Popular Post Black Marlin Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) Hello all. The time has come (the walrus said) to talk of many things: of track and trains and scenery; of timetables and Beeching... Well, not quite, but we may as well get started. I'm Gavin, and I have finally reached a stage where I can begin my layout of a lifetime. I have a 40' x 20' space to put it in, I have an awful lot of stock ready and waiting (the majority of which appeared on a previous layout that appeared desultorily on RMWeb, called 'Starlingford'), and I have a clear(ish) idea of the trackplan. It will be a 4-track mainline with a pair of branchlines - one rising 4" or so; the other dropping fully 8" to a quayside (that will itself be a fully independent 'dogbone' loop), which means that the mean track level will be 11" above sea level (so as to give sufficient clearance for ships 'passing' under bridges). Baseboard construction will be open-frame in 9mm ply with the main ribs spaced 15" apart. Track will be Peco bullhead throughout, wired for DC but using busses (which ought to make conversion to DCC at a later point, should I ever choose to go down that route, far more straightforward). Points, slips etc will use electrofrogs (or, rather, live unifrogs). As I've never done any of this before, expect to see pleas for advice/help! I intend to box a bit clever with eras. Although it will most often appear in an LNER 1930s/40s guise, I intend to make it possible to post-date it to BR days through some cunning switching of stock and vehicles. The pace of building will be slow. I have time and space but not much by way of disposable income; a slow-and-steady accumulation of bits 'n' pieces leading to flurries of progress is likely to be the way in which this works. My passion is the scenic side of things; my dread is the electrickery. I expect, by the time I'm done with the (hundreds? thousands?) of dropper wires the layout will require, to be able to feign a degree of competence, but I'm starting from square 1! In the meantime, and in order to get this thread moving in the way it ought, here are some pics of initial forays into developing the permanent way. The layout requires at least 8 bridges of various types, ranging from small stream-crossers to an almighty 4-track monstrosity to take the mainlines through 90 degrees on a 4'-radius curve (the inspiration for the biggun, incidentally, is Newcastle's King Edward VII bridge, albeit radically bent). Fortunately I really like building bridges and have made a good start. I now have 3 bridges in various stages of completion. The first is a twin-track trestle bridge for the lower branchline. It's (nominally) based on the one at Portmadoc and, while it requires 9 stone piers to complete it, enough exists to give you a reasonable idea of what the end result will be: The second is the viaduct that will carry the Up Slow line across the same body of water as the lower trestle bridge. This time my inspiration was the Oykel Viaduct at Invershin. As you can see, there is still some painting and construction work to be done (handrails are missing on one side; I have yet to work out the drop of the land beneath the stone arches, with the implications that has for the necessity for piers) but, again, the basic structure is there: Finally, I have a T-section girder viaduct for the upper branchline to cross the feeder river that creates the water feature the aforementioned bridges will cross. This is the only one (so far) to have been available as a complete kit in its own right, being made of laser-cut 3mm MDF. It's also slightly different in that the track on it is standard Peco Code 75; I wanted the closer sleeper spacing for the bridge span. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of it to hand, but I'll get one put up at some point. So that's the current state of play: a long-term build of a layout of a lifetime, featuring dramatic scenery and scale-length trains. I hope you enjoy the journey with me. Regards, Gavin Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboyboris Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Very ambitious plans. I look forward to seeing how this develops. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 And so, the first of the queries. The fast lines and the slow lines ought to have slightly different colours of ballast. At the moment my inclinations are towards Woodland Scenics's medium-grade materials - pale grey for the fast lines and medium grey for the slow lines. But can anyone suggest a better alternative? The key criteria are: it'll look good (i.e. appropriate for an ER layout); it's easily obtainable (because I have hundreds of feet of this stuff to lay); and, not-unrelatedly, it doesn't require extensive modification post-purchase. The thought of painting 80' of tiny stone chippings does not appeal...!Your thoughts?GB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium stivesnick Posted May 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2018 And so, the first of the queries. The fast lines and the slow lines ought to have slightly different colours of ballast. At the moment my inclinations are towards Woodland