Help with new heating and lighting choices

[Bomag]

My railway room has had to be taken back to the brickwork for structural repairs so I have the chance to start again. It is 3.5m x 3.8m ex-bedroom with a small entrance lobby which is the length of the open door; therefore I can use the whole 13.3 m² space for a layout (N Gauge) with a well big enough for a model desk towards the window. The design of the layout is for the future what I am looking for is recommendations for heating and lighting.

 

For heating I would like something which can keep a reasonable constant temperature, possible with cooling in the summer (and not too expensive to run!). Also dust removal would be a bonus. Given problems in the past with radiators I would prefer something which uses air circulation/pressure ventilation. If needed something with an external vent could be possible. Has anybody any ideas?

 

In terms of lighting some of the possibilities identified on the forum or more suited to sheds or lofts. I possibly need two sets of lights; one in the ceiling for room illumination (and potentially lighting for the modelling desk), the other lighting of the layout. I have been looking at exhibition layouts and LED strip lighting for the layout could be a good solution and would be a more blue/white (low temperature) light. Any experience with these strip lights or with suggestions on room lighting?

[Junctionmad]

Air circulation systems exacerbate dust issues and unless planed carefully create temperature variations and unwanted temperature gradients and resulting air movements

 

But the obvious one for circulation based heating and cooling is reverse cycle air conditioning , but this can be expensive to run

 

The other alternative is under floor heating , unobtrusive , but can be expensive , either electrical or hot water is available

 

Cost tends to be a major factor in decisions rather then outright technical merit

Edited March 3, 2018 by Junctionmad

[Matt]

Can strongly recommend led strips for lighting. I built a simple gantry from sections of skirting board glued to create an L and then used self adhesive led strips in the corner of the L. You'll need a transformer to drive but great even light and the overall setup is very lightweight so needs only small support brackets. You Can get various lux levels and light colours too - I went natural white which I think was circa 4500k. M

[davetheroad]

If you are using LED's make sure you buy good quality ones, apparently the cheapo variety will flood your railway room with radio frequency interference. I use fluorescent daylight tubes and bulbs, lots of lovely simulated daylight.

[Pete the Elaner]

I use fluorescent daylight tubes and bulbs, lots of lovely simulated daylight.

Me too & I recommend it.

My layout consumes the master bedroom. I used to have standard bulbs but changed these for a double fluorescent tube just over a year ago, then replaced the standard tubes with daylight ones.

My eyes can hardly tell the difference between std fluorescent & daylight tubes but I don't need to colour correct any photos so I guess they give out a different colour.

It is ideal for modelling. The room is much brighter & the only real shadow is beneath the layout.

[chris p bacon]

Underfloor heating would give you an even spread of heat.

 

For the lighting I'd just have something simple for the room and then light the bench and the layout independantly.

[Bernard Lamb]

To keep a room of that size at a constant temperature will not be cheap.

As you are starting from scratch I would suggest underfloor heating as probably the best way to keep too much dust from circulating.

As for lighting why not look into a smart system?

I have recently started to look into this and although I have not yet investigated the use in a model railway context I have found out enough to see the possibilities.

I you can link the railway controls to the lighting controls and run them through your phone, or she with the name you must not speak, who sits on the mantle piece, the possibilities are fascinating.

At the moment I have not got past asking for the light to be turned on and getting the local weather forecast.

Bernard

[hayfield]

My new railway room has a radiator off the central heating, after suffering the costs of heating a converted garage (only when in use) the ability to run off the existing central heating system (railway room is in a new extension to the house) was extremely appealing, both as its warm when I ever I want to use it and I doubt if it adds much to the running costs of the system

 

As for lights, I learnt from my converted garage that for the workbench you need plenty of light, especially from behind you

[2mmMark]

It sounds like you're in a perfect position to install very good insulation, possibly behind a drywall finish . This could be a lot more beneficial than any specific type of heating as you'll get an even temperature all year round.

 

I use LED as as my bench lighting as I can then have powerful lights all year round. Incandescents in warm weather are not much fun!

[yelrow]

My railway room, is vast, some 24x20. In france you can buy these storage type heaters that heat up the  internal brick/type things, which release heat over several hours. Also able to set to frost control. They are not expensive to run, and release heat all day. Gamme vert, is the system. Floor is felted and carpeted. Temp never drops below 5 degrees.  Walls and ceiling are pine clad, with 6 inch fibre glass rolls between cladding and wall.. john

[Ouroborus]

For heating and cooling, I think you could consider looking at an inverter air conditioning unit. Fully installed, it'll cost in the region of 2k. However, cheaper to run than you might think and it'll give you a toasty room in a few minutes if desired. The joy of cooling in the summer cannot be understated. If your room is back to brick, this would be the time since there are some big holes to drill. A spur of an existing socket is likely to be sufficient for the juice. They do not extract the air though, so the dust will just be recirculated.

 

As for lighting, if you go down the smart home path then you can have Google or Alexa to switch your lights on and off as desired, so a single voice command can switch it all on/off. I find this handy because some of my switches are at the back of cupboards and difficult to get to. With some lights such as Hue, you can also control the temperature to set warmth for sunsets/dusk. I find these lighting effects make a lovely difference to playing trains.

