steve howe Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I am looking to get some rtr coaches with a view to upgrading them to suppement the coaching stock on our P4 club layout 'Watermouth' I don't know a lot about proprietary RTR stuff and looking on Ebay there seems to be a lot available which would lend itself to upgrading and repainting, new bogies, door handles, flush glazing etc. Can anyone please advise on the attached pics as to their origin and period? I am looking for 1920s - late 1930s stock, and I can't identify these coaches. I thought they might be Centenary stock, but I thought Centenarys had recessed doors at the ends? or are these the Cornish Riviera coaches? Thanks Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) They are supposed to be Collett 57ft bow ended stock. They are been replaced in the Hornby range by new tooling. I’m unsure as to the accuracy of the old ones, especially under frame and bogies as they are a good 15 years beyond my interest period. I suggest close examination of Russell’s GW Coaches vol 2 and there may be advice on the GWR modelling website. DrDuncan Edited June 10, 2018 by drduncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) These are Hornby's older version 57ft Colletts. There represent H57 restaurant car, brake third and composite. The composite is inaccurate as it shares an interior with the early Hornby LMS stanier coach. They can be upgraded and good work has been done with new ends, extra detailing to the underframe and replacement roof vents. Early versions have the wrong bogies so be careful. Can be cut and shut to provide other coach diagrams not provided for by Hornby. There is disagreement between RMwebbers as to whether replacement glazing is appropriate. These coaches weren't flush glazed, but then again the glazing wasn't set back by a scale three inches either. Check RMweb there are other threads dealing with the upgrading of these coaches. Edited June 10, 2018 by rovex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 Hmm, so might be better searching for deals in the new Colletts range? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Might be worth looking through this topic: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116895-new-colletts-from-old Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Hmm, so might be better searching for deals in the new Colletts range? You could look for later versions of these coaches (and still in the current Railroad range) which have a reasonable version of the correct 7' wb bogies - probably cheaper than buying new bogies for these very early versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Nile Posted June 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 10, 2018 Hmm, so might be better searching for deals in the new Colletts range? Steve Bargains can be found, although maybe not in the livery you want. http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/57621/R4685-8-Hornby-Collett-GWR-Bow-Ended-Bargain-Coach-Pack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I am looking to get some rtr coaches with a view to upgrading them to suppement the coaching stock on our P4 club layout 'Watermouth' I don't know a lot about proprietary RTR stuff and looking on Ebay there seems to be a lot available which would lend itself to upgrading and repainting, new bogies, door handles, flush glazing etc. Can anyone please advise on the attached pics as to their origin and period? I am looking for 1920s - late 1930s stock, and I can't identify these coaches. I thought they might be Centenary stock, but I thought Centenarys had recessed doors at the ends? or are these the Cornish Riviera coaches? Thanks Steve s-l16004 coaches.jpg Hornby coaches 2.jpg Steve, What way have you decided to go with these? You can still achieve good results with effort with these. Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I am looking to get some rtr coaches with a view to upgrading them to suppement the coaching stock on our P4 club layout 'Watermouth' I don't know a lot about proprietary RTR stuff and looking on Ebay there seems to be a lot available which would lend itself to upgrading and repainting, new bogies, door handles, flush glazing etc. Can anyone please advise on the attached pics as to their origin and period? I am looking for 1920s - late 1930s stock, and I can't identify these coaches. I thought they might be Centenary stock, but I thought Centenarys had recessed doors at the ends? or are these the Cornish Riviera coaches? Thanks Steve s-l16004 coaches.jpg Hornby coaches 2.jpg I managed to overlook this thread earlier - my apologies. My own view is that it is not worth investing time and effort on the GW coaches in the Railroad range, with the possible exception of the restaurant car. The newer tooling is so good that the results are worth improving, if that makes sense. I'll try and clarify the situation re Riviera stock. The Riviera traditionaally had first dibs on new stock. The trains built in 1929 closely resembled the ordinary stock of the period but were significantly wider to take full advantage of the generous GWR loading gauge. The same applied to the 1935 Centenary stock, which did have recessed end doors and significant restrictions on route availability due to their 9 ft 7 in width. Towards the end of their lives they would turn up singly on rural branches. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I managed to overlook this thread earlier - my apologies. My own view is that it is not worth investing time and effort on the GW coaches in the Railroad range, with the possible exception of the restaurant car. The newer tooling is so good that the results are worth improving, if that makes sense. I'll try and clarify the situation re Riviera stock. The Riviera traditionaally had first dibs on new stock. The trains built in 1929 closely resembled the ordinary stock of the period but were significantly wider to take full advantage of the generous GWR loading gauge. The same applied to the 1935 Centenary stock, which did have recessed end doors and significant restrictions on route availability due to their 9 ft 7 in width. Towards the end of their lives they would turn up singly on rural branches. Chris Chris , You have me bamboozeled. Do you mean that the early stock is no longer worth the effort because the newer stock is much better quality and worth the effort to upgrade? khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Chris , You have me bamboozeled. Do you mean that the early stock is no longer worth the effort because the newer stock is much better quality and worth the effort to upgrade? khris That is my opinion. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Thanks Chris....that clarifies things Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Thanks for the info on Centenary coaches Chris, we opted to take advantage of a bulk-buy deal from Kernow and get some new Hornby Collett bow enders as (you correctly say) they are so good and need relatively little work, in fact my fellow P4'ers tell me that the wheels can be swapped without the need for modifying the bogies (which are spot-on). I shall add more undergear and proper corridor connections and probably better buffers in due course, but the paintwork I'm leaving well alone! steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Steve Beware of buffers! It has long been a beef of mine that the after-market GW coach buffers available have round shanks instead of rectangular ones. At least the Hornby ones have rectangular shanks and stocks and would probably scrub up quite well after a few strokes with a file. You can tell I haven't tried this yet! I shall be at Scaleforum on both days and I expect our paths will cross. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 They are pretty poor as RTR coaches go. The colour is pretty horrible and it is very difficult to repaint them without losing the detail. The roof ribs look overscale and my particular beef the glazing bars on the Buffet car look horribly oversize and very difficult to slim down. I have a set in my scrap box and even for a layout running 55 year old Hornby Dublo stock I don't consider them good enough to run. My set is R/H brake 3rd. Buffet and L/H Brake 3rd to run with City of Truro. Changing the brake to the opposite hand was challenging but fun but the Buffet windows defeated me. GWR coaches generally ran in small groups or individually rather than in fixed rakes. Around half the stock seemed to be brake composites and there were very few firsts. A set of anything was a rarity except for fixed non corridor branch and suburban rakes. Coaches were routinely added and removed from trains during their runs. Post WW2 much changed and carriage swapping was phased out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 (edited) GWR coaches generally ran in small groups or individually rather than in fixed rakes. Around half the stock seemed to be brake composites and there were very few firsts. A set of anything was a rarity except for fixed non corridor branch and suburban rakes. Coaches were routinely added and removed from trains during their runs. Post WW2 much changed and carriage swapping was phased out. This is a very good point and its what makes up the charm of the inter-War years trains, particularly the secondary cross-country services. Watermouth is a medium sized branch terminus somewhere on the Devon/ Dorset coast somewhere west of Bridport (think Kingswear, Kingsbridge and a bit of Weymouth) but is also an embarkation point for passengers to Europe, so it could see at least one train a day with some fairly prestigious coaches in its make-up complete with destination boards. Conceivably a coach or two from the 'Riviera' could be worked through on an otherwise normal branch working, although I think a 'Boat Train' might be pushing it a bit far! Is the current RTR Centenary/Riviera stock worth looking at with a view to an upgrade? Steve Edited September 15, 2018 by steve howe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Steve Look at Fatadder's blog of rolling stock for Brent. Comet do good etched sides which can go on the Airfix shells once the latter have been rubbed down. I have a brake composite to do [plus many, many other things!] Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Chris , You have me bamboozeled. Do you mean that the early stock is no longer worth the effort because the newer stock is much better quality and worth the effort to upgrade? khris But it’s fun to hack the living daylights out of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 But it’s fun to hack the living daylights out of them. Isn't it just! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) The later versions of what are now the 'Railroad' GWR coaches have much better paint finishes than the early ones and quite good 7ft w.b. bogies. Not only more accurate, but they bring down the height of the coach compared to the early versions on BR1s. There is no Restaurant car in the new tooling series yet but perhaps the sides from the later painted versions combined with the rest of the shell (roof, ends, underframes) from the new series would produce a reasonable result, at least for a pre-war coach. Edited October 27, 2022 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 The later versions of what are now the 'Railroad' GWR coaches have much better paint finishes than the early ones and quite good 7ft w.b. bogies. Not only more accurate, but they bring down the height of the coach compared to the early versions on BR1s. There is no Restaurant car in the new tooling series yet but perhaps the sides from the later painted versions combined with the rest of the shell (roof, ends, underframes) from the new series would roduce a reasonable result, at least for a pre-war coach. Probably simpler to put comet sides on a new version donor. I think Worsley mY do the older version windows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Probably simpler to put comet sides on a new version donor. I think Worsley mY do the older version windows Certainly if you want the later sliding vent windows, but I was thinking in terms of picking one with matching livery, so pre-painted. Not everyone is good at painting and the later versions are quite nicely finished (agreed though that the early ones are awful). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve howe Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 So whats the verdict on secondhand Centenary/Riviera stock? Hornby or Airfix/Dapol? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 So whats the verdict on secondhand Centenary/Riviera stock? Hornby or Airfix/Dapol? Steve Hornby have done pretty much nothing to “improve” from the original Airfix tooling.The coaches are pretty ‘spartan’ No grab handles by the doors , moulded lump instead of wire for roof grab rails and very basic under frame details. You can pick them up cheap on ethief if you keep yer eyes peeled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Be a devil Steve and bash 'em (the old Colletts) into something more exciting 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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