Devon Belle 1948-end of operation Pullman carriage consist info?

[sp4294]

Hello from across the pond in Western Canada!

Please excuse this post if it has been asked before (I couldn't find a related thread), but I am wondering if there is a historical consist list of the Pullman carriages that would be found on the Devon Belle during the early post-Nationalization period? I know the cars listed in the appropriate Hornby packs, but since there were usually twelve carriages on any given day, I am looking for an accurate list for modeling purposes. The Southern Railway E-Group webpage doesn't list actual consists AFAIK.

Any help would be appreciated.

cheers

Stefan

[Steamport Southport]

The information is on there.

 

In the Pullman section there are issues of Coupe News. Well worth a look at if you have interest in Pullmans.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/index.html

 

I think this is the relevant issue. Although there are other bits of information elsewhere.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/coupe_se02.pdf

 

 

 

Jason

[John Isherwood]

Hello from across the pond in Western Canada!

Please excuse this post if it has been asked before (I couldn't find a related thread), but I am wondering if there is a historical consist list of the Pullman carriages that would be found on the Devon Belle during the early post-Nationalization period? I know the cars listed in the appropriate Hornby packs, but since there were usually twelve carriages on any given day, I am looking for an accurate list for modeling purposes. The Southern Railway E-Group webpage doesn't list actual consists AFAIK.

Any help would be appreciated.

cheers

Stefan

 

Now this is where I will get shot down in flames .....

 

..... but I will nevertheless suggest that the word 'consist' is a (from the UK point of view) Transatlantic concept not used in the UK during the 'classic' period of railways.

 

Whenever I see the word 'consist' in a posting, I don't have to look at the location of the author - it screams "America / Canada (perhaps Antipodean?)" at me.

 

..... unless you know different, of course!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited September 30, 2018 by cctransuk

[brianusa]

Thanks for an interesting site, never knew of it before!  I was only twelve when it first appeared at Friary station, but old enough to realise it was something special but it was a shame there was no obs car on the rear!

 

Brian.

[Dunsignalling]

Thanks for an interesting site, never knew of it before!  I was only twelve when it first appeared at Friary station, but old enough to realise it was something special but it was a shame there was no obs car on the rear!

 

Brian.

The observation car was "always" in the Ilfracombe portion of the train, though I'm eagerly awaiting the pictures demonstrating the folly of being categorical about it. 

Before my time anyway as my mode of transport was still a push-chair when the Belle ceased to run.

 

John

Edited September 29, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[brianusa]

It would seem today that the difference in railway words is fading slowly, hence 'consist, freight train, train station', etc, are becoming universal on the news and in print media even from UK railway companies and enthusiasts.

 

Brian.

Edited September 29, 2018 by brianusa

[Graham_Muz]

The Devon Belle whilst short lived lasted beyond 1948 t was introduced by the Southern Railway on 20th June 1947 and lasted until September 1954. As stated above the observation car was used on the Ilfracombe portion only, the Plymouth portion ceased operating in 1950.

 

The observation cars were occasionally used on special tours on the Southern Region before being transferred to midland and Scottish regions.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Graham_Muz

[Steamport Southport]

It would seem today that the difference in railway words is fading slowly, hence 'consist, freight train, train station', etc, are becoming universal on the news and in print media even from UK railway companies and enthusiasts.

 

Brian.

 

Not on my watch they're not!

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I know that's off American cop shows before anyone points it out. 

 

 

Jason

[PenrithBeacon]

Now this is where I will get shot down in flames .....

 

..... but I will nevertheless suggest that the word 'consist' is a (from the UK point of view) Transatlantic concept not used in the UK during the 'classic' period of railways.

 

Whenever I see the word 'consist' in a posting, I don't have to look at the location of the author - it screams "America / Canada (perhaps Antipodean?)" at me.

 

..... unless you know different, of course!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I loath the word too much preferring rake which is the traditional British word

[sp4294]

Jason

 

The information is on there.

 

In the Pullman section there are issues of Coupe News. Well worth a look at if you have interest in Pullmans.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/index.html

 

I think this is the relevant issue. Although there are other bits of information elsewhere.

