Diagram O36 GWR Open Wagons

[WillCav]

Hi all,

 

I have been looking for uses for the 17'6" length 9' wheelbase under-frames of Ratio GWR O29 wagons - I'm using the tops with standard 10' wheelbase under-frames to make later O31 variants.

 

One of my options is the O24/26/36 5-plank open wagon types which all have a wide top plank (029 kit has the wide plank lower down).

 

The O24 types are easy to model as there is a photo in Atkins et al and the only difference for O26 is buffers.

 

O36 however is a bit confusing - It is vacuum braked and has a sheet supporter rail.  There were only ten built, all in one lot (lot 976, 110991-111000) but the build dates are 1925-8 and they are a mixture of Morton and DCIII braked.   It seems a bit odd to change the design halfway through such a small batch?

 

I can't find any photos of them - does anyone know of any photos of them?

 

Does anyone know which numbers were allocated to which brake types?

 

I would really like to model the DCIII variant but have no diagram to work to - would the brake levers be the same distance from the middle of the wagon as on a 16' long 9' wheelbase  wagon or would they be the same distance from the end of the wagon?

 

Many thanks

 

Will

[Wickham Green]

Hi all,

 

I have been looking for uses for the 17'6" length 9' wheelbase under-frames of Ratio GWR O29 wagons - I'm using the tops with standard 10' wheelbase under-frames to make later O31 variants.

 

One of my options is the O24/26/36 5-plank open wagon types which all have a wide top plank (029 kit has the wide plank lower down).

 

The O24 types are easy to model as there is a photo in Atkins et al and the only difference for O26 is buffers.

 

O36 however is a bit confusing - It is vacuum braked and has a sheet supporter rail.  There were only ten built, all in one lot (lot 976, 110991-111000) but the build dates are 1925-8 and they are a mixture of Morton and DCIII braked.   It seems a bit odd to change the design halfway through such a small batch?

 

I can't find any photos of them - does anyone know of any photos of them?

 

Does anyone know which numbers were allocated to which brake types?

 

I would really like to model the DCIII variant but have no diagram to work to - would the brake levers be the same distance from the middle of the wagon as on a 16' long 9' wheelbase  wagon or would they be the same distance from the end of the wagon?

 

Many thanks

 

Will

Having had a good look at the Atkins et al 'bible last night, I'm probably as confused as you are !

 

Dia 36 is well out of sequence with its contemporaries and I guess it was a retrospective issue like V33 which 'also' recognised a pre-existing brake difference ( in 1942 ) ..... but why a small batch were built over such a long period is a complete mystery : they might actually have been built in two batches ( 1925 AND 1928 ) rather than in dribs 'n' drabs over those years though the consistent number series is odd in either scenario. I suspect they were built with a specific traffic in mind - but that doesn't help with any of the foregoing.

 

What is fairly certain is that there were NO OTHER 17'6'' 'ordinary traffic' wagons built that late with D/C brake gear, so - unfortunately - I'd treat the assertion that some were so equipped with a fair bit of caution unless ( please ) someone comes up with concrete evidence !

[hmrspaul]

Am I wrong to believe that the GWR wagon registers for above 100000 are at Kew? These would provide the information on brake type. [The first 100000 are at the NRM and readily accessible on request]

 

Paul

[Steamport Southport]

Wasn't the ABS kit a O36?

 

I'll have a rummage tomorrow and see if I can find some info in the books and magazines.

 

I'm sure the GWJ featured the open wagons in a series.

 

Just looked at the Index and issues 35, 38, 39 and 40 contain the details for the Modern Opens. With Diags O24, O26, O29 & O36 17'6" x 9'0"wb covered in issue 35.

 

http://www.gwrjournal.com/index.php?s=open+wagon&t=All&o=title&page=1

 

 

 

Jason

Edited March 8, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[Wickham Green]

Wasn't the ABS kit a O36?

 

According to my fleet list I built an O24 and an O36 from ABS kits ............. I'll have to check what I did for brakes on the latter when I get home !

[WillCav]

Thanks for all your assistance and information on diagram O36, Wickham Green, hmrspaul & Steamport Southport.

