Birmingham New Street 1930s-1960s (pre electrification)

[Clearwater]

Hi

 

Were there any gauging restrictions into the station that prevented the Coronations operating into the station prior to electrification? I understand that the London services were mostly operated by Jubilees and Scots and presume the Coronations were mostly used for the longer distance services by the LMS as opposed to the Birmingham route but was wondering if there was any physical reason that the Coronations couldn't use New Street.

 

Thanks in advance

 

David

[TheSignalEngineer]

They did actually appear on occasions. The lack of them was more down to there being no need for a big loco on the Birmingham trains. After all, before the Jubilees some were hauled by a Compound. Even when

Pacifics did start to appear regularly the evening train via Northampton could produce anything from a Class 24 to a Coronation.

[Clearwater]

Thanks. I’ve not consciously seen photos of the class at New Street prior to the early 60s. However googling Duchess/Coronation/ Birmingham tends to throw up thousands of results with very recent pictures and a lot of the imprisoned class member at Thinktank.

 

The train weight point is interesting and a contrast to the GW route. They tended to use Kings on their London to Birmingham/ Wolverhampton trains and (in)famously borrowed ex-LMS Pacifics in the 50s when there was the cracking problem in the Kings.

 

David

[TheSignalEngineer]

Thanks. I’ve not consciously seen photos of the class at New Street prior to the early 60s. However googling Duchess/Coronation/ Birmingham tends to throw up thousands of results with very recent pictures and a lot of the imprisoned class member at Thinktank.

 

The train weight point is interesting and a contrast to the GW route. They tended to use Kings on their London to Birmingham/ Wolverhampton trains and (in)famously borrowed ex-LMS Pacifics in the 50s when there was the cracking problem in the Kings.

 

David

Except for the start up Camden Bank and the bit between Proof House and New Street the L&B line didn't have anything steeper than 1 in 330. 

For Camden they got a push start from the loco that had brought the stock into Euston. At New Street it was down hill from the platform through the tunnel then a steep climb for about 300 yards from Park St to New Canal St.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The train weight point is interesting and a contrast to the GW route. They tended to use Kings on their London to Birmingham/ Wolverhampton trains and (in)famously borrowed ex-LMS Pacifics in the 50s when there was the cracking problem in the Kings.

 

David

The King was probably overkill on the GW route for a lot of services.

 

Around 1960 the timing difference between Banbury and Snow Hill was only about 2 minutes more for a Castle with the same load.

 

In terms of load, IIRC a King was allowed 2 coaches more than a Castle on the same timings over that stretch.

Edited June 28, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[Rugd1022]

Except for the start up Camden Bank and the bit between Proof House and New Street the L&B line didn't have anything steeper than 1 in 330. 

For Camden they got a push start from the loco that had brought the stock into Euston. At New Street it was down hill from the platform through the tunnel then a steep climb for about 300 yards from Park St to New Canal St.

 

Don't forget the 1 in 200 climb out of Northampton Castle on the way up to Roade, Coronations regularly went this way on diverted expresses and parcels trains. There's a particularly good colour photo of a filthy example waiting for the RA close to Northampton No1 'box before climbing the bank in one the Richard Coleman books on the county.

[The Lurker]

Don't forget the 1 in 200 climb out of Northampton Castle on the way up to Roade, Coronations regularly went this way on diverted expresses and parcels trains. There's a particularly good colour photo of a filthy example waiting for the RA close to Northampton No1 'box before climbing the bank in one the Richard Coleman books on the county.

which is interesting because I have seen quite a few photos of them being diverted via Blisworth and coming into Castle via the triangle down at Bridge St. Via Roade always seemed more logical to me but I guess I am not thinking about the gradient.