Adding sound decoders to 00 locos

[GreenDiesel]

I posted a question on here recently (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135930-dccsound-on-a-small-00-layout/) about purchasing and adding DCC sound-equipped locos and then running them on my DC layout. 

 

I just realized that I probably could add sound decoders to some of my locos that I've purchased fairly recently. For example, I have a Hornby Black Five and a Bachmann Pannier Tank, both purchased new within the past 5 years. How difficult or expensive would it be to add sound decoders to either one of these locos, and then run them on my DC shunting layout, etc.?

 

I'm pretty sure this is possible and not that hard, but I've never really paid attention to this as I haven't really considered it until now.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Well, of course you can.

 

But installing sound decoders that cost much the same as a modest DCC system which would allow you to get the best out of them is frankly perverse. Just for a start, without a DCC system you cannot verify correct decoder installation, and if the installation is faulty that's often a decoder gone up in smoke. After several hundred decoder installs fifteen years in with DCC, I still don't skip the programme track verification step.  

[SRman]

I agree with 34C above. However, if you must do the sound installations, the modern Hornby Black 5 should be quite easy to fit, whereas the Pannier tank will probably provide more of a challenge, mainly due to lack of space.

[John Tomlinson]

I posted a question on here recently (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135930-dccsound-on-a-small-00-layout/) about purchasing and adding DCC sound-equipped locos and then running them on my DC layout. 

 

I just realized that I probably could add sound decoders to some of my locos that I've purchased fairly recently. For example, I have a Hornby Black Five and a Bachmann Pannier Tank, both purchased new within the past 5 years. How difficult or expensive would it be to add sound decoders to either one of these locos, and then run them on my DC shunting layout, etc.?

 

I'm pretty sure this is possible and not that hard, but I've never really paid attention to this as I haven't really considered it until now.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Rob

 

If your objective is simply to be able to run a few sound locos once in a while, but without full DCC, you might look at the Gaugemaster Tech6 control unit, which allows operation on DC or DCC changing by the press of a button. These are around £100 from the likes of Rails or Hattons.

 

My own layout is essentially two large independent circuits, and on one of them I've rigged up a Tech6, and this allows me to run sound locos if I want with full sound functions. It is however restricted to one loco address, so you can't have several locos operating independently, but as I just run mainline trains with no shunting this doesn't matter to me.

 

The system suits me, as I've been able to dabble in sound a bit, which I find quite fun but not much more. As a bonus, the DC running with the Tech6 is better than any controller I've ever had, even my old Lima stuff seems quite sweet with it!

 

John.

[GreenDiesel]

If your objective is simply to be able to run a few sound locos once in a while, but without full DCC, you might look at the Gaugemaster Tech6 control unit, which allows operation on DC or DCC changing by the press of a button. These are around £100 from the likes of Rails or Hattons.

 

My own layout is essentially two large independent circuits, and on one of them I've rigged up a Tech6, and this allows me to run sound locos if I want with full sound functions. It is however restricted to one loco address, so you can't have several locos operating independently, but as I just run mainline trains with no shunting this doesn't matter to me.

 

The system suits me, as I've been able to dabble in sound a bit, which I find quite fun but not much more. As a bonus, the DC running with the Tech6 is better than any controller I've ever had, even my old Lima stuff seems quite sweet with it!

 

John.

 

Thanks, John. This is helpful -- the Gaugemaster Tech6 sounds really good, especially if it can operate in both modes.  I'm in Canada but I have ordered from Hattons, etc., in the past.  Alternatively, I could try to source one of these here as well. This would be great to improve smooth running.  

 

I'm on a bit of a budget right now, so I'm hoping to add all of these improvements gradually. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I currently have a small 1x4' switching layout in 00 (it's actually slightly smaller than 1x4!).  I'm not too fussed about DCC but really love the sound.  

Thanks for this feedback -- I'll continue to look into this over the next few weeks/months.

[John Tomlinson]

Thanks, John. This is helpful -- the Gaugemaster Tech6 sounds really good, especially if it can operate in both modes.  I'm in Canada but I have ordered from Hattons, etc., in the past.  Alternatively, I could try to source one of these here as well. This would be great to improve smooth running.  

 

I'm on a bit of a budget right now, so I'm hoping to add all of these improvements gradually. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I currently have a small 1x4' switching layout in 00 (it's actually slightly smaller than 1x4!).  I'm not too fussed about DCC but really love the sound.  

