Tour de France 2018-19

[iak]

Bless ITV4, as soon as I saw Gilbert start the descent I thought, someone is gonna come a cropper. Lo and behold, ad break, return from, he's over the wall.

 

Has happened with annoying frequency with Geraint on both La Tour and the Olympics, his current position has hopefully made him more magnetic to the bike/pedals/road.

 

I can't comment on any 1995 tragedy, but I recall a particularly unfortunate rider that went into a barbed-wire fence.

 

C6T.

Rigobert Uran I think had the argument with the wire. Taken out by an official car frae memory... Edited July 24, 2018 by iak

[jonny777]

Yes, the way they tackle descents is actually quite startling, especially in the wet or on gritty roads. They do reach 70+ kmph don't they?

A question if I may. What is this spectator(s) running, with pants/shorts pulled down below pelvis to reveal arse crack to the riders, all about?

P

 

 

Watch Roman Bardet on the Dauphine a few years ago.....

 

Although it is not so worrying now, because you know he is still alive, it was scary then. 

 

 

https://youtu.be/zj-8Vwfjrxo

[Mike at C&M]

And anyone who was watching Eurosport's coverage in 1995 (like myself) would have feared tragic history was about to repeat itself. 

I believe Gilbert's crash was just around the corner from where Casartelli crashed in 1995. A horrible image to have etched in one's memory.

[jonny777]

I believe Gilbert's crash was just around the corner from where Casartelli crashed in 1995. A horrible image to have etched in one's memory.

 

 

 

The most horrible image to have etched in the memory, was Wouter Weylandt's crash on the Giro.  For some reason the motorbike cameraman zoomed in on him lying on the road, and then the motorbike stopped and he went close up.

 

I will not go into any detail, but I can understand what post traumatic stress disorder is all about. 

[DIW]

Bless ITV4, as soon as I saw Gilbert start the descent I thought, someone is gonna come a cropper. Lo and behold, ad break, return from, he's over the wall.

 

Has happened with annoying frequency with Geraint on both La Tour and the Olympics, his current position has hopefully made him more magnetic to the bike/pedals/road.

 

I can't comment on any 1995 tragedy, but I recall a particularly unfortunate rider that went into a barbed-wire fence.

 

C6T.

 

 

Rigobert Uran I think had the argument with the wire. Taken out by an official car frae memory...

 

I read on a cycling website this past week that the compensation payment from the car driver's insurers had just come through, approx 3 years late. Can't tell which site it was now; I was following links from links after googling something about Tour de France rules.

[EddieB]

As an outsider, I think Alaphillipe has a chance, he's coming on well as a well distributed rider.

 

Mike.

Agreed. Much more to him than the French not putting all their oeufs in one Bardet...

[Mallard60022]

Watch Roman Bardet on the Dauphine a few years ago.....

 

Although it is not so worrying now, because you know he is still alive, it was scary then. 

 

 

Bloody hell..................... OK so he knew it off by heart but  he couldn't have given a toss about road surface etc.

P

[Enterprisingwestern]

Bloody hell..................... OK so he knew it off by heart but  he couldn't have given a toss about road surface etc.

P

 

Just as well he had brown shorts on methinks!

 

Mike.

[Mallard60022]

Today is going to be very, very interesting. I do hope the idiots have been locked away. I believe this is the first time such a Stage has been used in Le Tour?

What a great win yesterday as well. I was pleased for the lad.

P 

[Joseph_Pestell]

Bloody hell..................... OK so he knew it off by heart but  he couldn't have given a toss about road surface etc.

P

 

Difficult to ride a bike on such a descent. But equally, or perhaps more, difficult to do the same on a motorbike with a cameraman riding pillion.

[njee20]

It was Johnny Hoogerland who got taken out by the TV car, back in 2011 I think it was.

Gilbert was very lucky, shame he’s out. Casartelli hit his (bare) head on the concrete guard wall in 1995, having slid more like Yates’s crash, although it was a bit contentious about whether the fatal blow was on top of his head (and thus would have been protected by a helmet) or not.

Some of the descending is phenomenal - Allaphillipe’s effort yesterday was great. For me I don’t think anyone’s beaten Cancellara’s chase back to the bunch when in the yellow jersey a while back, probably 2009 or so, mainly because he was negotiating the cars as well, insane. Ironically they don’t usually show the fastest guys - as it’s often those at the back desperately trying to avoid the time cut.

Few teams using disc brakes this year still, Trek Segafredo seem to have gone all in, but most others still using rim brakes in the mountains and discs on the flat.

Edited July 25, 2018 by njee20

[Joseph_Pestell]

Bloody hell..................... OK so he knew it off by heart but  he couldn't have given a toss about road surface etc.

P

 

Interesting to see how small the crowds are for the Dauphine. Outside of holiday season of course but, in many ways, a more interesting event than the Tour.

[njee20]

To be fair the crowds are always pretty modest on the descents, it's just not that interesting to watch in person, far better to watch on television where you can actually see who the riders are!

I'm always surprised how small crowds are at the Vuelta.

