Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

Thanks for that. Puddlebrook is still holding my attention for now, one reason being its a place right near where the layout is set. There are all kinds of curious and amusing British place names. Over near Spalding I have friends who live at a place called Tongue End. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Any how, as its the season of good cheer and to be merry, here's this.
 

A CHRISTMAS TRADITION.

It was Christmas Day in the workhouse;
The merriest day of the year.
The paupers and the prisoners
Were all assembled there.

In came the Christmas pudding,
When a voice that shattered glass,
Said, "We don't want your Christmas pudding!
So stick it
there with the rest of the unwanted presents."

At the door there came a knocking.

It was a homeless runt.

The Mistress opened up exclaiming,

"Come in from the cold you silly

child, you'll catch your death!"

 

The workhouse Master then arose
And prepared to carve the duck.
He said, "Who wants the parson's nose?"
And the prisoners shouted,
"You have it yourself sir"

The vicar brought his bible
And read out little bits.
Said one old crone at the back of the hall,
"This man gets on
very well with everybody"

The workhouse Mistress then began
To hand out Christmas parcels.
The paupers tore the wrappers off
And began to wipe their
eyes, which were full of tears.

The Master rose to make a speech
But just before he started,

The Mistress, who was fifteen stone
Gave three loud cheers and
nearly choked herself.

And all the paupers then began
To pull their Christmas crackers.
One pauper held his too low down
And blew off both his
paper hat and the man's next to him.

A steaming bowl of white bread sauce
Was handed round to some.
An aged gourmet called aloud
"This bread sauce tastes like
it was made by a continental chef."
 

Mince pie with custard sauce was next
And each received a bit.
One pauper said, "The mince pie's nice
But the custard tastes like
the bread sauce we had in the last verse!"

The Mistress dishing out the food
Dropped custard down her front.
She cried "Aren't I a silly girl?"
And they answered "You're a
perfect picture as always ma'am!"

"This pudding", said the vicar
"Is solid, hard and thick.
How am I going to cut it?"
And a man cried "Use your
penknife sir, the one with the pearl handle."

The Mistress asked the vicar
To entertain his flock
He said "What would you like to see?"
And they cried "Let's see your
conjuring tricks, they're always worth watching."

"Your reverence may I be excused?"
Said one benign old chap.
"I don't like conjuring tricks.
I'd sooner have a
carol or two around the fire."

So then they all began to sing
Which shook the workhouse walls.
"Merry Christmas!" cried the Master
And the inmates shouted
"And a Happy New Year to you as well sir!"

[Martin S-C]

And with a few name changes the latest (and I promise myself - FINAL) layout plan is now this.

The layout building guys are working off-site on the baseboard frames and we should see them arrive and be fitted in early January.

[Annie]

Looking very good Martin.  There is so much potential for interesting and varied operation.  A really lovely and well detailed railway map that rewards close study due to all the detail you've put into it.

[St Enodoc]

And with a few name changes the latest (and I promise myself - FINAL) layout plan is now this.

 

The layout building guys are working off-site on the baseboard frames and we should see them arrive and be fitted in early January.

 

Plan_Eleven_Scenery_Baseboards.png

Very nice Martin. If I may make just one suggestion - how about leading the three storage sidings directly on to the turntable rather than using points? Each siding would gain at least another six inches of usable length that way.

[RedGemAlchemist]

And with a few name changes the latest (and I promise myself - FINAL) layout plan is now this.

 

The layout building guys are working off-site on the baseboard frames and we should see them arrive and be fitted in early January.

 

Plan_Eleven_Scenery_Baseboards.png

Wow. Looking very impressive Martin. Certainly ambitious. Good luck. Edited December 27, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Martin S-C]

Very nice Martin. If I may make just one suggestion - how about leading the three storage sidings directly on to the turntable rather than using points? Each siding would gain at least another six inches of usable length that way.

Hm. Interesting observation. I am ambivalent about that turntable. One is needed to save lifting locos and turning them by hand but in reality it's not there. The storage sidings aka Madder Valley exchange sidings are a fiddle yard, its just that I decided I wanted them open to view for ease of access. The alternative was making the gradient down from Puddlebrook steeper and having them below the baseboard that carries the wood distillation works and quarry. I have experienced fiddle yards set on lower levels on other layouts and heartily dislike them. They gather dust, small details that fall off models don't get noticed, they are hard to work on and so on and so on. In addition I wanted a small empire layout in the Ahern and P D Hancock mould with no off-scene fiddle yard - it just so happened that I couldn't do all that I wanted to do with the concept if I couldn't take trains off scene and bring them back.