Thanks for this feedback -- I'll continue to look into this over the next few weeks/months.

 

Just for info, I think much of the Gaugemaster stuff is manufactured in the USA, the Tech6 certainly is, and so there may well be a US equivalent more easily available on your side of the Pond, even if a different country.(Do you still have NAFTA?)

 

In my own case my choices have been governed by the fact that I have a lot of locos (maybe around 150?) acquired over four decades, and there's no way I'd be prepared to undertake the work, or the expense, to chip them. My layout equally is built in the old fashioned way of sections, I certainly haven't a wire to each rail, nor even polarity switching on my electrofrog points, but amazingly (if you read some comments on here) it functions well with very, very few problems. The Tech6 on DCC copes with it fine as well, but I do understand that for full DCC I'd probably need a bit more finesse, and I'm not taking the whole lot up and starting again!

 

Best wishes with your project,

 

John.

Edited August 3, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[melmerby]

Just for info, I think much of the Gaugemaster stuff is manufactured in the USA, the Tech6 certainly

 

John.

It's an MRC Tech 6 (same MRC as other Gaugemaster kit)

 

Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/MRC-Tech-Sound-Controller-2-0/dp/B0012CB978/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533308773&sr=8-1&keywords=MRC+tech+6

 

Keith

Edited August 3, 2018 by melmerby

[GreenDiesel]

Just for info, I think much of the Gaugemaster stuff is manufactured in the USA, the Tech6 certainly is, and so there may well be a US equivalent more easily available on your side of the Pond, even if a different country.(Do you still have NAFTA?)

 

In my own case my choices have been governed by the fact that I have a lot of locos (maybe around 150?) acquired over four decades, and there's no way I'd be prepared to undertake the work, or the expense, to chip them. My layout equally is built in the old fashioned way of sections, I certainly haven't a wire to each rail, nor even polarity switching on my electrofrog points, but amazingly (if you read some comments on here) it functions well with very, very few problems. The Tech6 on DCC copes with it fine as well, but I do understand that for full DCC I'd probably need a bit more finesse, and I'm not taking the whole lot up and starting again!

 

Best wishes with your project,

 

John.

Hi John,

 

Thanks for this. BTW, Donald Trump has created a kind of trade war with Canada, imposing all sorts of tariffs, saying NAFTA is not fair to the US! But that's a huge side topic.

 

I'm in a similar situation to you, but maybe on a smaller scale.  About 19 years ago, I inherited a large HO & 00 collection of model trains from my Dad, which is partly what got me back in model railways. Since then, I've bought several of my own locos, so I have 35-40 -- a mixture of old Dublo, Triang, and now modern Hornby & Bachmann -- and I can't afford to convert all of these to DCC or add sound, etc. That's the main reason why I've held off on the DCC side -- plus, as you say, DC works quite well. 

 

However, I would really like to add 1-2 sound-equipped locos to my switching layout and am willing to tinker with sound and/or DCC on a limited or gradual basic.

 

Thanks, Rob

[orford]

In my own case my choices have been governed by the fact that I have a lot of locos (maybe around 150?) acquired over four decades, and there's no way I'd be prepared to undertake the work, or the expense, to chip them.

 

John.

I never cease to be astonished at the sheer number of locos some people own/have on their layouts. To operate any layout with some degree of realism (and surely that is what creating a model railway is all about), if you have 150 locos, then you should have around 1200 coaches and at least 5000 wagons, representing a reasonable prototype mix. I think from memory that it was the late, great, David Jenkinson who originally pointed this out - and he was right. Layouts look FAR better with an appropriate prototypical mix of locomotives and rolling stock.

 

I am also often bemused by the number of people who say, both here and elsewhere on the net, "I can't possibly afford to chip them all". Yes you can. If you can afford to buy 150 locos in the first place, then you can afford to chip them. That's a bit like saying "I own a Rolls Royce - but can't afford to have it serviced!"

 

In my experience if you want full sound, then DCC is the only sensible way to go. My last 3 layouts have all been DCC with full (Zimo, in my case) sound and I wouldn't dream of going back to the dark old days of DC now. My advice is to get rid of half the locos and use the money raised to convert the rest to DCC and sound and alter the layout as necessary. You will probably still be well in credit at the end of it and will have a far better operating experience, going forward. I did and in modelling terms it was by far the best decision I ever made.