[Mallard60022]

It was Johnny Hoogerland who got taken out by the TV car, back in 2011 I think it was.

 

Gilbert was very lucky, shame he’s out. Casartelli hit his (bare) head on the concrete guard wall in 1995, having slid more like Yates’s crash, although it was a bit contentious about whether the fatal blow was on top of his head (and thus would have been protected by a helmet) or not.

 

Some of the descending is phenomenal - Allaphillipe’s effort yesterday was great. I don’t think anyone’s beaten Cancellara’s chase back to the bunch when in the yellow jersey a while back, probably 2009 or so. Ironically they don’t usually show the fastest guys - as it’s often those at the back desperately trying to avoid the time cut.

 

Few teams using disc brakes this year still, Trek Segafredo seem to have gone all in, but most others still using rim brakes in the mountains and discs on the flat.

Out of interest, you appear to be an avid cyclist and so may I ask if you have done any of these routes? Must be bl##dy good fun but there will be traffic on them so presumably they need to be done at sensible pace?

Phil

Edited July 25, 2018 by Mallard60022

[Joseph_Pestell]

To be fair the crowds are always pretty modest on the descents, it's just not that interesting to watch in person, far better to watch on television where you can actually see who the riders are!

I'm always surprised how small crowds are at the Vuelta.

It was not the descent that I was thinking of (agreed they are not easy to watch, too quick and not many suitable viewing points). There were very few at the uphill finish and not many at the summit that preceded the descent.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Out of interset, you appear to be an avid cyclist and so may I ask if you have done any of these routes? Must be bl##dy good fun but there will be traffic on them so presumably they need to be done at sensible pace?

Phil

 

I used to be an avid cyclist but not to the level on njee. Much easier in France with so much less traffic on the roads and motorists who are generally quite sympathetic towards cyclists.

 

I have not cycled these passes though - well beyond my abilities even 35 years ago. I have done quite a few of them by car. Surprising how quiet the mountain passes are even in peak holiday season and you do see a few cyclists really going for it.

[njee20]

Out of interset, you appear to be an avid cyclist and so may I ask if you have done any of these routes? Must be bl##dy good fun but there will be traffic on them so presumably they need to be done at sensible pace?

Phil

 

I've been to the Alps, and ridden the Croix de Fer and Alpe d'Huez from this year's route. They're big hills certianly! Alpe d'Huez I actually found really good fun, it's a consistent gradient, and the views are nice!

 

This shows a GPS trace of my time versus Romain Bardet's from this year - I took 1:09, he took 41 minutes! It's a totally linear gain too - he just rides the entire thing 70% quicker than me! A whole bunch of riders (Lilian Calmejain, Jerome Cousin, Daryl Impey) did it in 55:23, so splitting the difference. The slowest I can find this year was Marcus Berghart who did 58 minutes. That was obviously on the back of having ridden 100 miles to get there.

 

Edit: looks like it doesn't show my time if you're not a member of Strava, so lacking context somewhat.

 

My time was good enough for 4,187th out of 19,773 people, so very modest, for context I'm an above average rider in the UK - won a few races, but not so fit these days. Croix de Fer was much tougher, it's long (21km I think) with a couple of sections of descent in the middle, which you obviously then have to climb again. It was pouring with rain, which didn't help!

 

The descents are brilliant fun - I was there in September and there wasn't much traffic, you can generally overtake what traffic there is coming down the mountain roads because you can take much better lines through the corners (where you can see at least). Obviously a lot of drivers aren't really pushing either, they're looking at the views and what not, so you can slip up the inside through the bends. Topped out just over 55mph, coming down from Les Deux Alpes, just across the valley from Alpe d'Huez. Still far slower than the pros though - knowledge that there isn't a big lorry around blind bends helps, plus significantly more skill than I possess! Coming down the bottom bit of the Croix de Fer I took 8 minutes (average of 33mph), Bardet took 5 (average of 48mph) this year!

 

None of the climbs are that steep - the Pyrenees are steeper, and we have significantly steeper stuff in Surrey, it just doesn't go on for more than 10 minutes!

 

A friend was over in Alpe d'Huez to watch the race, and he said it wasn't much fun to ride - just a procession of people on the climb and a stream of cars on the descents, which doesn't sound much fun!

Edited July 25, 2018 by njee20

[eastwestdivide]

When I had a speedo on my bike, I just touched 40mph a couple of times, once on a wide-open downhill in Scotland, and once in the Peak District on gentle curves with good visibility. That was scary enough, and I ended up braking back to a more sensible speed as soon as the visibility was cut or if there were any side turnings/driveways/farm entrances etc. 

Do the pros have less regard for personal safety? Or just a better feel for the road and their equipment.

If you've come off a few times and survived the odd broken bone, does that make you bolder or more timid?

[njee20]

I think it's a bit of both - you can certainly be a lot more confident if you know the road around the corner is clear, not least because you've got double the width to play with, you can 'straight line' a lot more corners.

They've definitely got a lot more understanding of their equipment and the limits thereof, combined with skill around weight distribution, braking, line choice etc.

