How long have DRS been hauling Nuclear Flasks?

[richscylla]

A simple question - how long have DRS been on the flasks and who was running them before? 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Rich

[The Fatadder]

The transition was fairly soon after privatisation, I recall EWS running the services for a short time but could be wrong

 

Certainly by 1996 the first 20/3 were out shopped in DRS livery with the 37s following in 1998 (later in 1999 appearing with the new light clusters)

[richscylla]

Awesome - thanks so much for that info! Exactly what I was after!

[Worsdell forever]

I would say as long as DRS have been in existence, weren't they set up for that job? owned by BNFL? Before that it would have been BR.

['CHARD]

I would say as long as DRS have been in existence, weren't they set up for that job? owned by BNFL? Before that it would have been BR.

 

Correct.  I'd have thought Google/ Wikipedia gave chapter and verse (it does). 

[Wheatley]

Before that it would have been BR.

Correct. Trainload Coal, ironically.

[The Fatadder]

Trainload Coal (mostly Class 31s, with 73/33 used in the SE)

 

Then post sale of the FOCs, EWS ran the flasks(again 31s were common, see this photo circa 1996)

https://flic.kr/p/23ULtt1

 

Then DRS,l initially on certain traffic circa 1996, later expanding to everything as they bought more locos on stream.

 

For the naval traffic, it was EWS for a lot longer before eventually going over to DRS I believe.

Edited September 13, 2018 by The Fatadder

[298]

Correct. Trainload Coal, ironically.

It was the nearest sector in terms of fleet useage and purpose. Roundel Design produced a suitable logo for "Trainload Nuclear" (and Trainload Passengers) but for some reason BR decided not to use them.....

[russ p]

DRS took over the power station traffic in 98

Acid from sandbach and stuff for Drigg was 96/97

[Fat Controller]

When did flasks start to be conveyed in dedicated trains? In a lot of 1960s and 1970s photos, they seemed be incorporated into mixed freights.

[009 micro modeller]

I would say as long as DRS have been in existence, weren't they set up for that job? owned by BNFL? Before that it would have been BR.

Was there a particular reason why they didn't continue to contract haulage to EWS or another freight operator?

[Rivercider]

When did flasks start to be conveyed in dedicated trains? In a lot of 1960s and 1970s photos, they seemed be incorporated into mixed freights.

The flasks to and from Bridgwater (for Hinkley Point) were passing on the vacuum braked wagon load service until at least September 1980.

I also have a photo of 6V52 Sellafield - Bridgwater flask service dated June 1982.

 

cheers 

[richscylla]

After starting this thread I actually saw my first Flask train in the flesh yesterday!

 

['CHARD]

Was there a particular reason why they didn't continue to contract haulage to EWS or another freight operator?

 

They hadn't strictly speaking contracted it out - in the commercial/ competitive sense - previously, because the whole lot was nationalised as part of BR.  BNFL set DRS up in the prelude to privatisation - in 1994 - because it wished to exert direct control over this part of its operations, and EWS wasn't established until the following year, so in the chronological sense DRS pre-empted the sale of the three freight businesses (and RES). 

 

The reason was no doubt one of guaranteeing continuity of service in the period of uncertainty over what would ultimately be the fate of the FOCs.  As has been mentioned up-thread, of course, BNFL then did go on to contract out certain specific traffic back to EWS.

Edited September 14, 2018 by 'CHARD

[e30ftw]

It was the nearest sector in terms of fleet useage and purpose. Roundel Design produced a suitable logo for "Trainload Nuclear" (and Trainload Passengers) but for some reason BR decided not to use them.....

At the risk of going off topic, is there a link or pictures of the proposed designs? It would make a  wonderfull what if model

[phil-b259]

Was there a particular reason why they didn't continue to contract haulage to EWS or another freight operator?

Safety and Security!

 

Please remember that ‘nuclear waste’ is something the public at large remain very scared of - the demonstration where a diesel loco was crashed into flask (positioned so the weakest part took the brunt of the impact) at 80mph was done pre Isley to reassure the public that the flasks wouldn’t release nuclear Armageddon on the local populace should they be involved in an incident.

 

Furthermore some of the stuff nuclear stuff moved came from ‘sensitive’ MOD sites - having any old contractors doing the transportation increases the potential for a security breach.

 

There is also the little matter that nuclear transportation remains a specialist industry. The need for bespoke wagons, two locomotives to guard against failures and the desire not to leave nuclear wagons hanging round in loops / yards for hours means it’s not exactly the most efficient of operations /utilisation of assets and when privatisation was being drawn up it’s quite likely someone in Whitehall realised the Government could run into problems if the new owners of BRs freight business decided they wanted to pull out from carrying nuclear traffic.

 

Setting up ‘Direct Rail Services’ as a subsidy of the then 100% Government owned ‘British Nuclear Fuels Ltd’ allowed nuclear transportation to remain firmly in state hands and effectively be kept out of the rail privatisation process.

[newbryford]

DRS was set up in 1995 and is a wholly owned subsidiary of the NDA (Nuclear Decommissioning Authority).