Scenics's medium-grade materials - pale grey for the fast lines and medium grey for the slow lines. But can anyone suggest a better alternative? The key criteria are: it'll look good (i.e. appropriate for an ER layout); it's easily obtainable (because I have hundreds of feet of this stuff to lay); and, not-unrelatedly, it doesn't require extensive modification post-purchase. The thought of painting 80' of tiny stone chippings does not appeal...! Your thoughts? GB My thought would be that the railway company would get the ballast for all lines in the area from the same source so they could be very similar. It is likely that the main line track would be re-newed more often should might be lighter shade. The only problem with Woodland Scenics ballast is that it is a consistent colour, so when I use it I generally mix a couple of colours together. To go back to your original question, perhaps you could use a 4:2 mix of light/dark grey on the main line and a 2:4 mix on the other routes. Worth trying it out on a few lengths of track to see how it looks. On other layout threads, there are plenty of examples of other people trying various combinations of colours for effect. Type "ballast trial" or similar into the search function to see what appears. Hope this helps. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Glacial progress continues. The first of (at least) 15 Peco bullhead points has been ordered, along with a non-scenic code-75 electrofrog example. (It will be hidden behind a backscene, although it will still comprise part of the loop, which is why it's of the same track profile. All the fiddleyard trackwork will be code 100, because it's so much cheaper!) Also in the post are some more laser-cut MDF handrails to finish off the above-track-level aspects of the Oykel-like (Oykish?) Viaduct, and a ready-to-plant Skaledale rail-over-river bridge. Depending on how the track plan develops, I may need another, but one will be sufficient for this month.I am trying to be organised about how I prepare. As stuff arrives, it gets segregated into preparatory boxes labelled with things like 'UPPER BRANCHLINE' or 'LOWER QUAYSIDE'. It is remarkably satisfying to see the boxes slowly fill. It is also a way to ensure (I hope) future satisfaction: buying everything I need slowly and well in advance means (I hope) that build progress won't be halted too often by having to wait for missing bits and pieces to arrive - a particular issue with resin items, because once the tooling required to make them wears out, it's done, and then the S/H market is your only option. In the meantime (pics to follow), I have decided that I am unsatisfied with the fairly weedy piers provided with the MDF T-section viaduct I've been building, so I am wrapping some 9mm ply offcuts in Wills Coarse Stone to make some slightly more substantial supports. The bridge is part of the climb up to the upper branchline, so please don't panic if it appears to be sloped - that's on purpose!I do sometimes wonder if I have fashioned a rod for my own back by starting with what will almost inevitably become the most scenically-complex area of the baseboard: a three-level, 7-track-containing ravine that features three tunnel mouths, five bridges and at least two major waterfalls. The end result will, I think, look spectacular, and I'm looking forward to posing trains on it, but getting to that point is likely to be slow, complicated and expensive - that's a lot of scenic features to incorporate in quite a small area!Here's hoping it all works out... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Good luck sounds like this will be some project especially if you are on your own will look forward to updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) On 31/05/2018 at 10:38, lmsforever said: Good luck sounds like this will be some project especially if you are on your own will look forward to updates. Drawing some conclusions solely from your username, you may find the picture below of interest: it's one of the trains I intend to run on Girtby Sea. Now, if only we could persuade Hornby to release a composite coach to match the others... I also realise that after announcing Girtby as an LNER layout I have so far failed to provide a single image of any LNER locomotive or piece of rolling stock! Hopefully this goes some way to redressing the balance: C1 Atlantic with Queen of Scots: K3 with refrigerated vans: J15 with cattle train Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 After faffing around with AnyRail, I can show you a rough approximation of what I'm up to. Yellow bridges are ones I have (from top to bottom: T-section viaduct; Oykish Viaduct; trestle; and to the left the Skaledale river crossing); blue represents water; waterfalls are at the top and to the left; the black line represents a cliff-face; and the green line is a backscene.Regards,Gavin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 The first of what will, I suspect, be many rethinks. Nothing major, and certainly no disaster, but in the image above, the crossovers between the fast and slow lines are going in the wrong direction. How can I tell? Because Girtby Sea will feature a through station, and one of the things I intend is that the fast lines will not be platform-facing. Therefore, if a stopping service that had been on the fast lines wishes to stop in the station, it needs to get on to the slow lines to do so. The crossovers will be far back from the station to give adequate deceleration and acceleration distances for trains. 