Loughborough Junction - graffiti deaths

[beast66606]

I know this has been pointed out before but I think indignation at the act of trespass needs to be tempered by the knowledge that many of the photos of railways in earlier days which we benefit from and enjoy were taken by individuals trespassing on the railway. We see far less criticism of such stuff (and indeed sometimes shaky justification of it) probably because it was done by our fellow enthusiasts. Here's a particularly pertinent example, you'll need to read to the finish to fully appreciate this.

 

 

Like myself, a lot of "old" photographers had permission from local staff, and lineside permits were also issued. The railway was a slower, noisier affair, not like the quick and quiet trains of today. So let's not equate the two things please.

 

Edit - repeats what several have said to a large degree

[TheSignalEngineer]

Great idea, but I'd suggest only closing lines when needed by the artists. To request this, they'll need to register giving their name and current address......

And pay for the relevant staff required to run the posession, cash in advance only.

[Reorte]

3 less criminal idiots in the world, I wont shed any tears for them. My sympathy goes to the staff and emergency services who have had to deal with the mess.

 

I don't even have that much sympathy for the family and friends as they obviously knew what the three were doing and allowed it to continue. "Artists", don't make me laugh!

I agree with the general sentiment but family and friends might've been begging them to stop before something like this happened for all we know.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I know this has been pointed out before but I think indignation at the act of trespass needs to be tempered by the knowledge that many of the photos of railways in earlier days which we benefit from and enjoy were taken by individuals trespassing on the railway. We see far less criticism of such stuff (and indeed sometimes shaky justification of it) probably because it was done by our fellow enthusiasts. Here's a particularly pertinent example, you'll need to read to the finish to fully appreciate this.

 

Took him several attempts to finally get his Darwin Award.

[Southernman46]

No sympathy whatsoever ................. I spent years combating the effects of these f*ckers and attempting to prevent them gaining access and trespassing in a highly dangerous environment and leading other impressionable idiots into doing the same

 

 ....................... If you play with fire then eventually you will get burnt and suffer the consequences .................. Tough !!

['CHARD]

Took him several attempts to finally get his Darwin Award.

 

The man was a daredevil legend -  the Keith Moon of rail enthusiasts.  No concept of danger in pursuit of the Nth degree of enjoyment of his hobby.

[PenrithBeacon]

But there are plenty of facts the BBC chose not to report so why report this one? The simple fact is that a group of trespassers were hit by a passing train and killed or died of injuries - they had no right at all to be where they were but they were sufficiently stupid to wander about on a live railway line and moreover one that has 3rd rail electrification.

 

In reality it really is pure Darwin Award stuff and I have not one jot of compassion in my soul for them but an awful lot for a Driver who might be worrying that he was the inadvertent cause of their death simply because he was doing his (or her) job. Equally, having been there, I have plenty of compassion for the poor s*ds who had to go and clear up the mess and investigate what had happened; human beings who have hit by a train rarely present a pretty sight. So both of those groups have my deepest sympathy.

 

Obviously the bereaved will be upset but that is simply that and nothing else - they have been bereaved like countless thousands of other people every year. As for the idiots who set out on their own courses of vandalism to 'commemorate' their fellow criminals I have nothing but contempt, it's about time they grew up and got a life instead of ruining other people's lives creating useless expense and time wasting for the law abiding. Hopefully this incident might discourage these idiots from going onto railway lines and if it does that will be a good thing but alas some of them are sufficiently stupid to seek similar martyrdom among their peers or have enough bravado to say it will never happen to them, none of them will get my sympathy.

Your compassion seems to be very conditional.

I have expressed my feelings for the people who had to attend the aftermath of this horrific event, but I do feel that the family and friends of the deceased deserve compassion too.

As for Jeramy Vine, he’s just a tele presenter with all the reservations that go with that status.

People should not trespass on the railway, it isn’t a safe environment, but there are those whose obsession carries them on to do dafter and dafter things. Hopefully this incident will calm the obsessive drive amongst other graffitists, but I can’t say that it will. It might.

[Flying Pig]

Your compassion seems to be very conditional.

 

Indeed. It is possible to feel anger towards these people and to condemn their actions without completely dehumanising them. RMweb is the only site I know where lack of compassion is worn as a badge of honour by otherwise respectable posters* and I find it disturbing. Some of you need to take a hard look at yourselves.

 

* it's easy to find similar attitudes on the likes of 4chan, but I expect better from RMwebbers.

[Oldddudders]

Unfortunately martyrdom often begets copycatting, as some sort of support for the deceased. And I believe alternative societies, eschewing mainstream values, have never been more flourishing.

 

As for Jeremy Vine, Deb’s experiences of being part of one of his radio programmes indicated that the researchers were slapdash and incompetent. In her case, protests were registered and the programme was rerun. When the Foreign Office and MEPs got involved, he didn’t have much choice.......

