Dapol departmental wagons

[Pinehill]

I have come across a Dapol limited edition departmental 7 plank wagon & was wondering what year(s) they might have been on the system in departmental service? Would they have still been in BR markings with BR numbers in say 1958/59 or would they have been in departmental service & accordingly renumbered at this time?

Many thanks.

[John Isherwood]

I have come across a Dapol limited edition departmental 7 plank wagon & was wondering what year(s) they might have been on the system in departmental service? Would they have still been in BR markings with BR numbers in say 1958/59 or would they have been in departmental service & accordingly renumbered at this time?

Many thanks.

 

A photo would help with identification but, in the absence of such, I'd put money on it being yet another Dapol flight of fancy !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Pinehill]

A photo would help with identification but, in the absence of such, I'd put money on it being yet another Dapol flight of fancy !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I was wondering that John! It is a model for Modellbahn of a Wolverhampton Plant & Machinery Dept wagon in brown livery & numbered ADR486709. I have tried to find that number mentioned anywhere but no luck. I model 1958/59 so I need it to be valid for those dates.

Cheers.

[petethemole]

Here's the "prototype" https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandiseowvcorrugated/h18e1dd70#h18e1dd70.   As I suspected it would be, the original was a 5 plank wagon.

[John Isherwood]

I was wondering that John! It is a model for Modellbahn of a Wolverhampton Plant & Machinery Dept wagon in brown livery & numbered ADR486709. I have tried to find that number mentioned anywhere but no luck. I model 1958/59 so I need it to be valid for those dates.

Cheers.

 

I can't find the model via Google.

 

A few observations :-

 

i] BR painted its departmental wagons black with straw yellow lettering;

 

ii] the ADR-prefix was not used in the 1950s (or 60s?);

 

iii] a 7-plank wagon would most likely be ex-PO - in which case it would have a DP-prefix number.

 

I would love to be proved wrong, but I strongly doubt that this model has any more authenticity than a four pound note.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Dungrange]

John,

 

I suspect you are right.  A link to a photograph of the model found on Google!!

 

https://www.tennentstrains.co.uk/rolling-stock/wagons/mu2990010-7-plank-wagon-plant-and-machinery-dept.-wolverhampton/

[Fat Controller]

I can't find the model via Google.

 

A few observations :-

 

i] BR painted its departmental wagons black with straw yellow lettering;

 

ii] the ADR-prefix was not used in the 1950s (or 60s?);

 

iii] a 7-plank wagon would most likely be ex-PO - in which case it would have a DP-prefix number.

 

I would love to be proved wrong, but I strongly doubt that this model has any more authenticity than a four pound note.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Ex-traffic Departmental wagons were often left in their original livery, with a painted-on prefix to the number, along with whatever routing/ownership instructions might apply to it.

Three-letter number prefixes coincided with the introduction of TOPS; previously, there was simply the 'D' prefix and a painted allocation to a Department

The only ex-traffic Departmentals of seven or more planks that I'm aware of were the ex-SR eight-plant ones.

[The Johnster]

Pre TOPs, DW = per way, DS = S & T, DE = engineering etc.  S & T AFAIK had no wagons of their own design built for their use, and relied on handmedowns from traffic. a wonderful ragbag of museum pieces and antiquated wagonry.  They were most used for S & T stores transport and recovery of scrap materials, dropside opens being preferred

Edited August 24, 2018 by The Johnster

[Pinehill]

Thank you everybody, answered my questions!

I wonder why the manufacturers bother producing a possibly incorrect model! Why not get a reliable photograph &/or data & go from there & give us something accurate or very close to the original. Anyway saved me a little cash to put towards something else!

What a knowledgeable & helpful bunch you all are!

Cheers.

[John Isherwood]

Pre TOPs, DW = per way, DS = S & T, DE = engineering etc.  S & T AFAIK had no wagons of their own design built for their use, and relied on handmedowns from traffic. a wonderful ragbag of museum pieces and antiquated wagonry.  They were most used for S & T stores transport and recovery of scrap materials, dropside opens being preferred

 

'Fraid not.

 

DW = departmental ex-GWR wagon

 

DS = departmental ex-SR wagon

 

DM = departmental ex-LMS wagon

 

DE = departmental ex-LNER wagon

 

DP = departmental ex-PO wagon

 

DB = departmental BR wagon

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[John Isherwood]

I wonder why the manufacturers bother producing a possibly incorrect model! Why not get a reliable photograph &/or data & go from there & give us something accurate or very close to the original.

 

Because Dapol maximise the potential of existing tooling, with no regard for accuracy whatsoever.

 

They manage to sell them to those with little prototype knowledge - so who (at Dapol) cares?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

'Fraid not.