 

Cheers,

Mick

[phil-b259]

DRS was set up in 1995 and is a wholly owned subsidiary of the NDA (Nuclear Decommissioning Authority).

 

Cheers,

Mick

Which is still a 100% Government owned organisation thus not invalidating what I said.

 

 

The whole nuclear energy thing is very complicated - basically the Tories desperately wanted to privatise the whiole thing (as they did with the rest of the CEGBs ‘conventional’ stations) but because of the massive clean up costs a lot of ‘salami sliceing’ had to take place removing the ‘nasty’ bits and creating a whole host of separate organisations - some of which could be flowed off while others had to be reluctantly retained by Government.

Edited September 17, 2018 by phil-b259

[long island jack]

Anything could turn up on the flasks through Workington,  coal sector 31's were the main stay for the traffic, but in the early days of EWS anything went.

31302

31424

37404

37405

47219

47555

ray

[009 micro modeller]

Safety and Security!

 

Please remember that ‘nuclear waste’ is something the public at large remain very scared of - the demonstration where a diesel loco was crashed into flask (positioned so the weakest part took the brunt of the impact) at 80mph was done pre Isley to reassure the public that the flasks wouldn’t release nuclear Armageddon on the local populace should they be involved in an incident.

 

Furthermore some of the stuff nuclear stuff moved came from ‘sensitive’ MOD sites - having any old contractors doing the transportation increases the potential for a security breach.

 

There is also the little matter that nuclear transportation remains a specialist industry. The need for bespoke wagons, two locomotives to guard against failures and the desire not to leave nuclear wagons hanging round in loops / yards for hours means it’s not exactly the most efficient of operations /utilisation of assets and when privatisation was being drawn up it’s quite likely someone in Whitehall realised the Government could run into problems if the new owners of BRs freight business decided they wanted to pull out from carrying nuclear traffic.

 

Setting up ‘Direct Rail Services’ as a subsidy of the then 100% Government owned ‘British Nuclear Fuels Ltd’ allowed nuclear transportation to remain firmly in state hands and effectively be kept out of the rail privatisation process.

They hadn't strictly speaking contracted it out - in the commercial/ competitive sense - previously, because the whole lot was nationalised as part of BR. BNFL set DRS up in the prelude to privatisation - in 1994 - because it wished to exert direct control over this part of its operations, and EWS wasn't established until the following year, so in the chronological sense DRS pre-empted the sale of the three freight businesses (and RES).

 

The reason was no doubt one of guaranteeing continuity of service in the period of uncertainty over what would ultimately be the fate of the FOCs. As has been mentioned up-thread, of course, BNFL then did go on to contract out certain specific traffic back to EWS.

Thanks for this. I had a feeling it would be security and not wanting to entrust the work to a privatised outside organisation but wasn't completely sure. In summary, is it perhaps more accurate to say that EWS inherited the flask traffic from BR Railfreight at privatisation and ran some of it for a bit before it became directly operated again, as opposed to being contracted as I previously phrased it?

[AMJ]

Nice photos, I know that in certain locations friends who like to photograph the trains have had collar felt whilst taking them.

[phil-b259]

Thanks for this. I had a feeling it would be security and not wanting to entrust the work to a privatised outside organisation but wasn't completely sure. In summary, is it perhaps more accurate to say that EWS inherited the flask traffic from BR Railfreight at privatisation and ran some of it for a bit before it became directly operated again, as opposed to being contracted as I previously phrased it?

 

Yup, thats the gist of it.

 

Of course DRS then subsequently looked to diversify leading to todays situation where they have invested in state of the art locos and have contracts to supply motive power to TPE & Chiltern.

 

However the strange bit is they are still 100% owned by the UK Government (via the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority) - even though it is Tory party policy to flog off absolutely everything they can (witness the demand from the Treasury that NR sell off its property division for short term gain rather than seeing it as something to provide a steady income over the long term) and the non nuclear activities of DRS could generate a nice cash windfall.

[long island jack]

Early DRS years were just as varied!!

 

 

 

Ray

[009 micro modeller]

Yup, thats the gist of it.

 

Of course DRS then subsequently looked to diversify leading to todays situation where they have invested in state of the art locos and have contracts to supply motive power to TPE & Chiltern.

 

However the strange bit is they are still 100% owned by the UK Government (via the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority) - even though it is Tory party policy to flog off absolutely everything they can (witness the demand from the Treasury that NR sell off its property division for short term gain rather than seeing it as something to provide a steady income over the long term) and the non nuclear activities of DRS could generate a nice cash windfall.

Another interesting bit is their claim that they only take on other work because it helps the flask traffic to be viable.

Edited September 19, 2018 by 009 micro modeller

[pb_devon]

The latest Railway Magazine has this entry (page 54) in the "From the RM Archives" section: "From August 29 [1998], Sellafield based Direct Rail Services took over all nuclear flask traffic following the winning of the haulage contract."

 

Not sure if that adds anything!