 

[John Tomlinson]

I never cease to be astonished at the sheer number of locos some people own/have on their layouts. To operate any layout with some degree of realism (and surely that is what creating a model railway is all about), if you have 150 locos, then you should have around 1200 coaches and at least 5000 wagons, representing a reasonable prototype mix. I think from memory that it was the late, great, David Jenkinson who originally pointed this out - and he was right. Layouts look FAR better with an appropriate prototypical mix of locomotives and rolling stock.

 

I am also often bemused by the number of people who say, both here and elsewhere on the net, "I can't possibly afford to chip them all". Yes you can. If you can afford to buy 150 locos in the first place, then you can afford to chip them. That's a bit like saying "I own a Rolls Royce - but can't afford to have it serviced!"

 

In my experience if you want full sound, then DCC is the only sensible way to go. My last 3 layouts have all been DCC with full (Zimo, in my case) sound and I wouldn't dream of going back to the dark old days of DC now. My advice is to get rid of half the locos and use the money raised to convert the rest to DCC and sound and alter the layout as necessary. You will probably still be well in credit at the end of it and will have a far better operating experience, going forward. I did and in modelling terms it was by far the best decision I ever made.

 

 

Thanks for your words of advice!

 

The locos aren't all out at one time by any means, perhaps 15 maximum. They cover different eras and styles, as do my coaches. There are roughly 150 wagons available for service, and equally these aren't all out at the same time either. If you look at, for example, Robert Carroll's layout he has a similar approach, although somewhat grander in style.

 

As it happens, I don't want to dispose of any of my stock, and as I said it has been acquired over four decades, hardly any of it at current price points, and some of it for a lot less. Much of it has had my tweaks and mods, and hence my reluctance to sell it on.

 

I don't want to go DCC either, and if you read my post I said I just felt like a dabble in sound, which is fun (for which read a bit gimmicky) and not much more.

 

So as I also said, I'll stick with what I have, which wholly suits me. It may not suit you, and of course you are quite welcome to make your own choices, as am I.

 

John.

Edited August 4, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[SRman]

John, you could wire up a DPDT switch to allow the layout to be switched between DC and DCC, thus only having to chip the locomotives or units you require the extra control - the sound ones will be DCC anyway. I did something like this on my old layout when dabbling with DCC before deciding to take the plunge. That was wired for cab control, so I simply replaced one of the DC 'cabs' with the first DCC system (a Lenz Compact bought very cheaply), switching all track sections to the DCC system when I wanted to run those first few locos I had chipped.

On my current layout, I have a slightly more complex switch* to change only the Underground (i.e. low level) tracks to DC or DCC, so I can run a few of my ancient Triang or Wrenn locos, which will probably never qualify for conversion to DCC. In your case, the DPDT switch sounds (from your description) as if it would meet the requirements of your layout. That way you could have full control of the sound locos, while still maintaining your ability to run all the other items when you wish to. On DC, the sound locos would not have to be removed from the tracks, but on DCC you would have to remove or isolate any non-DCC items.

Just a thought, anyway.

* more complex because I needed to switch the double track to separate DC controls, one for each track, while being able to switch the whole lot to the DCC bus. I also allowed an isolating position on the rotary switch where nothing on the low level is live.

Edited August 4, 2018 by SRman

[John Tomlinson]

John, you could wire up a DPDT switch to allow the layout to be switched between DC and DCC, thus only having to chip the locomotives or units you require the extra control - the sound ones will be DCC anyway. I did something like this on my old layout when dabbling with DCC before deciding to take the plunge. That was wired for cab control, so I simply replaced one of the DC 'cabs' with the first DCC system (a Lenz Compact bought very cheaply), switching all track sections to the DCC system when I wanted to run those first few locos I had chipped.

 

On my current layout, I have a slightly more complex switch* to change only the Underground (i.e. low level) tracks to DC or DCC, so I can run a few of my ancient Triang or Wrenn locos, which will probably never qualify for conversion to DCC. In your case, the DPDT switch sounds (from your description) as if it would meet the requirements of your layout. That way you could have full control of the sound locos, while still maintaining your ability to run all the other items when you wish to. On DC, the sound locos would not have to be removed from the tracks, but on DCC you would have to remove or isolate any non-DCC items.

 

Just a thought, anyway.