[Ouroborus]

I meant to add, by 'all' I meant Google/Alexa can switch the sockets on and off as well. So "alexa, turn trains on" switches on all the lights and sockets

[The Johnster]

I would not recommend flourescent lighting; I find it's flickering and buzzing very distracting, and the light harsh.  You need a cold bluish light for the layout unless you are modelling early morning or late afternoon sunlit conditions, and this lighting should be as diffused as possible in order to minimise shadows.  My BLT is set in South Wales in the 1950s, and I am going for a grey overcast day sort of look, gloomy in aspect but bright enough to operate by!  I use led anglepoises for the layout, and a conventional anglepoise for the work table; the bedroom the layout live in is conventionally lit.

 

Layout lighting is a subject within itself, and can be very complex.  The basics, IMHO, are to adequately and evenly light the layout and avoid shadows as much as you can, but to avoid directly overhead lighting (which illuminates the tops of your trains and little else) and especially any light which shines in your eyes at your operating position(s).  You are aiming to cast light on the side of the model you are viewing (or the spectator is viewing at an exhibition), but avoid having it behind you or it will cast your shadow over the layout.  A proscenium arch approach is advisable; it finishes off the appearance of the layout as well in a domestic bedroom or similar location.  My bedroom is painted in a soft warm off-white which distributes light well; if you have a separate railway room you can use light grey or blue to enhance the lighting for this purpose.

 

If you can use natural lighting and run to a timetable, try to orientate your layout correctly so that north on the model is somewhere close to real north!  If you cannot orientate in this way, some trickery with mirrors or reflective surfaces may help!

 

Heating is my household central heating, but the bedroom radiator is turned down to the minimum, which satisfies several aspects; neither me nor my partner like the bedroom to be too warm, and the temperature is a good few degrees cooler than the rest of the flat; it is the shaded side of the building in summer.  It sort of doesn't matter what temperature the railway is kept at (within reason) but one needs to avoid temperature differences, with will tear your layout to bits with expansion and contraction.  The room needs to be dry as well; damp can play havoc with wooden baseboards especially at the joins.

 

My 3 layout anglepoises are £25 each from Maplin's (get a wiggle on), and have 3 intensity settings and the option of cold blue, warm white, or a mixture of lighting; I find them a flexible and effective means of lighting the layout, while leaving the rest of the room dark enough for beloved to have a snooze during my operating sessions if she wants to.  What happens when she wakes up and distracts me is none of your business, but very pleasant...

[Bomag]

Thanks for the replies. The railway room is on the first floor of a 1910 semi, having looked at underfloor systems they seem to all need to be plastered/rendered in. Does anybody know of systems that can sit below existing floorboads or can sit on top of joists in place of floorboards?

[Nearholmer]

Insulate, insulate, and then insulate some more.

 

Once you’ve done that, a tiny amount of heating will suffice.

 

If you want to get really obsessive about dust, fit a slight positive pressure system, with filtering on the intake. To get the number of air-changes per hour you will need, it won’t need to be very powerful. But, creating a layout can be a dusty job, so this might be overkill until you’ve finished.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Nearholmer

[chris p bacon]

Thanks for the replies. The railway room is on the first floor of a 1910 semi, having looked at underfloor systems they seem to all need to be plastered/rendered in. Does anybody know of systems that can sit below existing floorboads or can sit on top of joists in place of floorboards?

 

Turn the radiator up to full in the room below......

[Damo666]

Thanks for the replies. The railway room is on the first floor of a 1910 semi, having looked at underfloor systems they seem to all need to be plastered/rendered in. Does anybody know of systems that can sit below existing floorboads or can sit on top of joists in place of floorboards?

If you wish to salvage your existing floorboards, you can install a UFH (Under Floor Heating) spreader plate.

You take up your floorboards, place the spreader plates on top of your joists, lay in the UFH pipes and replace the floorboards. You will need to carefully notch out or drill a hole in your joists to get the UFH pipes from one section of joist to the other. Notching is bad news, weakens the joists. A hole in the centre of the joist (half-way between the top and the bottom) in the neutral axis is better.

 

If your floorboards are old, creaky, split etc and you want to replace the flooring, then you could use a chipboard which has a groove to receive the UFH pipes.

This may be thicker than your existing floorboards, so some trimming of the underside of the door etc may be necessary.

 

Edited to add links (no connection with either company). Many other suppliers available, just giving a generic description of the solutions.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Damo666

[teaky]

Thanks for the replies. The railway room is on the first floor of a 1910 semi, having looked at underfloor systems they seem to all need to be plastered/rendered in. Does anybody know of systems that can sit below existing floorboads or can sit on top of joists in place of floorboards?

There are systems for use under laminate and engineered wood flooring.  Here is one example: https://www.screwfix.com/p/klima-underfloor-heating-foil-kit-for-wooden-floor-5m/63623

 

This assumes you would be putting down new flooring on top of the existing floorboards.

 

I would tend to agree with Nearholmer's suggestion though.