MK1 Sleeping Carriage (00)

[Jamie]

V.much obliged

[keefer]

this is certainly an interesting topic - there doesn't seem to be as much info/photos out there of the sleepers.

 

the roof vent is in the parkin book p.222, where it's noted as 5" high with a bottom gap of 1 3/8"

 

also regarding 60s liveries, i came across this photo ages ago and it's taken me an age again to remember where i saw it! ignore that steam thing in the foreground and look to the left background.

a blue/gey sleeper but with the older sounding 'Sleeping Car' legend in corporate typeface.

thinking about this, when did this become shortened to the much more modern sounding 'Sleeper'? - were they branded just 'Inter-City' at first, did they ever just carry 'Sleeper'?

 

[mark54]

a blue/gey sleeper but with the older sounding 'Sleeping Car' legend in corporate typeface.

thinking about this, when did this become shortened to the much more modern sounding 'Sleeper'? - were they branded just 'Inter-City' at first, did they ever just carry 'Sleeper'?

Early blue/grey re-paints got the older "Sleeping Car". The switch to "Inter-City Sleeper" came about 1969 possibly to co-incide with an advertising campaign and internal refurbishment of the 1st class cars.

[Il Grifone]

The raised moulding around the windows represents the frame present on later Mk Is. Being Hornby they managed to make a pig's ear of it and it's grossly over scale.

 

As stated, Dublo's coaches were streets ahead. They are still the only R-T-R with convincing flush windows (because they are!), but they were slated at the time for the use of tinplate sides and they are seriously dimensionally inaccurate in length and solebar width. The bogies aren't up to much either. A train however is very convincing.<br><br>According to Ian Allan abc BR Coaches (1958)  Mk I windows were:-<br><br>large windows 4' x 3' 4½" deep<br>toilet windows 2' 3" wide<br>quarter lights (non-corr) 1' 3½" x 2' 9½" deep<br>doors 2' wide with droplight 1' 6½" x 2' 4" deep<br><br>The drawings are rather small, but it appears that the door droplights are level with the bottom of the quarterlights on non-corridor stock and centred on the corridor stock windows. (Probably the top of the windows is a constant height and the other positions are set from this?)<br><br>body panels 16 gauge steel<br><br>To be pedantic, the Hornby model of M2008  http://www.Hornby.com/passenger-rolling-stock/r4202/product.html  is from a 1951 lot and shouldn't have the window framing. IIRC this was introduced in the very late fifties (1959?), possibly to stop

corrosion around the windows.<br><br>EDIT 2. the <br> has appeared where I put a new line. I trust sense can still be made of the text.<br><br>EDIT3. It now makes even less sense! <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif"><br>

[DavidBelcher]

 

The real fun stuff, like vans to and from Burton-on-Trent (no guesses what they were conveying), went on in the Class 3 uber-deviancy.

 

Pirelli HGV tyres and Robirch black puddings. Obviously.

 

David

[DavidBelcher]

The raised moulding around the windows represents the frame present on later Mk Is. Being Hornby they managed to make a pig's ear of it and it's grossly over scale.

 

As stated, Dublo's coaches were streets ahead. They are still the only R-T-R with convincing flush windows (because they are!), but they were slated at the time for the use of tinplate sides and they are seriously dimensionally inaccurate in length and solebar width. The bogies aren't up to much either. A train however is very convincing.

 

The HD full-brake (I bought one a few years back from Modellers Mecca for a bargain price) is bang-on for length, however; ditto the maroon non-corridors. Shame about the round buffer heads though. I was lucky enough to buy one of the older examples with the proper B1 bogies; later ones were re-designed with the tie-bar missing and don't look so good.

 

David

[Il Grifone]

The HD full-brake (I bought one a few years back from Modellers Mecca for a bargain price) is bang-on for length, however; ditto the maroon non-corridors. Shame about the round buffer heads though. I was lucky enough to buy one of the older examples with the proper B1 bogies; later ones were re-designed with the tie-bar missing and don't look so good.