 

DW = departmental ex-GWR wagon

 

DS = departmental ex-SR wagon

 

DM = departmental ex-LMS wagon

 

DE = departmental ex-LNER wagon

 

DP = departmental ex-PO wagon

 

DB = departmental BR wagon

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

i stand duly corrected and mildly chastised, John; information useful.

[Pinehill]

Because Dapol maximise the potential of existing tooling, with no regard for accuracy whatsoever.

 

They manage to sell them to those with little prototype knowledge - so who (at Dapol) cares?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Are their banana vans reasonably accurate John?

[The Johnster]

'Fraid not.

 

DW = departmental ex-GWR wagon

 

DS = departmental ex-SR wagon

 

DM = departmental ex-LMS wagon

 

DE = departmental ex-LNER wagon

 

DP = departmental ex-PO wagon

 

DB = departmental BR wagon

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Because Dapol maximise the potential of existing tooling, with no regard for accuracy whatsoever.

 

They manage to sell them to those with little prototype knowledge - so who (at Dapol) cares?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

There's Dapol and Dapol, and it depends on which actual model you are talking about.  Recent locos seem to be well reviewed and look pretty accurate to me, but I wasted impulse buy money last year on a steel open which was not only incorrect in every body dimension and sported a moulded handbrake lever (I believe the roots of this abomination lay in Hornby Dublo, and we've moved on a bit since then) but carried an incorrect plastic coal load which could not be removed without removing the screw that attached it to the wagon floor, which of course sports a massive screw hole in it as a result.  I cut my losses and binned it, the screw hole making it useless even as a small bits container!

 

I think the root of the problem is that Dap are too small scale a manufacturer to rid themselves of the older inaccurate toys as they need the income from them to prop up investment in new models.  But I am now very wary of any of their stuff; they mildly redeemed themselves with a Fruit D, also I believe a HD model originally, but which has at least been improved with a decent underframe though the brake blocks are just as out of alignment with the wheels as HD's were.  But check before you buy; I believe the banana van is another HD offering and the body is not too bad; it's worth as a current model will depend on the underframe.  NEM couplers act as an indicator.

 

i am reasonably confident that the issues with the 5101 will be sorted before the model hits the shops and am definitely in the market for one!

Edited August 24, 2018 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

If you want a departmental wagon from Dapol for a BR era layout, go for a Grampus - very much one of their better efforts.

 

John

[Fat Controller]

Are their banana vans reasonably accurate John?

Bodies yes; chassis no. The only major thing I found with the body is that, like the Vanfit, they have a moulded flat panel on the bottom left-hand corner of either side. This was to allow them to have somewhere to put the wagon details; they used a curious technique of having the text in 'negative, presumably so that someone could paint the whole panel white, then wipe clean, leaving the paint in the recessed bits. More intrepid souls than I have hacked this away. I value my finger-tips too much.

The prototype chassi used 8-shoe brake gear; Red Panda used to do a suitable one, distributed by Parkside. Since Parkside went to Peco, I don't know what's become of them.

[Dunsignalling]

Bodies yes; chassis no. The only major thing I found with the body is that, like the Vanfit, they have a moulded flat panel on the bottom left-hand corner of either side. This was to allow them to have somewhere to put the wagon details; they used a curious technique of having the text in 'negative, presumably so that someone could paint the whole panel white, then wipe clean, leaving the paint in the recessed bits. More intrepid souls than I have hacked this away. I value my finger-tips too much.

The prototype chassi used 8-shoe brake gear; Red Panda used to do a suitable one, distributed by Parkside. Since Parkside went to Peco, I don't know what's become of them.

Red Panda chassis kits: try www.hamodels.net

 

John

[hmrspaul]

John,

 

I suspect you are right.  A link to a photograph of the model found on Google!!

 

https://www.tennentstrains.co.uk/rolling-stock/wagons/mu2990010-7-plank-wagon-plant-and-machinery-dept.-wolverhampton/

I like to see my photos turned into models. So am sad when they are abused.

 

Mind, I don't think this is a bad effort - simply altering the ADB to DP and knocking off the final number to make it only 5 figures would make a fictitious but passable attempt. Also remove the 65082 - that is a TOPS location code so too late for your period.

 

Nowhere near as awful as the Set of china clay wagons, departmental weathered 33-079Z which Bachmann did for Invicta. Using my photos they squeezed the extensive writing onto 1ft shorter (correct for a china clay) wagon which also has an end door and lengthwise floor planks. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76112-invicta-model-rail-announce-new-limited-editions-translator-coaches-st-opens/ post 19

 

Paul

 

PS - the Banana is, of course, an ex Hornby Dublo wagon introduced about 1962 or thereabouts. Body is a good model for its day but as John says has the number incised into the bottom left corner.

Edited August 25, 2018 by hmrspaul