SouthernBlue80s Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Are there any detail differences Older v New models? Or is the tooling for them all the same? For example the older Hornby 56s are less detailed than the newer 'superdetail' ones. I am after two rail blue examples with indicator discs. Thanks Steve Edited August 1, 2018 by SouthernBlue80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 (edited) Yes they are less detailed and have different motors etc as well Also 56's never had indicator discs - now i've re read the title i see you are after 20's not 56's! Brian Edited August 1, 2018 by girlinb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Thanks Brian I am after two 20s with indicator discs That means I need to go for newer models Anyone know which was the first rail blue model with the newer tooling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 For 20's its any Bachmann ones, the Hornby versions are just updated Lima with the same body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 Steve Not sure about the body but wouldn't mind betting 8 pin vs 21 pin dcc will give you a clue Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Steve Not sure about the body but wouldn't mind betting 8 pin vs 21 pin dcc will give you a clue Phil Thanks Phil Looks like I go for the newer version then. (Has much happened with Abbotswood Jct - Happy with your HTVs?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 8 pin and 21 pin Bachmann are the same, they just updated any 8 pin chassis to 21 pin over the years. There is a new version with lights due though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 Steve - HTVs or HUOs? If its the latter they are awesome although have not had chance to run them yet.... And no layout progress - Warship fleet has soaked up available finances! Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 8 pin and 21 pin Bachmann are the same, they just updated any 8 pin chassis to 21 pin over the years. There is a new version with lights due though The roof fan disappeared on newer versions to allow for speaker fittings. Lights will only for those representing 20s that got upgraded into the 21st century. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Didn´t realise you had moved on to HUOs. We were both building Parkside Dundas HTVs at same time a while back Anyway all the best and thanks for the class 20 advice Steve And here are a couple with a 31 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted August 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2018 AH - forgot the HTVs- we have a couple built which run in a mixed rake with Hornby ex LNER jobbies The Hornbys have so much wheel drag that the kits struggle to stay on the track - will be diluting the hornbys with Accurascale HUOs which may improve matters.... Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bendall Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 In terms of detail, the more recent Bachmann 20s have a much better roof fan grille and the exhaust ports are also more accurate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The roof fan disappeared on newer versions to allow for speaker fittings. Lights will only for those representing 20s that got upgraded into the 21st century. The NRM/Locomotion Models D8000 in original condition had a batch with lights and sound. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted August 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2018 The first batch of 20s had sliding cab side windows, which didn't look very good. These were replaced with better looking fixed windows on later batches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The first batch of 20s had sliding cab side windows, which didn't look very good. These were replaced with better looking fixed windows on later batches. I agree If you see a 20063 advertised - steer clear it has the poorer cabside windows https://picclick.co.uk/Bachmann-32-025-CLASS-20-BR-blue-20063-202335552881.html#&gid=1&pid=1 By comparison 20052 https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/268-new-Bachmann-class-20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Agree - if i recall correctly Bach released 4 blue 20s initially - 2 with discs and 2 with boxes. All 4 had inferior roof fan grilles (recessed and very coarse), combined with sliding cab windows which were recessed and looked poor. Additionally the brake rigging was missing on the bogies. For next set of releases (RF red stripe I believe) this was amended with better grilles and windows, and with the brake rigging. I'm not aware of any major differences externally since then with all subsequent blue ones being of same standard as the RF red stripe ones. As a general rule I would avoid the first batch (unless really good price and you're prepared to do some minor upgrade work). IF my memory serves me correct the first batch were 20063, 20058, 20192 & 202xx in blue. I cannot comment on the green ones as never paid any attention not being my era but would assume there is a parallel there? M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3109 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Slight deviation, but still relevant. Many locos appear to have been retrofitted with deeper side windows, my query is were any EE Type 1s delivered like that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
girlinb Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Slight deviation, but still relevant. Many locos appear to have been retrofitted with deeper side windows, my query is were any EE Type 1s delivered like that? Yes, 20028-34 and 20070-127 were new with deeper side windows - for Scottish region depots. Not sure if any were retrofitted with them though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 The first batch of 20s had sliding cab side windows, which didn't look very good. These were replaced with better looking fixed windows on later batches. I had forgotten about this. Two of mine were early ones with those sliding windows, but I cut and filed them to sit flush with the openings like the later models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) Bogies are slightly different on the very early batches, no brake detail was fitted, which appeared later, possibly at the same time cab side windows changed. Edited August 4, 2018 by The Ghost of IKB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Slight deviation, but still relevant. Many locos appear to have been retrofitted with deeper side windows, my query is were any EE Type 1s delivered like that? Yes, 20028-34 and 20070-127 were new with deeper side windows - for Scottish region depots. Not sure if any were retrofitted with them though As girlinb says, they were delivered new with the deeper side windows so the footplate crew could set and retrieve tokens from the apparatus in the recess below. Gradually the equipment was removed (perhaps some were never fitted ?) and the recesses was plated over at works overhauls. this might be why you think the deeper windows were retrofitted. AFAIK no cab swaps took place and I doubt any locos ever had serious damage enough to warrant cab rebuiding with different side windows, although someone will know for sure. The Bachmann green class 20s seem to have had the later "improved" cab windows - all of mine are OK, although mine are all older unlit versions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 As girlinb says, they were delivered new with the deeper side windows so the footplate crew could set and retrieve tokens from the apparatus in the recess below. Gradually the equipment was removed (perhaps some were never fitted ?) The first batch were fitted with tablet catcher equipment. The second batch starting at D8070 were not fitted, they just had empty recesses. As far as I am aware, none of them ever received catchers, but I may be wrong. Cue someone posting a phot of one..... ps Bachmann made a model of a second batch member incorrectly fitted with catchers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waverley47708 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I agree If you see a 20063 advertised - steer clear it has the poorer cabside windows https://picclick.co.uk/Bachmann-32-025-CLASS-20-BR-blue-20063-202335552881.html#&gid=1&pid=1 By comparison 20052 https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/268-new-Bachmann-class-20 The one at Rails was for sale for £39.50, I could not believe my eyes then I noticed this was from 13 years ago, current price around £100. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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