'Tis an easy fix, especially because I haven't actually laid any of the track yet, although I'm sad to be losing the points-based curve that swept the up slow line away at a tangent from the fast lines. (The up slow line is the one that has the longest single bridge highlighted in yellow on the diagram above). I do have 48" & 60" tracksettas, though; I shall experiment to see what can be achieved.Work on the T-section viaduct has stalled due to a lack of UHU (the only glue made from owls?) but, counteracting that disappointment, some progress has been made with the Oykish Viaduct: everything at track level or above has been completed. Apologies for the dodgy phone-camera pics, and the fact that the bridge isn't sitting on a flat surface: Gavin 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Hudson Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Looks like a great idea, excellent bridges. Consider me a follower! Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted June 14, 2018 Author Share Posted June 14, 2018 A tiny modicum of progress, and an equally minor setback. The setback concerns the Oykish viaduct. The weight of a train left sitting on the middle span was causing one of the viaduct sections to lift and twist. This can be easily resolved, I think, by inserting a plasticard shim between the 'steel truss' section and the 'masonry arch' section, and supergluing the lot together. It's unlikely to be an issue when the bridge is in layout use (apart from anything else, the masonry sections will be anchored to the baseboards) but it annoys me a little that my inner civil engineer is required to have his wrist slapped by the inner quality controller...On the progress front, after some slight faffing with Hattons (who had accidentally cancelled my order), a PLA Janus and 6 PLA wagons are on their way. They will make an excellent quayside train, especially when tailed by a red Bachmann Toad-E brakevan I found on Ebay (split, I think, from the 'Jack the Saddle Tank' trainset - who knew there would ever be anything of use to come from that concoction?). All it will require is some decal lettering and that train will be good to go. I've also spoken to DCC concepts about their Powerbase product. Because my gradients will be hard work for the locos (a rise of 8" is a lot, even in 20+ feet), the product makes sense, although economically it just isn't feasible for the whole layout (Including the fiddleyards, I'm looking at somewhere on the sunny side of 800' of track). They recommend a 'run-on' at the top of the rise equal in length to the longest train making the ascent, which makes sense. The practical upshot of this is that I've had to take the track off the oft-rumoured but still unseen T-section viaduct, as I will need to lay the Powerbase on the trackbed there. And I still haven't finished the new piers for it... (although I have put together a Parkside LNER plate wagon, just to get back into the rhythm of building rolling stock). So the Powerbase goes on the shopping list for next month. (Incidentally, it's worth pointing out that I got my answer on the same day that I emailed the question. In combination with a couple of other considerations, that level of customer service has convinced me to go for Cobalt IP Analogue point motors for the scenic sections of the layout).Expensive hobby, this, isn't it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hello to Jason Isaacs.I have returned from a holiday in Germany bearing yet more bridges. I know it seems like that's literally all I do (to be honest, it seems to me that that's all I do) but it's such a fundamental requirement of this baseboard that I have no choice but to get on with it! So three Noch bridges (two large box girder bridges with - counterintuitively - an 'approach bridge' to go in the middle) form the chasm-crossing section of the Down Slow line. Given that they're steel structures, I might pick up a section of Peco steel-sleepered FB track to fit in them. Any suggestions on how those sleepers ought to be weathered? I've been using 'sleeper grime' elsewhere; it is this appropriate here too?The other purchase was a set of 6 Faller viaduct piers. The Oykish Viaduct requires 4, which leaves two for the box girder bridge, supporting the transitions between the 'box girder bridges' and the 'approach bridge'. Cunning, eh?I returned home to find a nice bundle of packages awaiting me. The PLA train mentioned in the previous post is here! The Janus in particular looks very neat - smaller than I was expecting, and quite characterful. And the big news - I have started building! The first baseboard is currently in the throes of construction in the lean-to. When I have more of it assembled, I will post pics. I'm particularly looking forward to being able to display trains in their respective positions. I will just have the metre-long twin-track Up & Down Fast bridge to construct, and that will be that for this end of the layout - there won't be another bridge for another...err...30'. That said, I don't yet know what that twin-track bridge will look like. Back to my book on British railway bridges, methinks... