Dapol 121 and 122 dmus in O gauge

[Mol_PMB]

To my eyes the grey band seems very deep and the blue somehow not deep enough, on this livery. I’m sure there were variations in reality though. 

[muddys-blues]

13 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

To my eyes the grey band seems very deep and the blue somehow not deep enough, on this livery. I’m sure there were variations in reality though. 

I have just checked on Railcar.co.uk, and there are variations, some vehicles have the lower white line through the bottom point of the door grab handles, and some are lower, as per the model 

[muddys-blues]

Here is a good picture off Railcar.co.uk showing 2 x 122’s together, and a clear depth difference between units.

 

copyright Steve Jones 
 

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks!

That’s quite a dramatic difference - also at the cantrail. 

[philiprporter]

I've just received a class 122 and despite one hour running in each way, it runs really badly - grinds along, then one motor bogie seems to slow/partly seize and drag it to a halt - more juice applied and it lurches forward, but the same result, but motor doesn't stop it moving completely with more power applied. I've had a look at the gears inside the offending motor bogie and all seems fine - not over-greased. It does seem very odd that a fair few of these DMUs have this issue - I would remove the motor, but I am sure that would invalidate the warranty - but I'm wondering of this is a 100% proven method of resolving this, in which case I may do it, as two motors are overkill for this model. Would be interested to hear if motor removal does indeed solve this issue for all those who have taken this somewhat drastic step? Thanks, Phil. 

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, philiprporter said:

I've just received a class 122 

One of the revised ones or second hand?

 

Not every model is necessarily going to have exactly the same problem so while removing a motor will sort it if the two motors are fighting, if yours has something else wrong it might not.

 

I'd send it back personally but if fiddling then establish the actual problem first.

[philiprporter]

27 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

One of the revised ones or second hand?

 

Not every model is necessarily going to have exactly the same problem so while removing a motor will sort it if the two motors are fighting, if yours has something else wrong it might not.

 

I'd send it back personally but if fiddling then establish the actual problem first.

This was bought brand new, but I am guessing it could be old stock? Thanks for your helpful advice-I will send it back given that checking obvious things (back to back, grease in gears etc) hasn't thrown anything obvious up. One thing I have just noticed is that the offending motor runs quite a bit slower at all voltages, but is erratic too (speeds up and slows down for no obvious reason) so something is clearly amiss. 

[Hal Nail]

52 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

This was bought brand new, but I am guessing it could be old stock? 

I think they will have a different product code.

 

I'm not averse to taking things apart but when theres a known problem and better ones around I wouldn't bother personally (and I'm not entirely convinced what you are describing is quite the same as other people were).

 

Good luck anyway

 

ps if getting a replacement, you can ask for it to be tested, especially given whats happened. Rails and Tower have both done that for me before.

Edited September 12 by Hal Nail

[muddys-blues]

All mine that had dodgy running where the 21pin early versions, (the later versions are 22 plux boards)  I have removed one motor from each and they are all smooth runners now 

 

Hope this helps 

Craig 

[philiprporter]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I think they will have a different product code.

 

I'm not averse to taking things apart but when theres a known problem and better ones around I wouldn't bother personally (and I'm not entirely convinced what you are describing is quite the same as other people were).

 

Good luck anyway

 

ps if getting a replacement, you can ask for it to be tested, especially given whats happened. Rails and Tower have both done that for me before.

Thanks very much indeed - yes I will ask for the new one to be tested and like you, I'm usually OK to take things to bits to solve issues, but this is a bit beyond what I am comfortable with in terms of what I can usefully do to resolve it. All the best, Phil. 

[two tone green]

Got a new version 122 on Saturday at Guildex and it runs superbly. Much much better than the original version which is terrible with all the symptoms you describe. 
As it’s been mentioned already. The new version is a Plux22 decoder interface with the original being 22pin. 
 

Just by way of a sideline, I spoke with the Dapol guys at the show which has resulted in them sending me a new Mk2 motor used in the new version 121/122 to replace the motor in my original version. Once it arrives I will let you know if it solves the issues. 
 

[philiprporter]

1 hour ago, two tone green said:

Got a new version 122 on Saturday at Guildex and it runs superbly. Much much better than the original version which is terrible with all the symptoms you describe. 
As it’s been mentioned already. The new version is a Plux22 decoder interface with the original being 22pin. 
 

Just by way of a sideline, I spoke with the Dapol guys at the show which has resulted in them sending me a new Mk2 motor used in the new version 121/122 to replace the motor in my original version. Once it arrives I will let you know if it solves the issues. 
 