 

I didn't even know that wagon registers are available - I might have to pop to Kew when I'm next in the area.  I won't start a DCIII O36 until I've got some evidence that they actually existed!

 

Many thanks

 

Will

[Wickham Green]

Thanks for all your assistance and information on diagram O36, Wickham Green, hmrspaul & Steamport Southport.

 

I didn't even know that wagon registers are available - I might have to pop to Kew when I'm next in the area.  I won't start a DCIII O36 until I've got some evidence that they actually existed!

 

Many thanks

 

Will

Looks like it's the best part of sixteen years since I built my model of No.110996 - and at that time I concluded / guessed / applied Rule 1 and fitted Morton brakes ....................... possibly the very same thought processes that NOW make me think that DCIII brakes were unlikely at that date !!?!

[hmrspaul]

Thanks for all your assistance and information on diagram O36, Wickham Green, hmrspaul & Steamport Southport.

 

I didn't even know that wagon registers are available - I might have to pop to Kew when I'm next in the area.  I won't start a DCIII O36 until I've got some evidence that they actually existed!

 

Many thanks

 

Will

Please check they do exist. No problem about the first 100000 being here at the York NRM but the later is only hearsay. I had hoped one of the GWR specialists would tell me I was talking rubbish, or confirm they are there.

 

Paul

Edited March 9, 2018 by hmrspaul

[jim.snowdon]

The registers for 100000 upwards were located in the Porchester Road PRO in the 1970s, so although I can't confirm it, it ought to be a fair bet that they were transferred to Kew.

 

Jim

[Adam]

Am I wrong to believe that the GWR wagon registers for above 100000 are at Kew? These would provide the information on brake type. [The first 100000 are at the NRM and readily accessible on request]

 

Paul

 

Yes, here they are, in the series T[he] N[ational] A[rchives], RAIL 254. What I think you are referring to is this one: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4350223 (TNA, RAIL 254/380, formerly GW5/380).

 

I go to Kew fairly regularly as part of my job - not to look at rail series usually, though the sale file for the West Somerset Railway was fun (and legitimate) so this isn't a corner of the catalogue I'm familiar with, or that I've seen cited in even the best-researched publications. If anyone has a reference for the later wagon censuses (from the '50s and '60s), that would be of use/interest to me at least.

 

Adam

[hmrspaul]

Yes, here they are, in the series T[he] N[ational] A[rchives], RAIL 254. What I think you are referring to is this one: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4350223 (TNA, RAIL 254/380, formerly GW5/380).

 

I go to Kew fairly regularly as part of my job - not to look at rail series usually, though the sale file for the West Somerset Railway was fun (and legitimate) so this isn't a corner of the catalogue I'm familiar with, or that I've seen cited in even the best-researched publications. If anyone has a reference for the later wagon censuses (from the '50s and '60s), that would be of use/interest to me at least.

 

Adam

Adam

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I'm not sure. The ones at the NRM are extremely large tomes, and there are many of them. The report for each wagon stretches across two pages. The reference you sent has a date on it and that wouldn't be appropriate for the NRM ones as they start a long time ago (I haven't looked at early numbers) and even the numerous Welsh railway wagons inherited in 1922ish are taking numbers previously used, with those first uses condemned.

 

Paul

Edited March 12, 2018 by hmrspaul

[Adam]

Adam

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I'm not sure. The ones at the NRM are extremely large tomes, and there are many of them. The report for each wagon stretches across two pages. The reference you sent has a date on it and that wouldn't be appropriate for the NRM ones as they start a long time ago (I haven't looked at early numbers) and even the numerous Welsh railway wagons inherited in 1922ish are taking numbers previously used, with those first uses condemned.

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul - the likelihood would be that the documents you are referring to are somewhere in the RAIL 254 series (there's a long run of NER registers and repair records for GWR in there). If we had the original reference code we would be able to translate across (in fact, Discovery - the TNA catalogue - would probably pick it up); I can find out who the relevant specialist at Kew is easily enough who will almost certainly know but it would be nice to be clear - has the detail been published anywhere? In the HMRS back catalogue for example?

 

Adam