 

Beyond that they're just very, very brave! Look at some of the crashes they have, I'd just curl up in the foetal position at the side of the road and sob gently, whilst they hop back on as if nothing's happened and ride off! Knowing a few pro riders they're not generally afraid of crashing and getting injured, it just isn't the same disincentive it is for 'normal' people. They accept it as part and parcel of riding, so there's definitely a psychological aspect to it.

[Mallard60022]

I think it's a bit of both - you can certainly be a lot more confident if you know the road around the corner is clear, not least because you've got double the width to play with, you can 'straight line' a lot more corners.

They've definitely got a lot more understanding of their equipment and the limits thereof, combined with skill around weight distribution, braking, line choice etc.

 

Beyond that they're just very, very brave! Look at some of the crashes they have, I'd just curl up in the foetal position at the side of the road and sob gently, whilst they hop back on as if nothing's happened and ride off! Knowing a few pro riders they're not generally afraid of crashing and getting injured, it just isn't the same disincentive it is for 'normal' people. They accept it as part and parcel of riding, so there's definitely a psychological aspect to it.

Applies in all the 'extreme' sports, or extreme versions of sports.

Phil

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Yes, the way they tackle descents is actually quite startling, especially in the wet or on gritty roads. They do reach 70+ kmph don't they?...

 Oh easily. Back in my keen cyclist youth when the UK's roads were quieter my dear old Dawes Galaxy tourer (still have it) has been well over 50mph. (Among other locations, we would go to the Lake District as a group for the joy of hurtling down Dunmail Raise, a decently straight descent. Though the out of season traffic was so much less than today's, we would still have to overtake the flakier products of the UK's motor industry such as Morris Miserables while on the way down.)

[njee20]

Marcus Berghart hit over 130kph in the Tour in 2016, some other stats here. That's nearly 81 mph. Not right.

[jonny777]

I've been to the Alps, and ridden the Croix de Fer and Alpe d'Huez from this year's route. They're big hills certianly! Alpe d'Huez I actually found really good fun, it's a consistent gradient, and the views are nice!

 

This shows a GPS trace of my time versus Romain Bardet's from this year - I took 1:09, he took 41 minutes! It's a totally linear gain too - he just rides the entire thing 70% quicker than me! A whole bunch of riders (Lilian Calmejain, Jerome Cousin, Daryl Impey) did it in 55:23, so splitting the difference. The slowest I can find this year was Marcus Berghart who did 58 minutes. That was obviously on the back of having ridden 100 miles to get there.

 

Edit: looks like it doesn't show my time if you're not a member of Strava, so lacking context somewhat.

 

My time was good enough for 4,187th out of 19,773 people, so very modest, for context I'm an above average rider in the UK - won a few races, but not so fit these days. Croix de Fer was much tougher, it's long (21km I think) with a couple of sections of descent in the middle, which you obviously then have to climb again. It was pouring with rain, which didn't help!

 

The descents are brilliant fun - I was there in September and there wasn't much traffic, you can generally overtake what traffic there is coming down the mountain roads because you can take much better lines through the corners (where you can see at least). Obviously a lot of drivers aren't really pushing either, they're looking at the views and what not, so you can slip up the inside through the bends. Topped out just over 55mph, coming down from Les Deux Alpes, just across the valley from Alpe d'Huez. Still far slower than the pros though - knowledge that there isn't a big lorry around blind bends helps, plus significantly more skill than I possess! Coming down the bottom bit of the Croix de Fer I took 8 minutes (average of 33mph), Bardet took 5 (average of 48mph) this year!

 

None of the climbs are that steep - the Pyrenees are steeper, and we have significantly steeper stuff in Surrey, it just doesn't go on for more than 10 minutes!

 

A friend was over in Alpe d'Huez to watch the race, and he said it wasn't much fun to ride - just a procession of people on the climb and a stream of cars on the descents, which doesn't sound much fun!

 

 

That is impressive stuff. 1:09 for Alpe-Duez is excellent. 

 

As for high speed descents, one quiet Sunday morning in the mid 1970s I cycled from High Wycombe to Beaconsfield and back along the A40. The return journey involves a downhill stretch between Beaconsfield and Loudwater. It is not steep, but it is wide and relatively straight. Racing off down the hill, I soon realised I was rapidly catching an old guy on a moped. I had no speedo therefore no idea of how fast I was going. 

 

I thought about braking and staying behind, but then decided to just overtake him and hope it didn't make him do something stupid. So I did. I don't know what he thought of being passed by a pushbike, but I then realised I was also catching up an Austin 1100; but fortunately the gradient ran out before I came closer than about 40 yards and so I could freewheel behind the car. 

 

Even the A40 on Sunday morning was far quieter than it is now. 

[Mallard60022]

If I see one more Over 50s Insurance or 118 advert I shall swear...............................

P

[eastwestdivide]

If I see one more Over 50s Insurance or 118 advert I shall swear...............................

P

I've got a Pavlovian reaction to the TdF music before the ads - reach for the mute button.

 

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