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) Despite the best efforts of life to get in the way, I have finished the major construction work required of the Oykel Viaduct. All it needs now is some filler and some paint before installation. Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) I did a significant amount of painting over the weekend. The three girder bridges have been sprayed with Volvo Dark Grey from Halfords, while the viaduct has had its stonework coloured (Revell #77 for the base colour; Revell #75 for the dry-brushed highlights). Behold: I'm frustrated by an Ebay seller at the minute. I ordered some brass hinges on the 4th of July; they still haven't arrived. They're only 30mm x 15mm - this should not be this difficult! I have also just finished detailing my A3 'Gay Crusader' with head lamps, coal and a crew. This is the kind of modelling job I really enjoy - small, simple, but makes a disproportionate difference to the look of the finished article.edited to add pictures and discuss LNER 108. Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) At the end of the day, No.108 runs light engine across the Oykel Viaduct. Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 A quick question for the enlightened: can anyone advise me on colour-matching the dark grey roof of a Bachmann Br Mk1 Pullman? I have a white-roofed version I'd like to repaint to match the rest of the dark-grey-roofed rake. Can anyone tell me where to get a matching colour? A close-enough Halfords rattlecan would be ideal, but any suggestion would be most gratefully received.Thanks,Gavin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Repaint all of them if you want them to match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Repaint all of them if you want them to match? Very much Plan B! It's not that it's a bad idea, as such, it's just that a) it would take much longer and require a lot more paint, b) it would decimate the resale value of the stock, and c) it would require a lot of research that Bachmann has already done to get a shade that matches how these things appeared in service. Cheers, Gavin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manna Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 G'Day Folks Why would you want them to match, no two coach roofs were the same colour ? manna Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) G'Day Folks Why would you want them to match, no two coach roofs were the same colour ? manna I think, possibly, that your point - while entirely valid, and especially in the context of a discussion on the variation of shade caused by age, weathering, etc.- somewhat passes by my situation, which is that I have 4 Mk1 coaches whose roofs are very dark grey and one whose roof is white, and which therefore stands out like a very sore thumb... edit: the photos here demonstrate the homogeneity of roofs that I am trying to replicate: http://www.semgonline.com/coach/coupe/coupe_se04.pdf Edited July 19, 2018 by Black Marlin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) Progress! The Ebay seller, upon whose hinges I was waiting, eventually gave up and gave me a refund. However, not to be outfoxed by circumstance, I had a brainwave. I found a 15mm-wide steel bracket among some DIY supplies and took my junior hacksaw to it. This gave me the two 15mm x 30mm plates I needed. Thereafter, construction of the bridge proceeded smoothly. As I described in post #12, the bridge consists of two girder bridges with an 'approach bridge' in the centre, supported by two stone viaduct piers. To tie the assembly together - both figuratively and literally - I added 4 H-section girders from the top of the girder bridges to the top of the central 'approach bridge' span. The whole thing was then sprayed with Halford's Volvo Dark Grey, while the wooden footpaths were picked out in Tamiya Earth colour. At some point I will add rust and other weathering to the structure. This is the Down Slow bridge. The primary traffic this bridge will carry will be coal (some of Girtby Sea's coal trains are, at least by train-set standards, long) so I've posed a short coal train on it to show it off. I now need to give some thought to the next bridge: the twin-track central structure that will take the fast lines across the ravine. My thinking is that I'll build the trackbed out of 9mm ply and add sides, perhaps in the shape of an arch. Still much to ponder... Regards, Gavin P.S. Here's an LNER O6 on a many-wagon coal train: Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted July 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2018 Progress! The Ebay seller, upon whose hinges I was waiting, eventually gave up and gave me a refund. However, not to be outfoxed by circumstance, I had a brainwave. I found a 15mm-wide steel bracket among some DIY supplies and took my junior hacksaw to it. This gave me the