 

David

 

Non quite "bang-on". The one I just measured is 222mm over headstocks ie 55' 6". The real thing is 56' 11". (Pedantic again!) The bogies are the earlier casting from the mid fifties (D12/D13/D14 etc.). The ones with the tie-bar were equalised with rocking sideframes, but this was dropped as causing derailments and they reverted to the old casting, which also runs more freely (or is that less stiffly?). The sideframes tended to seize - OK if horizontal - a disaster if not. The buffers are the standard Dublo brass item dating back to the 1938 LNER coaches (not right for these either!), but easy to replace. Pity the bogie wheelbase is only 8 feet, but they were designed for 'shortie' coaches. It's a shame that they made these coaches too short. If Tri-ang could get scale length coaches around 13½" radius curves, Dublo could have got them around 15". Maybe the switch to 2 rail should have co-incided with more generous curves anyway.

 

Sorry if we've strayed away from the OP. Dublo sleeping cars aren't that available as replacement sides even if you ignore the short length.

['CHARD]

Pirelli HGV tyres and Robirch black puddings. Obviously.

 

David

 

Doh! Marmite, please

[steverabone]

I made some Mk 1 sleepers using Comet coach sides on a Hornby base.I'd be interested to know the date of the Edinburgh-St Pancras sleeper formation. Do you also have details of the Glasgow St Enoch to St Pancras train as well?

The plan is to use these sleepers on my Hellifield layout.

 

My link

 

 

['CHARD]

The Waker consist is as 1967 W/T/T. It was unchanged in its last year, but I expect it may have been more lavish before the Peaks took over, loading to ten or more.

[37114]

Thanks for the replies so far, there certainly plenty to go at, and plenty of different routes to acheive it!

 

Another photo link, the picture of the blue grey coach is handy for the end ducting:

http://rollingstock.fotopic.net/c1573249.html

['CHARD]

Feels like a thread hijack to be honest, I'll be chronicling escapades with my target half-dozen over on one of my usual threads; as soon as there's more than just my abundant hot air to show for it

 

But while we're here, anyone care to discuss the provenance of this pair: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIANG-OO-2-X-SLEEPING-CARS_W0QQitemZ150433970277QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trains_Railway_Models?hash=item2306903865#ht_500wt_1182

[Il Grifone]

They're from the first Tri-ang batch and still fitted with the open ended axleboxes (not free running and for collectors only).

In addition the nylon Peco adapter couplings have been fitted. These can easily be removed and possibly resold on eBay if not required. Note these only replace the metal Tri-ang couplings and would need modification for the plastic type.

I can't remember off hand for certain if they had the window frames, but IIRC they did.

[37114]

They're from the first Tri-ang batch and still fitted with the open ended axleboxes (not free running and for collectors only).

In addition the nylon Peco adapter couplings have been fitted. These can easily be removed and possibly resold on eBay if not required. Note these only replace the metal Tri-ang couplings and would need modification for the plastic type.

I can't remember off hand for certain if they had the window frames, but IIRC they did.

 

 

Just going back to an earlier post though, the sides might be suitable for grafting with the rest of a Bachmann coach?

['CHARD]

Did I mention this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...3#ht_1997wt_939

 

I did ask if it was a cast limited edition, mainly because of the interesting idea about what P&P costs are these days.

 

I was told "they are very hard to find 40 year old items that are perfect in all respects. Try chasing Exley coaches if you want sensational metal ones."

So that's clear then. Immaculate and inaccurate in equal measure. Think I'll leave my wallet alone this time, thanks

[shortliner]

Strange that the Headline describes it as Blue & Grey, and further down we get

"MINT BOXED

Stunning, perfect condition, in a crisp factory fresh box. This item has been lightly run. Yellow Green sides with Grey roof, dating from 1969 to 1970 production."

 

My colouring of words in statement - it always amazes me that sellers don't seem to check what they are posting!

[BernardTPM]

That does show that the version with the frames round the window didn't appear until later. It's not only blue/grey but the later more accurate Rail Blue sort of shade used from about 1969/70, though still with the old Gill Sans lettering but in white; a mistake certainly made on some early BR restaurant car blue/grey repaints, though I don't know for sure if they made the same error with sleeping cars.

