Sound Decoders

[WIMorrison]

Do sound decoders need to have a motor attached to make them play sounds?

 

I have seen some Hornby TTS ones that are reasonably cheap (~£30) which if I can use without a motor I can place at strategic points e.g stations, under the baseboard and play sounds that match the station such as whistles or horns. Clearly I cant get chuffing - or at least not synchronised, but it may be enough to get some starting sounds however I need to know if I can use them without a motor attached.

 

Thanks

[Albie the plumber]

Do sound decoders need to have a motor attached to make them play sounds?

 

I have seen some Hornby TTS ones that are reasonably cheap (~£30) which if I can use without a motor I can place at strategic points e.g stations, under the baseboard and play sounds that match the station such as whistles or horns. Clearly I cant get chuffing - or at least not synchronised, but it may be enough to get some starting sounds however I need to know if I can use them without a motor attached.

 

Thanks

  I remember having a sound chipped 03 that sounded but wouldn't move .

  This was because either the Grey or Orange wire going to the motor had become detached .

 

  So I would say there doesn't have to be a motor , the decoder  just has to have the red / black pick up wires connected to the track BUS 

[Izzy]

Yes. I have a TTS installed in one loco as function only for the sound and also just tested one by hooking it up to the track supply so I think what you are proposing is perfectly feasible - so long as you can juggle several decoder addresses at the same time!

 

Izzy

[wiggy1]

If its a steam sound then you need a motor attached to get the chuffs.

 

Wiggy.

[WIMorrison]

Yes. I have a TTS installed in one loco as function only for the sound and also just tested one by hooking it up to the track supply so I think what you are proposing is perfectly feasible - so long as you can juggle several decoder addresses at the same time!

 

Izzy

 

I can't juggle the numbers but I know a computer that can

Edited July 31, 2018 by WIMorrison

[RAF96]

I would say Yes as their Valenta HST is a double sound loco.

Rob

[pauliebanger]

If its a steam sound then you need a motor attached to get the chuffs.

 

Wiggy.

 

Maybe you need a motor to generate chuffs if it's an ESU Loksound, but not if it's a ZIMO or TTS.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[wiggy1]

Maybe you need a motor to generate chuffs if it's an ESU Loksound, but not if it's a ZIMO or TTS.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

Thats strange.

It was a Zimo one I was talking about and I had a Hornby A4 with a faulty motor with TTS fitted and that did not chuff either as it did not move.

Ho well every day a school day.

Must be a faulty Zimo decoder.

 

Best regards.

 

Wiggy.

[SRman]

Steam on ESU may require a load on it. I had a Hornby T9 with an ESU that went faulty in reverse, with no drive to the motor. Forwards was fine, but in reverse the loco didn't move and the chuffs just ran away at high speed; so, in a sense, the chuffing worked with no load but not controllably or convincingly.

Diesel sounds don't seem to cause any problems though, as there are several projects that involve a powered and a dummy car at opposite ends of a train; HSTs have been mentioned but there's also the IEP unit, and Voyagers and Sprinters can be treated this way too, and to a lesser extent, even push-pull items like class 90 + DVT or class 33 + 4TC, although those last two don't involve engine sounds in the trailers.

[charliepetty]

Steam on ESU may require a load on it. I had a Hornby T9 with an ESU that went faulty in reverse, with no drive to the motor. Forwards was fine, but in reverse the loco didn't move and the chuffs just ran away at high speed; so, in a sense, the chuffing worked with no load but not controllably or convincingly.

 

Diesel sounds don't seem to cause any problems though, as there are several projects that involve a powered and a dummy car at opposite ends of a train; HSTs have been mentioned but there's also the IEP unit, and Voyagers and Sprinters can be treated this way too, and to a lesser extent, even push-pull items like class 90 + DVT or class 33 + 4TC, although those last two don't involve engine sounds in the trailers.

I have done 2 X T9s on ESU with no issues, the ran fine.    Charlie

[pauliebanger]

Thats strange.

It was a Zimo one I was talking about and I had a Hornby A4 with a faulty motor with TTS fitted and that did not chuff either as it did not move.

Ho well every day a school day.

Must be a faulty Zimo decoder.