two 15mm x 30mm plates I needed. Thereafter, construction of the bridge proceeded smoothly. As I described in post #12, the bridge consists of two girder bridges with an 'approach bridge' in the centre, supported by two stone viaduct piers. To tie the assembly together - both figuratively and literally - I added 4 H-section girders from the top of the girder bridges to the top of the central 'approach bridge' span. The whole thing was then sprayed with Halford's Volvo Dark Grey, while the wooden footpaths were picked out in Tamiya Earth colour. At some point I will add rust and other weathering to the structure. This is the Down Slow bridge. The primary traffic this bridge will carry will be coal (some of Girtby Sea's coal trains are, at least by train-set standards, long) so I've posed a short coal train on it to show it off. IMG_3883.JPG IMG_3885.JPG IMG_3886.JPG I now need to give some thought to the next bridge: the twin-track central structure that will take the fast lines across the ravine. My thinking is that I'll build the trackbed out of 9mm ply and add sides, perhaps in the shape of an arch. Still much to ponder... Regards, Gavin P.S. Here's an LNER O6 on a many-wagon coal train: LNER O6 7675 LNER Coal Train #1.JPG Very nice. The Faller support pillars for the girder bridge look underscale to my eye... too narrow. Probably due in part to being HO scale rather than 4mm. Have you considered the Wills viaduct support pillars as an alternative? These are designed for single or double track, and as well as being more substantial they don’t have the continental style tops, but have capping stones instead. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Very nice. The Faller support pillars for the girder bridge look underscale to my eye... too narrow. Probably due in part to being HO scale rather than 4mm. Have you considered the Wills viaduct support pillars as an alternative? These are designed for single or double track, and as well as being more substantial they don’t have the continental style tops, but have capping stones instead. Phil Hi Phil Thanks for your thoughts. As it happens, the girder bridges, being Noch, are also H0 scale; the Faller piers match the width of the trackbed exactly. They also match the Faller viaducts you can see further up the page, so for the sake of architectural consistency I will keep them as they are. That being said, I need to consider how the twin-track central bridge will work, so your suggestion of the Wills viaduct piers is not wasted! Kind regards, Gavin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) This weekend, I managed for the first time to erect the main trackwork across the ravine board. A big moment! (Ignore the Hornby track: it's only there for impressionistic purposes. The real thing will be laid with Peco Bullhead in serious quantities - you think that a box of 25 yards is an enormous amount until you remember that in those areas where you have 7 tracks that gives you only a little more than 3 yards of progress per box...) Regards, Gavin Edited July 16, 2023 by Black Marlin Picture restoration 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamespetts Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I see that you like bridges: those are some splendid bridges. This does look as though it will be a very interesting layout - I should be most interested to see progress (and a complete track plan). Do I understand correctly that this is to represent (inter alia) a minor station on a major mainline (i.e. the EMCL)? I note that you specify a gradient of 8" in 20', which amounts to 3.3%. From what I understand, a maximum of 1% is recommended for longer trains. You might be able to get away with 3.3% with PowerBase - but this involves sticking a magnet on the bottom of all of your locomotives (at least, all of those which you wish to traverse the gradients). For reference, 3.3% is significantly steeper than the Lickey incline, and model trains are generally no better at climbing gradients than full sized trains. I note that you are planning to use DC and to be able to convert to DCC later. You may want to consider how you might do this with particular care to avoid having to do a lot of re-wiring later. One interesting thing to note is that, if you are ever thinking of computer control, separating the track into lots of isolated sections (as you would for DC cab control) is necessary for feedback sensors so that the computer knows where on the layout that the trains are. However, wiring for DCC is not just about track feeds: you may want to think about how you will wire all the points and signals, too: these can be bus wired using electronic control (which is preferable to having a wire for everything going back to a simple switch on the control panel), and you might want to consider using electronic control for these even before using DCC for your track feed. (Indeed, MERG now have a whole system for computer control of DC layouts). In any event, I do like larger pre-nationalisation mainline layouts, so I shall be most interested to see how this goes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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