It is feasible to fit the Triang roof and sides to a Bachmann underframe/ends though some trimming of the lower slot-in tabs is required along a with a bit of thinning of the ends (including the end of the roof). The Tri-ang roof weld lines are better than the Bachmann ones! (OK, that's probably the only thing that's better...)

[Il Grifone]

Did I mention this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...3#ht_1997wt_939

 

I did ask if it was a cast limited edition, mainly because of the interesting idea about what P&P costs are these days.

 

I was told "they are very hard to find 40 year old items that are perfect in all respects. Try chasing Exley coaches if you want sensational metal ones."

 

So that's clear then. Immaculate and inaccurate in equal measure. Think I'll leave my wallet alone this time, thanks

 

He has some Exley coaches at a cool £225 for a rake of three! The clue is in his shop title "antique". One man's valuable antique is another's overpriced junk. Caveat emptor!

 

If you'd prefer a Dublo 2-6-4T for £87.50 or her box for £39.50 (OK a three rail box, but...) Granted mint condition ...

[andyman7]

He has some Exley coaches at a cool £225 for a rake of three! The clue is in his shop title "antique". One man's valuable antique is another's overpriced junk. Caveat emptor!

 

If you'd prefer a Dublo 2-6-4T for £87.50 or her box for £39.50 (OK a three rail box but...) Granted mint condition ...

That is an insane price, even for *nearly* mint boxed (if it's been run it isn't mint...). Still, there are loads of cheap unboxed well used examples knocking around that are much better bets for conversion

[coachmann]

I attended an exhibition of old & new at Manchester Central circa 1962. A brand new Sleeping Car in lined maroon livery looked simply magnificent.

 

The Bachmann Mk.I coaches come apart in such as way that the sides unclip from the roof. It should therefore be relatively easy to fit new etched brass sides. In fact there could be a market for etched sides with a fold over top containing the same slots as Bachmanns so they would clip onto the roof.

 

Larry G.

[talyllyn1]

Did I mention this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...3#ht_1997wt_939

 

I did ask if it was a cast limited edition, mainly because of the interesting idea about what P&P costs are these days.

 

I was told "they are very hard to find 40 year old items that are perfect in all respects. Try chasing Exley coaches if you want sensational metal ones."

 

I bought off this guy once - never again!

I asked if, as I was local, could I collect? I had an abrupt "no" which tells you all you need to know about his postal charges. Having received the "mint and immaculate - tested" loco I found the driving wheels were wobbly (usual Bachmann split-chassis problem). His email response was just plain rude - similar to the Exley comment. Goes to show that Ebay feedback doesn't tell you everything!

[60B]

I attended an exhibition of old & new at Manchester Central circa 1962. A brand new Sleeping Car in lined maroon livery looked simply magnificent.

 

The Bachmann Mk.I coaches come apart in such as way that the sides unclip from the roof. It should therefore be relatively easy to fit new etched brass sides. In fact there could be a market for etched sides with a fold over top containing the same slots as Bachmanns so they would clip onto the roof.

 

Larry G.

 

Is that a hint there, Larry? B)

[37114]

Southern pride do do one in their Etch Master range - I've three in the to do list and another five to get off them. Maroon is an easier finish than blue grey

 

Hi David,

 

Any chance you can post a pic of the etches or a finished model, I am tempted to go down this route having built some southern pride kits before? Mine will have to be Blue Grey as Maroon was gone by 1977 and I had no problem doing blue grey on my Southern Pride Car Carrier.

 

Thanks

[coachmann]

Is that a hint there, Larry?

When it comes to railway coaches I look at a many things to see if there is a potential market, but decided to stick with LMS . On a personal level, I want just one Mk.I corridor composite and would buy sides from Bob-65b.

 

Larry

[DavidBelcher]

Just chipping in with an on-topic question of my own; did the ER have any of the composite Mk.1 sleepers? Michael Foster's Hornby Dublo book seems to imply that the composites were a WR speciality (or rather than the Western had no single-class Mk.1 sleeping cars), hence the composite Dublo model having a W24xx number.

 

David