[John Tomlinson]

Indeed. It is possible to feel anger towards these people and to condemn their actions without completely dehumanising them. RMweb is the only site I know where lack of compassion is worn as a badge of honour by otherwise respectable posters* and I find it disturbing. Some of you need to take a hard look at yourselves.

 

* it's easy to find similar attitudes on the likes of 4chan, but I expect better from RMwebbers.

 

Sorry, if someone tried to break into my house by climbing a drainpipe and fell off and died, I might feel some degree of sadness at the incident, but my overwhelming emotion would be one of relief, that they hadn't been successful and caused harm to me, my family or my property.

 

That isn't a badge of pride at all, simply how I react to pre-meditated criminality, the fault would lie in my opinion solely with the perpetrator.

 

John.

Edited June 20, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[Flying Pig]

Sorry, if someone tried to break into my house by climbing a drainpipe and fell off and died, I might feel some degree of sadness at the incident, but my overwhelming emotion would be one of relief, that they hadn't been successful and caused harm to me, my family or my property.

 

That isn't a badge of pride at all, simply how I react to pre-meditated criminality, the fault would lie in my opinion solely with the perpetrator.

 

John.

Your feelings are your private feelings. Until you regularly post your lack of sympathy with dead burglars, I'm not really talking to you.

[John Tomlinson]

Your feelings are your private feelings. Until you regularly post your lack of sympathy with dead burglars, I'm not really talking to you.

 

"...I'm not really talking to you", is fine by me. I actually don't understand what the rest of your post means,  although it comes over to me as indignant gobbledygook.

 

John.

[jjb1970]

I can only speak for myself and will not pretend that my own feelings are representative of anybody else.

 

As I've already said, any needless loss of life is a tragedy. I have sympathy for those who have lost loved ones and actually do feel sympathy for those who died. As I say, regardless of what I think of vandals I wouldn't wish death on them.

 

BUT, my sympathy is tempered by the fact that if these people hadn't been trespassing and indulging in vandalism then they wouldn't have died. I've seen too many people die prematurely through no fault of their own that I can't honestly feel the same sense of regret for those who die as a result of their own deliberate choices. And yes, I feel the same about rail enthusiasts who trespass, reckless drivers, substance abusers and plenty of others who die ahead of their time as a result of their own life choices.

[Neil]

Not always. There was a time when British Railways issued lineside passes to photographers, and those in possession of such permits would be expected to check in and out with the signalman responsible for that section of line.

 

I'm sure that this was sometimes so but the vast majority of accounts I've read of photography, particularly towards the end of steam, seem to suggest that such measures were generally ignored. Then of course there's the separate sub-genre of bunking into sheds, the unofficial working of the signal box or firing/driving the loco.

[griffgriff]

Isn't the Tate, (or where ever unmade beds & formaldehyde animals are), full of "art" ?

Elsewhere grown men are known to pass the time ‘playing’ with miniature trains.... we’re in a glass house on this one :/

[Boris]

If they hadn't been where they shouldn't be, doing something they shouldn't have been doing they would still be here.  End of.  FFS there are even photos of them vandalising trains all over facebook.  They are also all old enough to know better, these aren't bored kids/teenagers, these are grown men who should know better.

 

In cases like this sympathy lies in my dictionary somewhere between sh1t and syphilis.

[Flying Pig]

If they hadn't been where they shouldn't be, doing something they shouldn't have been doing they would still be here.  End of.  FFS there are even photos of them vandalising trains all over facebook.  They are also all old enough to know better, these aren't bored kids/teenagers, these are grown men who should know better.

They brought their deaths on themselves by their stupid and criminal actions. They also caused inconvenience and distress to many people as a result of their stupid and criminal actions.

 

End of?

 

In cases like this sympathy lies in my dictionary somewhere between sh1t and syphilis.

No. They remain human beings. Dead ones. Show some respect. If their actions in life mean that you do not have the generosity of spirit to mourn them in death, at least have the self-understanding to realise that is a failing on your part and not something to be posted on a public forum as some kind of warped virtue signal.

 

And that's me out.

[John Tomlinson]

I'm fairly staggered at the breathtaking and self righteous arrogance of the last post.

 

That's me out as well.

 

John.

[mikejames]

hello

I would like to suggest that people think carefully before posting on this thread.

It is becoming personal and not adding to the general understanding

of the situation.

In all cases of death there is a case for expressing sympathy for the relatives etc

of the bereaved - but the personal criticism is pointless and leads to

future bad feelings on the site.

at the very least please refrain from criticising peoples for their views

and try to contribute positively to the general knowledge of the community.