Thats really interesting thanks very much indeed. It's going back tomorrow so hopefully it will be either a repair or replacement and if a repair, maybe they will swap to Mk2 motors - fingers crossed! Best wishes, Phil. 

[two tone green]

2 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

Thats really interesting thanks very much indeed. It's going back tomorrow so hopefully it will be either a repair or replacement and if a repair, maybe they will swap to Mk2 motors - fingers crossed! Best wishes, Phil. 

I have had a few of the new ones go through my hands for fitting of DCC sound decoders and speakers and not one has been bad. 
It was knowing they ran well made me take the plunge and buy another knowing it would be ok. 
If it had just been a rerun without I would never had gone near it and waited for the Heljan versions. 

[Hal Nail]

10 hours ago, two tone green said:

Just by way of a sideline, I spoke with the Dapol guys at the show which has resulted in them sending me a new Mk2 motor used in the new version 121/122 to replace the motor in my original version. Once it arrives I will let you know if it solves the issues. 

Be interested to hear more about this when youve done it - is it a straight swap etc. My original one always ran fine but I wouldn't mind buying a replacement to future proof it if an easy job.

[two tone green]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Be interested to hear more about this when youve done it - is it a straight swap etc. My original one always ran fine but I wouldn't mind buying a replacement to future proof it if an easy job.

Yes it’s a straight swap. Screws to remove the bogie frame and then four screws holding the motor in place. Two wires to unsolder and out it comes. 
Be careful though. On the original version of 121/122 I noticed the pick up and motor feed wires are all black to the bogie. On the new version the wires are coloured with black and red wires going to the motor which is important to get the motor turning in the right direction. It’s more important if you still have two motors installed otherwise you can end up with the motors bogies going in different directions. So mark the wires, say top and bottom.
If one motor and DCC controlled then it’s not quite as important as a CV change in CV29 can reversion the direction of the motor. 

The biggest problem is grease, there is tons of grease in the original version so soldering can be a bit more of a challenge but if you clean things it works out ok. 

[two tone green]

Forgot the photo of the motor terminals marked + & -  

This is the old motor out of the original 121/122. 
Awaiting the new motor 

Edited September 13 by two tone green

[muddys-blues]

Gents a quick question with regards to Dapol, are they offering an exchange service for the early version motors to the new versions ? 
 

Thanks in advance

Craig 

[philiprporter]

53 minutes ago, two tone green said:

Forgot the photo of the motor terminals marked + & -  

This is the old motor out of the original 121/122. 
Awaiting the new motor 

 

Very helpful thank you - are Dapol replacing motors under warranty? Will let you know what pans out with mine - it's on its way back to the retailer today. 

[37114]

Interesting to see they have put a different motor in now. I had same symptons as @philiprporter and single motored my 121, made a big difference and slow running is massively improved which is important as I only run the unit a short distance on the layout. 

[Hal Nail]

I'd be surprised if a load of people from RMWeb suddenly asking for free motors gets a positive response but let us know! In the meantime they have them here and this is the new one:

 

https://dccsupplies.com/shop/class-121-122-o-motor/

 

 

[two tone green]

As for warranty and motor exchange with Dapol, not in my case and certainly my 121 is out of warranty. 
If changing the motor does solve the running issue then the cost of a new motor is a lot less than a whole new 121/122. 
Perhaps dealers will sell at a reduced price the original version and if that price and the cost of a replacement new motor is less than a new version it may be worth a punt. 

[muddys-blues]

Thanks for the motor link Ian @Hal Nail, £30 !! I will just stick with running mine as single motorised units, they are certainly smoother and trouble free for now.

 

at Guildex I did ask one of the Dapol staff if Dapol had any plans to release the 121 & 122 DTS trailer cars … his response was quite muted.

 

Will have to see what the Heljan model looks like 

 

Craig 

[Hal Nail]

43 minutes ago, muddys-blues said:

Thanks for the motor link Ian @Hal Nail, £30 !! I will just stick with running mine as single motorised units, they are certainly smoother and trouble free for now.

 

Mine runs ok albeit not as silky smooth as my Dapol tank locos but I did actually buy a spare motor. Totally unneccessary as theoretically my existing two would both be fine individually, which perhaps proves why I don't generally do things on impulse!

 

I must get round to finishing it. I've opened a few windows and fitted destination blinds but stalled over the format. Ideally I'd have a headcode still in use but no blue squares but they both went at the same time. I also think flush glazing the cab would make a big difference. 

Edited September 14 by Hal Nail

[two tone green]

Still no motor which was ordered Tuesday from Dapol 😔

[F-UnitMad]

8 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I also think flush glazing the cab would make a big difference. 

One reason - along with others - I'd like to see the HJ version before committing to what would very much be just a "nice to have" purchase in my case.