 

http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/coupe_se02.pdf

 

 

 

Jason

Indeed it was there all along. Thanks so much for that link. I hadn't seen it on their website. Much appreciated!

cheers

Stefan

[sp4294]

Now this is where I will get shot down in flames .....

 

..... but I will nevertheless suggest that the word 'consist' is a (from the UK point of view) Transatlantic concept not used in the UK during the 'classic' period of railways.

 

Whenever I see the word 'consist' in a posting, I don't have to look at the location of the author - it screams "America / Canada (perhaps Antipodean?)" at me.

 

..... unless you know different, of course!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Indeed, the term "rake" is unheard of over here. For argument sake, it could be argued that "consist" is a more precise term. cheers Stefan

[hayfield]

The Devon Belle whilst short lived lasted beyond 1848 t was introduced by the Southern Railway on 20th June 1947 and lasted until September 1954. As stated above the observation car was used on the Ilfracombe portion only, the Plymouth portion ceased operating in 1950.

 

The observation cars were occasionally used on special tours on the Southern Region before being transferred to midland and Scottish regions.

 

Going slightly off topic, a couple of weeks ago my wife and I rode in the Dartmouth Steam Railway's observation car from Kingswear to Paignton as the first carriage behind the loco, initially I thought of these carriages as being at the end of the train, but the view going forward despite the loco being in front was excellent.

 

Bit of a simple question, were they always run at the rear and if so I guess had to be turned round and change ends for each journey

[chris45lsw]

Going slightly off topic, a couple of weeks ago my wife and I rode in the Dartmouth Steam Railway's observation car from Kingswear to Paignton as the first carriage behind the loco, initially I thought of these carriages as being at the end of the train, but the view going forward despite the loco being in front was excellent.

 

Bit of a simple question, were they always run at the rear and if so I guess had to be turned round and change ends for each journey

Yes, the observation car was turned on the Ilfracombe loco turntable.

 

Chris KT

[Wickham Green]

Yes, the observation car was turned on the Ilfracombe loco turntable.

 

Chris KT

Indeed - and there are published photos .............. but I can't recall how / where it was turned at the London end. ( I think the stock was stabled a Clapham - but there were no turning facilities there ..... and, of course the Obo has to be taken off one end of the rake and reattached to the other end too : sounds complex and expensive in loco power ..... no wonder it didn't last too long.)

[hayfield]

I think the expensive bit was only a few seats in the car plus a bar, must admit beats commuting every time, sitting in an armchair with oodles of leg room is shear indulgence, pity the bar was closed. Instead of an extra £5 why not an extra £10 which includes a glass of bubbly  

[Steamport Southport]

Indeed, the term "rake" is unheard of over here. For argument sake, it could be argued that "consist" is a more precise term. cheers Stefan

 

It's unheard of over here as well. It's a term made up by Railway Modellers I'm afraid. I've never heard a proper railwayman use it. If they do it's because they have learnt it from enthusiasts.

 

The correct terms are train which is a bit vague or set which is usually a fixed formation. Formation is also used and probably closest to using consist as it's more a specified set of carriages used for a specific train.

 

http://www.crecy.co.uk/lner-passenger-train-formations-vol-2

 

 

Jason

[brianusa]

It's unheard of over here as well. It's a term made up by Railway Modellers I'm afraid. I've never heard a proper railwayman use it. If they do it's because they have learnt it from enthusiasts.

 

The correct terms are train which is a bit vague or set which is usually a fixed formation. Formation is also used and probably closest to using consist as it's more a specified set of carriages used for a specific train.

 

http://www.crecy.co.uk/lner-passenger-train-formations-vol-2

 

 

Jason

 

Don't know where Jason's 'over here' is, but I rather think he's right as I first learned of 'rakes' when joined  a train club back home many years ago.  I learned of 'consist' over here in the US along with other American railroad terminology but on sites such as this I use the English terms.  Don't wish to upset the  locals!

 

Brian.

[Graham_Muz]

Sorry, fat fingers on phone syndrome, post now duly corrected.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Graham_Muz