 

mike james

 

 

 

[Zomboid]

I have seen some examples of "Street art" which are attractive and genuinely enhance the ambience of an area. None of it to date has been people's adopted names applied to the operational railway infrastructure or rolling stock (though the Leake Street tunnel is under Waterloo station)...

 

These people chose to engage in a highly dangerous and illegal activity, and their luck ran out. A senseless waste of life, and some needless trauma for those they left behind and those who had to clean up the aftermath.

[Boris]

No. They remain human beings. Dead ones. Show some respect. If their actions in life mean that you do not have the generosity of spirit to mourn them in death, at least have the self-understanding to realise that is a failing on your part and not something to be posted on a public forum as some kind of warped virtue signal.

 

And that's me out.

No, having been one of the people who has had to go out and pick up the bits of these people up I have zero respect at all.  Have you ever seen what a train does to a human body?  Perhaps seen your mates head reduced to an eighth of an inch deep patch of mush?  These deaths were empty and pointless and the people I have sympathy for are the ones who had to go out and scrape these 3 individuals up into plastic bags.

 

Unfortunately once you've seen the aftermath of a few incidents like this you stop caring about the victims, you have to or you go nuts - why do you think these days I work in a dead end job on a preserved railway rather than on the mainline?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Boris

[Chris M]

Maybe contenders for the Darwin awards.

[Dunsignalling]

I'm sure that this was sometimes so but the vast majority of accounts I've read of photography, particularly towards the end of steam, seem to suggest that such measures were generally ignored. Then of course there's the separate sub-genre of bunking into sheds, the unofficial working of the signal box or firing/driving the loco.

However, you are neglecting one aspect.

 

All this was taking place prior to the abolition of common sense, when people seem to have had a greater grasp of risk, e.g. being able to work out that, if one got in the way of several hundred tons of train, you would come off worst in a very big way.

 

In any event unofficial signalling/firing/driving took place under the supervision of experienced railwaymen whose livelihoods would have been on the line had they allowed anything to go wrong. I did my youthful bunking on Sundays when the sheds were full. Lots of engines to cop, very little moving about and fewer staff around to chuck us out. More common sense?

 

Unfortunately, far too many nowadays seem to retain delusions of immortality beyond an appropriate age. Something to do with video games in which death just means going back to the beginning, and/or "dangerous" sports that only look dangerous, perhaps?

 

As to the current topic under discussion, applying graffiti to a working railway is a properly dangerous sport and the deaths of  these three young men will hopefully do something to dissuade others from similar folly. Railway fencing is there for very good reasons, one of which, to put it bluntly, is to prevent the painters becoming the paint.

 

Active rail staff are thoroughly trained and regularly refreshed on keeping themselves out of harms way when they have to go on the track, not doing so unless they have to, and only venturing into places like Loughborough Junction under the protection of a line blockage.

 

John

Edited June 21, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[railsquid]

Great idea, but I'd suggest only closing lines when needed by the artists. To request this, they'll need to register giving their name and current address......

 

Personally I believe in the spirit of artistic reciprocity - talented (or otherwise) young feral vandals should be free to express their artistic skills (or lack thereof) wherever, provided the same freedom is extended to the general public to do the same on their property (or more likely that of their parents).

[Mike Storey]

No, having been one of the people who has had to go out and pick up the bits of these people up I have zero respect at all.  Have you ever seen what a train does to a human body?  Perhaps seen your mates head reduced to an eighth of an inch deep patch of mush?  These deaths were empty and pointless and the people I have sympathy for are the ones who had to go out and scrape these 3 individuals up into plastic bags.

 

Unfortunately once you've seen the aftermath of a few incidents like this you stop caring about the victims, you have to or you go nuts - why do you think these days I work in a dead end job on a preserved railway rather than on the mainline?

 

Having done just what you have done, in the past, and about 15 times altogether, I empathise. After the first few, gut-wrenching, sick-making, horrible, unforgettable times, one becomes remarkably callous, probably as a self-protection mechanism, and such deaths and the huge amount of effort and disruption needed afterwards just becomes an annoying nuisance, which one got through as quickly as possible. I just hope that for the people who did have to clear this up, it wasn't their first. The people I feel most sorry for are the officers who have to go and tell the families.

 

But I am not sure how so many other people commenting on here, who do not appear to have dealt with the aftermath of these or similar incidents, have become so callous too? 

 

Just to aid all those who have, yet again, seen this as an indescribably opportunist chance to bash the Guardian (and of course the Beeb), here is a subsequent report by a paper renown for the avoidance of any PC tendencies whatsoever:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5859967/Graffiti-community-pays-tribute-three-victims-hit-killed-train-south-London.html

 

I have counted the number of times the word "criminals" has been used, and it totals - none. In fact, it berates poor, mad, uber-reactionary, ex-Tory Mr Cooke for describing them as "scum". Oh dear. I guess you will simply have to have a go at them now. But you won't, will you?