 

So really the "exchange sidings" are not really there. I suppose a turntable sitting there with no other loco facilities is already a bit strange so there's no valid argument against your suggestion. In fact it will not only give me longer sidings but save me the cost of a 3-way turnout.

 

Turntables at the ends of platforms were a nice Victorianesque feature as well. I think I will take you up on your suggestion. Thanks.

[Martin S-C]

...and so thusly:

 

 

... *sigh* I do wish I had a foot or two more width though...

[St Enodoc]

Hm. Interesting observation. I am ambivalent about that turntable. One is needed to save lifting locos and turning them by hand but in reality it's not there. The storage sidings aka Madder Valley exchange sidings are a fiddle yard, its just that I decided I wanted them open to view for ease of access. The alternative was making the gradient down from Puddlebrook steeper and having them below the baseboard that carries the wood distillation works and quarry. I have experienced fiddle yards set on lower levels on other layouts and heartily dislike them. They gather dust, small details that fall off models don't get noticed, they are hard to work on and so on and so on. In addition I wanted a small empire layout in the Ahern and P D Hancock mould with no off-scene fiddle yard - it just so happened that I couldn't do all that I wanted to do with the concept if I couldn't take trains off scene and bring them back.

 

So really the "exchange sidings" are not really there. I suppose a turntable sitting there with no other loco facilities is already a bit strange so there's no valid argument against your suggestion. In fact it will not only give me longer sidings but save me the cost of a 3-way turnout.

 

Turntables at the ends of platforms were a nice Victorianesque feature as well. I think I will take you up on your suggestion. Thanks.

 

...and so thusly:

 

Plan_Eleven_Scenery_Baseboards.png

 

... *sigh* I do wish I had a foot or two more width though...

That looks good Martin. Yes, I realised that the storage sidings are in fact a "scenic fiddle yard", hence my suggestion. Much better than a hidden fiddle yard which are a confounded nuisance having experienced them on club layouts in the past - and your steeper gradient would have been a pain too.

[Nearholmer]

Studying closely as post-panto wind-down......

 

I'm wondering whether or not the horizontal clearances are going to work-out properly at the 'bottom' of the plan, especially near the carriage shed.

 

My gut feel is that you might not have allowed quite enough room for what I assume is a retaining wall between the carriage shed/works area and the through line. Have you drawn out full-scale cross-sections for this area?

 

I'm thinking that you might need to loose the road on the upper level that is nearest the retaining wall, in order to give sufficient space for the retaining wall and the cess on the line running at its foot. If so, maybe move the C/S to cover the two roads nearest the back-scene, and have a single road leading to the works, which can then also serve for turning locos and stock.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

Studying closely as post-panto wind-down......

 

I'm wondering whether or not the horizontal clearances are going to work-out properly at the 'bottom' of the plan, especially near the carriage shed.

 

My gut feel is that you might not have allowed quite enough room for what I assume is a retaining wall between the carriage shed/works area and the through line. Have you drawn out full-scale cross-sections for this area?

 

I'm thinking that you might need to loose the road on the upper level that is nearest the retaining wall, in order to give sufficient space for the retaining wall and the cess on the line running at its foot. If so, maybe move the C/S to cover the two roads nearest the back-scene, and have a single road leading to the works, which can then also serve for turning locos and stock.

Sound thoughts Kevin - hence my comment way back on setting out the plan at full size on the shed floor before cutting wood.

[drduncan]

Is a turntable really needed? On a system like this would locos need to be turned? Surely bunker/tender first in one direction would work.

Duncan

[Talltim]

I suppose they might need turning periodically for flange wear (as pretty much all the curves are the same way!) They could use the triangle for that tho’.

[Martin S-C]

Correct Duncan, a turntable would not be needed if this were a real railway.

As noted earlier though, the turntable is a fiddle-yard fiction and just allows locos to be reversed and put on the other end of a train without handling, even if I do use Peco loco lifts. I have chosen a 50ft table deliberately. I can turn a 4-4-0 or 0-6-0 on that but nothing bigger and I now own two of the beautiful Bachmann 4-4-2 Atlantics so if these ever venture onto the system they will need to run light engine back up to the triangle at the works for turning so creating lots of yummy light engine movements.