 

* more complex because I needed to switch the double track to separate DC controls, one for each track, while being able to switch the whole lot to the DCC bus. I also allowed an isolating position on the rotary switch where nothing on the low level is live.

 

Thanks Jeff. I did wonder how your layout worked as there are a number of references to older stock, and now I know. I do take the point that your switchover allows full control on DCC with different loco addresses.

 

Coming back to the original question, the Gaugemaster Tech6 controller is a strange thing, as it gives out either DC or DCC current and control, the choice simply by pushing a button on the controller itself. The wiring from the controller is common to both systems, just two wires going into the main track feed. It's very important, as you note in your post, not to have DC locos on a live DCC track. I have done this in error momentarily, the buzzing noise gives it away, and fortunately no harm was done! I have one of these on one circuit, and a normal Gaugemaster DC handheld on the other. The Tech6 doesn't seem to like working in DC mode with chipped locos, but in does give excellent running with non-chipped locos, such as ye olde Lima diesels.

 

I thought it might be of interest to "Green Diesel" in answer to his original question, as a kind of half way house, although as you point out there are other perfectly workable ways of achieving the desired result.

 

John.

Edited August 4, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[GreenDiesel]

Thanks Jeff. I did wonder how your layout worked as there are a number of references to older stock, and now I know. I do take the point that your switchover allows full control on DCC with different loco addresses.

 

Coming back to the original question, the Gaugemaster Tech6 controller is a strange thing, as it gives out either DC or DCC current and control, the choice simply by pushing a button on the controller itself. The wiring from the controller is common to both systems, just two wires going into the main track feed. It's very important, as you note in your post, not to have DC locos on a live DCC track. I have done this in error momentarily, the buzzing noise gives it away, and fortunately no harm was done! I have one of these on one circuit, and a normal Gaugemaster DC handheld on the other. The Tech6 doesn't seem to like working in DC mode with chipped locos, but in does give excellent running with non-chipped locos, such as ye olde Lima diesels.

 

I thought it might be of interest to "Green Diesel" in answer to his original question, as a kind of half way house, although as you point out there are other perfectly workable ways of achieving the desired result.

 

John.

 

Thanks, John. Yes, the Tech6 does sound like a good compromise to start off in. So, if the Tech6 is in DC mode, I could run a sound-equipped loco on it, but will probably not get the full range of sound. Cheers, Rob

[John Tomlinson]

Thanks, John. Yes, the Tech6 does sound like a good compromise to start off in. So, if the Tech6 is in DC mode, I could run a sound-equipped loco on it, but will probably not get the full range of sound. Cheers, Rob

 

I perhaps haven't been clear, with the Tech6 you do get a full sound range, but in DCC mode, what you can't have are separate addresses for your DCC stock, they all have to be "3". So you can run one DCC chipped loco on its own with sound, but any others on the layout need to be isolated or removed, otherwise they'll move as well. So it's suited really to someone who just wants to dabble in DCC for sound, and is happy just to have one loco working at a time. By simply pushing a button on the controller, you can change to DC mode in which Tech6 works like any other DC controller. You don't need to get sound on DC mode when the switchover is so simple.

 

If you want a separate address facility on DCC, the method of Jeff - SRman - in #11 may be a better option, although a quality DCC only controller such as a Gaugemaster Prodigy would be somewhat more expensive.

 

John. 

[GreenDiesel]

I perhaps haven't been clear, with the Tech6 you do get a full sound range, but in DCC mode, what you can't have are separate addresses for your DCC stock, they all have to be "3". So you can run one DCC chipped loco on its own with sound, but any others on the layout need to be isolated or removed, otherwise they'll move as well. So it's suited really to someone who just wants to dabble in DCC for sound, and is happy just to have one loco working at a time. By simply pushing a button on the controller, you can change to DC mode in which Tech6 works like any other DC controller. You don't need to get sound on DC mode when the switchover is so simple.

 

If you want a separate address facility on DCC, the method of Jeff - SRman - in #11 may be a better option, although a quality DCC only controller such as a Gaugemaster Prodigy would be somewhat more expensive.

 

John. 

Thanks, John. I was typing a fast reply too late at night without fully digesting the info!  At any rate, the Tech6 sounds ideal for me. I could use it (and obtain slow/fine running) even if I decide to only stay with DC. But it would be great to have one of my locos (probably the Hornby Black 5) sound-chipped so I could enjoy sound on at least one loco, which is what I'm trying to do. Cheers, Rob