 

Best regards.

 

Wiggy.

 

Wiggy,

 

The reason why TTS can be used without a motor is due to the way the chuffs are played. (And also why they cannot be altered to sync with wheel revs).

 

ZIMO decoders do actually produce the chuffs from putting together individual chuff sounds using the BEMF measurements or external trigger (if fitted and set up). They will, however, produce chuffs without a motor which follow the throttle setting variations but CV58 (I think from memory) must be CV58 = 0.

 

The point is largely not relevant as the OP has expressed his opinion elsewhere that programable sound decoders are too expensive for his needs.

 

The fact that ZIMO decoders can have several different sound projects co-existing on the same decoder, ('Blank' ZIMOs come with 6 steam and one diesel engine as standard), so it can be switched from steam to diesel to electric as often as necessary. In this way utilising a single decoder where otherwise several less expensive decoders with different sounds loaded would be needed for different locos would be a more economic alternative (if DCC sound decoders are the chosen format).

 

 

As you say, every day is a learning opportunity. No doubt you know more about ESU's than I do.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[WIMorrison]

Wiggy,

…..

 

The point is largely not relevant as the OP has expressed his opinion elsewhere that programable sound decoders are too expensive for his needs.

 

The fact that ZIMO decoders can have several different sound projects co-existing on the same decoder, ('Blank' ZIMOs come with 6 steam and one diesel engine as standard), so it can be switched from steam to diesel to electric as often as necessary. In this way utilising a single decoder where otherwise several less expensive decoders with different sounds loaded would be needed for different locos would be a more economic alternative (if DCC sound decoders are the chosen format).

...

 

Paul

 

This sounds interesting and attractive - the cost wouldn't work for me if I was putting one in each loco but if these Zimo would run without a motor then I can see the sense in doing it this way to get decent sounds, and if it did need a motor then I guess I could mount one with the decoder under the board, or even just put a resistor across the terminals to give a load.

 

What Zimo decoder would you recommend? I would really like to have several loco sounds that I can call up, 2-3 steam whistles and 2-3 diesel horns would - anything else a bonus

 

When a decoder says 4 - 8 ohms, could I use 2x8 ohm in parallel o get the 4 ohm? and do they have to be loco speakers or would normal speakers work?

[pauliebanger]

This sounds interesting and attractive - the cost wouldn't work for me if I was putting one in each loco but if these Zimo would run without a motor then I can see the sense in doing it this way to get decent sounds, and if it did need a motor then I guess I could mount one with the decoder under the board, or even just put a resistor across the terminals to give a load.

 

What Zimo decoder would you recommend? I would really like to have several loco sounds that I can call up, 2-3 steam whistles and 2-3 diesel horns would - anything else a bonus

 

When a decoder says 4 - 8 ohms, could I use 2x8 ohm in parallel o get the 4 ohm? and do they have to be loco speakers or would normal speakers work?

 

Better still, if you intend to fit a motor under the board anyway, run it and the loco on the track in consist and you will get a greater degree of sync than you would with a loco mounted TTS! Sound would respond to throttle changes and brakes.

 

See here for one I helped with earlier:

 

http://www.12admrg.co.uk/dcc-soundcard.html

 

There is a thread on here too, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

Any ZIMO sound decoder will do (they all have the same amount of memory) so go for one with the greatest power output you can afford - MX645R 3W or MX696 10W

 

Where you get your decoder from is up to you, but not all projects are created equal and you can only get mine from Digitrains.

 

Use any speaker(s) but ensure total impedance is no lower than 4 Ohms. Or output to an amplifier if you prefer. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Mike Storey]

I believe you can now buy freight rolling stock fitted with cheap sound decoders, that you just hitch up behind any (appropriate) loco, these days. They are activated by movement alone. Perhaps that is a half-way house solution to your needs?

 

Personally, and I recognise that cost is a major factor and thus not available to many, I insert sound decoders (especially with the latest generation) in order to improve the train driving experience (driving to the sounds, and equally restricted by the sounds) and not just for the background sound effect. But, given the very expensive addition that means to a large fleet (or even a modest one like mine), it has to be a decision based on available funds and what floats your boat.