Its also a couplings thing as well. I'm using the standard Bachmann small tension lock but I especially dislike these on the fronts of locos. I always remove the hook from locos at both ends anyay so I can buffer them up inside loco sheds without the hassle of them coupling, and I then lift the loop a couple of millimetres so a good connection to the single hook on the lead vehicle is made. Even with the hook removed the coupling loop is incongrous. What I really should do is instigate a programme of removing all the proprietry loco loop couplings and making my own of wire, but even then the front curved face of the loop must have a couple of mils of vertical plate on it otherwise the wire loop will just run over the coupling of the lead vehicle and buffer lock on curves if propelling. Due to the lack of width in the railway room I have been forced to accept a 24" radius minimum curve. Not my choice but there we are.

So, long story short, I like to remove the Bachmann loops on the fronts of my tender engines and just have cosmetic screw couplings. I have to retain the loops on freight engines as they'll need to shunt their trains, but the passenger engines should be able to get away without ever having to use the front coupling - hence the turntable. Even so, passenger tender engines arriving at Green Soudley terminus will all have to reverse down the hill to Puddlebrook, then go forward down the further hill to the exchange sidings, be turned, and make their way back up. This inconvenience is deliberate so I can mess about with more light engine movements

[Martin S-C]

Studying closely as post-panto wind-down......

 

I'm wondering whether or not the horizontal clearances are going to work-out properly at the 'bottom' of the plan, especially near the carriage shed.

 

My gut feel is that you might not have allowed quite enough room for what I assume is a retaining wall between the carriage shed/works area and the through line. Have you drawn out full-scale cross-sections for this area?

 

I'm thinking that you might need to loose the road on the upper level that is nearest the retaining wall, in order to give sufficient space for the retaining wall and the cess on the line running at its foot. If so, maybe move the C/S to cover the two roads nearest the back-scene, and have a single road leading to the works, which can then also serve for turning locos and stock.

Yes, you may be right Kevin. I haven't done a full size cross section there. The space north of the railway cottages to the left of the inn is a footpath and the "cottages" in my mind are dwellings plus back yards so we have a typical industrial set of house backs here. I wanted a grimy stone wall along the path with a drop down to the through line - a typical place where urchins could sit and watch trains and be told off for throwing stones down. I wouldn't want to but I think I could lose the footpath, and the dead end road at the N end of the inn and the carriage works can readily be trimmed back.

 

Alternatively I can keep the wall and path but make the row of cottages low (or lower) relief. I have sketched them at a scale 4 or 5 inches deep which is excessively generous, even if I model back yards. The row is inspired by two sets of tinplate workers cottages at Parkend which were called The Square. Its one of those oddly Lancashire-mill-town looking sites which made the Forest industries so incongrous; a slab of Manchester dumped down in a national park and is one of the things I'd like to try and capture, an illusive mix of rural and industrial.

 

So, yes, some potential space to shift things about in that area.

 

 

I've been looking at the plan and thinking it will be a massive pain to have to uncouple wagons on the south-most road that enters the wagon works and quite frankly I'm amazed I never considered placing the carriage shed against the backscene and having the works access lines (in reality stock storage) in front of it. I think it was about the look of the thing. Having the carriage shed centrally made it more prominent, the design that bit more idiosyncratic. A layout constructed with everything leading away from the viewer and higher as you go to end at the taller structures against the backscene seems too predictable to me. The carriage shed will be one of those open-sided affairs held up on iron or timber columns with a wooden walkway down the centre between the two roads. The walls will be half height hung from the roof and allowing air to move through to assist drying out of wet vehicles. The roof will either be pitched and wooden or rounded and corrugated tin. I was thinking of a bigger version of the carriage shed at Wantage. An open-sided structure is essential here so I can see what's inside it. That would let me see through to whatever occupied the back siding but doing away with the back siding also works, though I'd like to try and keep both carriage works roads as I think I need the storage.

[Martin S-C]

Which gets me this. A little more clearance for the through line now, though the RH end is still tight. I have a little room to play with on the FY side of this though. I want to keep both long sidings into the C&W Shops if I can.

 

To aid identification of and access to parked wagons inside the C&W Works I can make the north wall of the building open in some manner, perhaps folded back wooden doors or some such. It is summer after all. Something akin to this.

 

 

[BWsTrains]

Yes, you may be right Kevin. I haven't done a full size cross section there. The space north of the railway cottages to the left of the inn is a footpath and the "cottages" in my mind are dwellings plus back yards so we have a typical industrial set of house backs here. I wanted a grimy stone wall along the path with a drop down to the through line - a typical place where urchins could sit and watch trains and be told off for throwing stones down. I wouldn't want to but I think I could lose the footpath, and the dead end road at the N end of the inn and the carriage works can readily be trimmed back.

