041-45 (1949). The Southern ones were: SR 400S/BR(S) DS400, built as JF 22934/1941 for ROF Aycliffe and acquired 1945; and SR 600S/BR(S) DS600, built as JF 22997/1943 for ROF Thorp Arch (Yorkshire) and acquired 1947. Edited October 5, 2018 by EddieB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted October 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 5, 2018 The LMR locomotives were numbered ED1 - ED7. ED1 was former LMS no. 2, JF 21048/1935, an 88HP design with "RH" engine. The remainder were of the 150HP/4C type covered in this thread. ED7 was JF 22891/1940, built for ROF Bridgend and acquired by BR in 1955. ED2-ED6 went straight to British Railways and were part of the batch of 46 (see my previous post), JF 4200041-45 (1949). The Southern ones were: SR 400S/BR(S) DS400, built as JF 22934/1941 for ROF Aycliffe and acquired 1945; and SR 600S/BR(S) DS600, built as JF 22997/1943 for ROF Thorp Arch (Yorkshire) and acquired 1947. So - only three of the wartime build were acquired by BR. This accords with my impression that the statement that "After the war many were transferred to B.R. ...." was rather over-stating the case. Thanks for chapter and verse on this. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 (edited) Thank you every one for the various bits of information. 22896/1940 went to Swindon for repair, then to Woolwich Arsenal before going into private industry, as did a number of the ex wartime builds. I acquired quite a bit of information from "opobs" - Bridgend ROF locomotives. (https://opobs.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/bridgend-rof-locomotives-1/) (R.o.F = Royal Ordnance Factory) I am going to visit the Fowler archive on Tuesday to see what plans they hold. I am still interested in any further information on these locos. Gordon A Edited October 5, 2018 by Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 Not sure how easy it is to find (nothing coming back from a quick search), but a copy of "John Fowler & Co., Locomotive Works List" by Frank Jux and published by the Industrial Locomotive Society (1985) should have the information you require. These locomotives were built for the Air Ministry, Admiralty, War Department and Royal Ordnance Factory. Most of the Air Ministry's locomotives were rebuilt by Fowler in the 1950s, but only three each of the WD and ROF locomotives were so treated. The Works list gives details of the depots and dates of rebuilding. The prototype 150HP engine type 4C was actually JF 22237/1937. According to my reckoning (i.e. counting the entries), there were 110 built for the various offices of war by 1945 (a couple of exceptions), the traditional consecutive works numbering ending with 23012/1945 (Air Ministry 271). Five (b/ns 22878, 22888, 22889, 22971 and 22982) still exist. However a further 46 150HP/4C locomotives were built for UK industry and export (India, metre gauge) between 1945 and 1949, with works numbers reflecting the subsequent JF classification scheme (i.e. 42000xx). Four of these also survive. The survivor at Pontypool & Blaenarvon is JF 22497//1938 - basically the same engine and rating, but as noted a six-wheeler, built for an industrial concern. Hello EddieB Can you tell me where 22971 and 22982 are located please? Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Hello EddieB Can you tell me where 22971 and 22982 are located please? Gordon A 22971 is/was at Eden Valley Railway Trust, Warcop (Cumbria), 22982 based at Crewe Heritage Centre (although was rebuilt by Thomas Hill in 1963). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted October 6, 2018 Author Share Posted October 6, 2018 22971 is/was at Eden Valley Railway Trust, Warcop (Cumbria), 22982 based at Crewe Heritage Centre (although was rebuilt by Thomas Hill in 1963). Thank you for the info. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteskitchen Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 The one at Pontypool and Blaenavon is an 0-6-0, as far as I know unique. That one has moved to Foxfield now and it well on it's way to be restored. Cosmetically it looks fantastic in lined blue livery, and yes it is unique. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 More information see link in my footer to the Leeds Engine site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted January 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2019 I'm working on drawing the wartime version of this now, thanks to a GA from the museum in Reading, hoping to have at least a test etch in time for Scalefour North. This will also do for the two SR locos 400s/600s and BR ED7 but it's now apparent that ED2 - 6 are of rather different dimensions - shorter length over buffers of 21'4" and shorter 5'3" wheelbase (wartime ones were 23'5"/6'3"). That at least explains the measurements I made of one of the TH rebuilds which must have been one of this type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium drjcontroller Posted January 24, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread, thought this photo might be of interest. It shows 22918 in a scrapyard at Alfreton in June 1984, apparently it worked at ROF Chorley from new in 1940. Douglas 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 Thanks for the picture drjcontroller. Any pictures or actual information would be welcome. I passed the plans I purchased to Mike Edge, so if enough people are interested and can gently persuade Mike, a kit may appear. Gordon A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2019 I've finished the basic drawing for the wartime built (mostly ROF) locos, not all the information was on the GA as there was no plan view and not many marked dimensions. Not only that but the buffer height was either incorrectly drawn or dimensioned - I've put them at normal standard height as I can't see anything else in all my photos of these. There are a great many variations in detail with these locos but this should cover SR 600s (which I have to build for a customer) and ED7 of the LMR departmental locos. ED2-6 are very different with a shorter wheelbase and overall length. The wheels drawn above are from the GA but I can't find any photos of locos with these (presumably cast iron) wheels, most seem to have a 10 spoke steel wheel centre. The main areas of conjecture are the exact width of the casings and footplate angle and the position of the exhaust if the large gas conditioner isn't fitted. There's little or no information on the interior of the cab and the controls. I may well do the radiator as a one piece moulding, this would also allow for etching the later squared off radiator housing as an alternative. At the moment I'm aiming at getting a test etch for this version done before Scalefour North in April. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 Looks good Mike. Put me down for one please. See you at S4N. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ruston Posted February 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 04/10/2018 at 12:58, Gordon A said: 2) How many of these locomotives still survive today? I am aware of the engine at Erwood and one at the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway. Many thanks Gordon A There's one at the Derwent Valley, near York (4200022/48) and I think the ex-BOCM Selby one (4200003/46) is at the Embsay Railway, near Skipton. There's a re-engined one, with the Fowler-rebuilt engine casing, at the Scottish Industrial Railway Centre, at Dunaskin (4200028/48). 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) There's a nice sequence showing 22996 (different radiator arrangement to that shown in Mike's drawing) tootling around Northam, Southampton here: My personal favourite is this one: Adam Edited February 6, 2019 by Adam 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 ED5 on my LE site 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted February 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2019 I can put the alternative radiator arrangement in the etch if I get some dimensions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 16:53, Michael Edge said: I can put the alternative radiator arrangement in the etch if I get some dimensions. Great! Assuming I was anywhere near one of the preserved examples, I would - can anyone help? Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post britlover Posted February 8, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2019 JF 22497/1938 I purchased her of a chap called David Haylins in 2016 and moved her to Foxfield in 2017. Arrived there on the 1st March. Built for the Ebbw Vale Steel Works in 1938, she was there first ever Diesel Loco but also the first loco bought by the new owners of ebbw vale, Richard Thomas & Baldwin's, hence the RT1 - Richard Thomas No1. She worked at ebbw vale from 1938 to 1953, primarily on slag tipping duties. She was built with 4 100psi air tanks and a huge single cylinder compressor to allow for maximum air capacity to work the air powered tipping gear on the Slag ladels at the steel works. She was outshopped in the traditional lined green Fowler livery with black wheels and frames, black rods and polished rod ends. The exhaust original running through the front cab sheet In 1953 she was transferred to Abercarn Tin Plate Works and worked there till the end of her industrial days in 1983. During her time at Abercarn she was repainted blue and had the exhaust moved to run through the top of the bonnet, remaining unsilenced. In 1983 she was donated to the Pontypool and Blaenavon Railway Society and became there first diesel loco, even shunt releasing the last mainline train from Pontypool consisting of a rake of MK1 coaches bought by the railway. Here she was painted back into a green livery at the time believed to be her proper colours of green with sunshine yellow lining, recently proved to be incorrect. She ran until 1987 when the donkey engine, previously damaged at Abercarn, seized solid and there for stopped use of the loco as they could no longer start her main engine. She was then parked up and not used. In the early 2000s a purge of diesels began at the railway and RT1 was in the firing line to be scrapped to raise cash, but before they could touch her she was purchased by David Haylins along with another loco, D615, and a restoration attempt was made, by 2004 the money ran short and the half painted, half restored loco was parked up and not touched until 2016 when I bought her. Since I purchased the loco I have cosmetically restored her in a fictional lined blue livery which combines the blue she wore at Abercarn and the lining style she wore when new from the works in Leeds in 1938. And until i moved her to Foxfield in 2017, she had never left Wales since she arrived at ebbw vale in 1938, that's an entire 79 years spent in South wales and only moving no more than 25 miles in that whole time!! Mechanically a new compressor has been purchase, a more modern tamper style compressor as the air system will only work the loco air brakes. The gearbox and clutch are in fine fettle but The main engine is currently undergoing a major rebuild, all 4 cylinder heads have bee refurbished and I'm currently awaiting delivery of new head gaskets and piston rings. Once done the engine auxiliaries and injectors will be sent away for refurb and then we will try her for a start. She has been converted to electric start and the starter motor will require a refurb. The starter came off a spare engine purchased as a spares and repairs for RT1. Unfortunately it is seized solid and has a cracked sump. So it will be stripped of its dynamo, auxiliaries and rockers before either being sold on or scrapped. The name Nellie Owen is something I have applied, naming her after my late grandmother who was always a keen supporter of my hobby and wanted me to succeed with the project... All in all it is hoped to have her running in the very near future, but only time will tell. And currently to knowledge, she is one of only 10 0-6-0DM built of her type to standard guage and the only one to survive, thus making her unique.... 19 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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