 

Alternatively I can keep the wall and path but make the row of cottages low (or lower) relief. I have sketched them at a scale 4 or 5 inches deep which is excessively generous, even if I model back yards. The row is inspired by two sets of tinplate workers cottages at Parkend which were called The Square. Its one of those oddly Lancashire-mill-town looking sites which made the Forest industries so incongrous; a slab of Manchester dumped down in a national park and is one of the things I'd like to try and capture, an illusive mix of rural and industrial.

 

So, yes, some potential space to shift things about in that area.

 

The Square Parkend.JPG

 

I've been looking at the plan and thinking it will be a massive pain to have to uncouple wagons on the south-most road that enters the wagon works and quite frankly I'm amazed I never considered placing the carriage shed against the backscene and having the works access lines (in reality stock storage) in front of it. I think it was about the look of the thing. Having the carriage shed centrally made it more prominent, the design that bit more idiosyncratic. A layout constructed with everything leading away from the viewer and higher as you go to end at the taller structures against the backscene seems too predictable to me. The carriage shed will be one of those open-sided affairs held up on iron or timber columns with a wooden walkway down the centre between the two roads. The walls will be half height hung from the roof and allowing air to move through to assist drying out of wet vehicles. The roof will either be pitched and wooden or rounded and corrugated tin. I was thinking of a bigger version of the carriage shed at Wantage. An open-sided structure is essential here so I can see what's inside it. That would let me see through to whatever occupied the back siding but doing away with the back siding also works, though I'd like to try and keep both carriage works roads as I think I need the storage.

 

Martin,

 

your whole design process is awesome, a joy to follow. It is taking on almost "Slartibartfast" dimensions. Good job your era is wrong for Fjords in the FoD or I suspect they might be next on your list

Might it be a step too far to suggest changing your Avatar?

 

 

Just survived 2 scorchers here in Melbourne then, with the change, received a liberal application of Mallee dust over my car, only place I know where you can go to bed having a grey car on the driveway and wake up to a brown one!

Still better than last year when I was left with a moonscape for a car body after a massive hailstorm. It was Sydney's turn this year, I hear it made the UK news.

 

Enough rambling, have a good year end, I'm hoping to see trains running on NM&GSR next year.

 

Regards,

 

Colin 

Edited December 28, 2018 by BWsTrains

[Martin S-C]

In Green Sollers where the canal dives into its tunnel, there's the greaseworks on one side and some so-far unidentified-but-probably-linked-to-the-railway industrial works on the other so this area should be a bit fjordian in feel, only dirtier, and in limestone. The brewery siding has similar potential.

 

Now I need a hardworking industrial loco named Magrathean.

[ian]

 Good job your era is wrong for Fjords in the FoD or I suspect they might be next on your list

 

I happen to like them, and I'm old fashioned enough to think that they give a lovely baroque feel to a continent.

[DonB]

To be able to see what is in your carriage shed, perhaps a tiny video camera in the roof space? -- Would give a general overview of in situ stock, and hopefully prevent attempts to park stock when already occupied.

There must be other spots in this layout where visibility is / will be limited, and there is potential to apply the cameras to enable a solo operator to see what is happening at remote points. 

[Martin S-C]

Good point Don.

I've got vague plans to open a website for the layout and have live streaming of running sessions so the idea of cameras has been floating about in my head though I hadn't thought of using them to assist in operations. The carriage shed falls under the Nether Madder signalbox but is several feet away and any actual coupling/uncoupling of those sidings will be done by the MVR Exchange Sidings operator, even so the NM signalman would need to know what's in there in order to decide what needed moving so, yes, probably some form of camera will help, as will one inside the C&W Shop and, in similar vein, inside the two engine sheds. Until you mentioned a camera my ideas for the two engine sheds was to have glass panes in the roofs which had "broken" so I could peer inside but a camera might be better.

I also want to make some videos of operations for YouTube and eventually an on-train camera will be needed. I know that you can get some superb tiny cameras now, small enough to put into the driving cab of an autocoach or DMU. One might even be able to have one fitted to show a view outside of a steam loco cab, a driver "head-out" view.

The layout is planned to be operated by a team and six people are suggested on the plan. I want operators to be signalmen principally and therefore each station will have a box and lever frame with the intention of digital interlocking with the signals. The idea being that you only ever drive a train towards your signal box, never away. This ensures people don't get sent trains when they are not ready to receive them. I then also wondered about bell codes but with so many signal boxes in so small a space the sound would be a cacophony unless I supplied headsets and used digital bellcodes which I know is now a thing.

 

The team of signalmen concept means if I'm alone I won't need to see very far to other points on the layout as I won't be able to control the points and signals at those stations anyway. My plan if I'm on my own is just to potter about at a couple of stations, mostly shunting, and for the first year probably designing a timetable or operating sequence. I may need to scoot between the two operating wells quite often which is why we had a long discussion about getting from one to t'other a few pages back. I need a method easy on people's backs and other joints and the dwarf wheeled stool idea is what I'm currently thinking of. You'd pull yourself along by gripping handrails fitted either side of the duckunder.

If all else fails (my health that is, in time) and I can no longer easily use the duck-under there is a back-up plan of fitting a second access door to the garage just to the left of Snarling station where the two blue lines are. This can be done and still falls behind the lockable access door to the garden so would be secure(ish)

If operators are okay moving between signalboxes then two operators is the minimum, one in each well, but the west end well has so much going on that I think three people will actually be necesary to run a fair service: 1) Nether Madder/Snarling/Coggles Causeway; 2) Puddlebrook/Dean Sollers Colliery/Witts End; 3) MVR Exchange Sidings/Catspaw/Green Soudley. It would be fairly intense but we could run a reduced service or only run the branch for relaxation, or just run the main line and close the branch (Sunday running).

Edited December 29, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

End of the year. Fin de siecle. Time to take stock.

 

Things are at a fairly low ebb here, both in terms of my mood and in actual progress. At January 1st 2018 there was nothing... except a very nice pension windfall. During the spring and summer I collected a lot of rolling stock and models (road vehicles, building kits, all that jazz) and drew up a plan for the kind of model I wanted. I moved house in April to a location that granted me the potential to finally have the railway I'd always dreamed of. Prior to that it was all small shelf layouts - BLTs and fiddle yards, some of execrable standard, some worth exhibiting (and which were, a few times, at small local club events which taught me a lot about weight, design, operating teams and such).

 

As autumn arrived the garage conversion happened and I saw progress at last. Hopes soared; excitement was high. The building was ready at the end of November but while painting the interior I happened upon a moisture/condensation problem that just would not go away. After a talk with the boss of the building company he agreed there were issues and as of now I'm waiting for his lads to return "in early January" and correct the problems. In the meantime Neil from the Little Layout Company has begun construction off-site of the baseboard frames. We're going for all open framework with boards where the level areas are (which as it happens, is just the stations and the colliery).

 

I now have a well established plan to work to and an unexpected Christmas present of a second small pension fund I had entirely forgotten about has matured and covered the entire cost of the garage conversion and about half the layout build cost, so that's nice.

At the moment I am still not in a modelling mood but I am sure as 2019 begins to happen and the garage moisture problem gets fixed (I am certain it will be) then we can look forward to some real progress on layout construction. I'm hoping trains will be running by the end of March. That's my target.

On that note I want to extend some very warm thank yous to everyone who has made me feel welcome here on RMWeb during my first few months and who has offered all kinds of useful criticism and advice. Its really very much appreciated. Onwards and upwards into 2019 and I wish all of you a magnificent New Year in all that you do.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Nearholmer]

May your damp dry-out, and may you continue to find forgotten pension pots hidden about the place.

 

As for being in a low mood at the turning of the year, only natural I tend to think, so here is a picture of something to look forward to, which I took in April this year.

 

Kevin

Edited December 31, 2018 by Nearholmer

[DonB]

Martin, A happy New Year to you. I'm sure we all envy your windfall! 

 

Your comment wishing for more width, reminded me of a member of the first cycling club I joined as a (very much) junior member in 1947 (!),

Said member had Trix Twin (remember them?) layout in his garden shed. Needing more layout space, he constructed a tunnel outside and attached to the shed.

He bragged that he had the biggest menagerie of Seven-legged spiders ever known! 

That layout fired my interest in model railways although I never had space for anything similar.

[Harlequin]

Hi Martin,

 

I hope you get your condensation problems sorted out. Those concrete panelled garages are always tricky. Don't let it put you off, though. Every worthwhile project has major problems along the way - just look at any episode of Grand Designs.

 

Changing subject, and sorry for putting the Cat among the Pigeons, but, "Green Soudley" never sounds right in my head. "Soudley Green" sounds more comfortable to me but is, of course, a real place. If the initials are important what about, "Great Soudley"?

Edited January 1, 2019 by Harlequin

[Annie]

All the very best for the New Year Martin.  You say you haven't been here on the forum for long, but in some ways it feels like you've always been here.  I'm sure 2019 is going to see great things happening with your amazing layout project and I for one will be looking forward to seeing your reports on progress as everything unfolds.