RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2018 If you do, I suppose you could also claim to have 'copped' the other two engines that they were previously fitted to (even if numbers are crossed through)! Do you know what they were? I can't remember the other numbers although one was definitely still in traffic - and in works for a Heavy General at that time. I had in any case seen the third one anyway and it might even have still been about at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Hi All, That’s great to know that seeing the bits count as a cop because as a child of the mid 1970s I get to tick all sorts off! Take a look at No. 4079 and there are bits from Nos.4074, 5030, 7024 and many more! There’s King and a Star in there too... All the best, Castle Edited March 21, 2018 by Castle 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Hi All, That’s great to know that seeing the bits count as a cop because as a child of the mid 1970s I get to tick all sorts off! Take a look at No. 4079 and there are bits from Nos.4074, 5030, 7024 and many more! There’s King and a Star in there too... All the best, Castle I have often wondered what parts of the original 7013 were on it when it was withdrawn as Windsor Castle, and what parts were left on the original Windsor Castle when 7013 was withdrawn. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Hi Keith, When answering that question, you have to remember the way that locomotives were overhauled at Swindon. For a major overhaul, it went in and was dismantled. The tender went to the tender shop, the boiler to the boiler shop and so on. Parts were checked and if they needed work, the next available refurbished part was taken from stores and the previous went in for refurbishment. As a loco got older, there was less and less of the original locomotive left. I’ll predictably quote from the record sheets of No. 4079 as it is the engine I’m most familiar with and I published them in the back of my Haynes Castle Class Manual (all good book stores and all!) so you can see the actual document that is in the GWT collection at Didcot. Over its 40 year working life, Pendennis Castle had: Three new sets of cylinders 18 boiler changes 37 tender swaps and 40 visits to Swindon - the equivalent of one a year! Most of those are what is called light repairs which meant that the whole loco wasn’t stripped down. But if you think that every time that happened, bits might be exchanged - the only bits we are sure is Pendennis Castle from construction in 1924 are the main frames. The number of repairs and the amount of stampings of the loco number on them confirms that much. We can also confirm the name and number plates. The rest is open to debate and indeed the following modifications were done to the locomotive itself off the top of my head (by no means an exhaustive list): Buffers Sanders (all three configurations have been fitted) 3 to 5 glass lubricator which added the second oil pipe cover on the fireman’s side of the smokebox Bogie brakes removed Different styles of driving wheels The addition of the fire iron tool tunnel on the fireman’s side running plate Removal of the vertical brass trim on the front edge of the cab Steam pipes from smokebox to outer cylinder style changed So the answer as far as the original Windsor Castle goes (it was of similar age to No. 4079) - probably not a lot. The Ex No. 7013? Being newer, a little more. It goes to prove the old thought about steam locomotives in the main being like Trigger’s broom or Cromwell’s Knife. The parts might have been changed many times but the engine goes on and that very tricky word ‘originality’, is somewhat a moot point... I hope this helps! All the best, Castle Edited March 23, 2018 by Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Three new sets of cylinders That's interesting. When did the last new set go on? I was wondering whether the new sets of frames a very few Castles (4037, 4090 I believe at least) got in the 50s were associated with a need to fit new inside cylinders, and they didn't have the tooling for joggled frame cylinders any more, but clearly if 4079 received new cylinders fairly late on that can't have been the case. BTW can you add removing spring compensation to your list? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith George Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Thanks very much Castle for all that splendid information. I now intend getting a copy of your book. Regards, Keith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) That's interesting. When did the last new set go on? I was wondering whether the new sets of frames a very few Castles (4037, 4090 I believe at least) got in the 50s were associated with a need to fit new inside cylinders, and they didn't have the tooling for joggled frame cylinders any more, but clearly if 4079 received new cylinders fairly late on that can't have been the case. BTW can you add removing spring compensation to your list? Hi Jim, I am away from my books at the moment but I think it was the late 1930s(?). She was lucky not to get rebuilt to be honest! Perhaps it’s the luck of the champions? It was her original set and two other exchanges but I think the record neglects to say if this was one or more bits or the full set. Good spot on the brake block spring compensators. FYI: Someone has created a replacement set of those and the holes for them are still in the brake hangers... All the best, Castle Edited March 23, 2018 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 4, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2023 On 18/03/2018 at 23:58, Castle said: Hi Keith, Right, as has been said - not all of them made it all the way with the scalloped or Vauxhall type inside cylinder valve covers. There are of course two types of the Vauxhall style cover. The early narrow version is on what I like to think of as the Castles with the Star style joggled front frames. Think of this as your Mk. 1 Castle. Your Mk. 2 Castle is the first type with ‘standard’ straight through frames with the dish to allow clearance for the front bogie wheels to turn. These had a new wider inside cylinder block and as a result their Vauxhall style cover was wider too. So the first point is I assume you mean the Mk 1 batch (4073 - 4092) and not the Mk. 2 batch (4093 - 5012). As has been pointed out, Star conversions complicate things a bit but I also assume we are talking thoroughbred Castles here... Before we get into it - yes, all the preserved Castles have the later curve/curve style outer cylinder steam pipes. The earlier ones which were curve/straight/curve were prone to fractures and were replaced as a matter of course. The list of Mk. 1Castle Vauxhall front retention as I can best see it goes like this although this is a quick scan through a couple of books and is open to being wrong! Looking through the list, Nos. 73 & 79 were REALLY lucky to survive with the original look! There are lots of other stuff that changed too and if you want to know the full story then all the loco histories are presented in Ian Sixsmith’s excellent tome - ‘The Book of the Castles’, Irwell Press, ISBN 978-1-906919-04-7. All of the shed, boiler and tender allocations of all 171 are in there. I hope this helps and if there are any more questions or revisions to my list please shout out. I’ve put a question mark next to the ones I’m not sure over with a cursory glance. All the best, Castle 4073 - Y 4074 - N 4075 - Y 4076 - N 4077 - N 4078 - N 4079 - Y 4080 - N 4081 - Y 4082 - It’s sort of complicated! The engine withdrawn as 4082 (really 7013) N and the engine withdrawn as 7013 (really 4082) N. Actually, as they both were withdrawn without, I guess it isn’t complicated. I’ll get my coat... 4083 - Y? 4084 - Y 4085 - N 4086 - Y 4087 - N 4088 - N 4089 - N 4090 - N 4091 - Y 4092 - Y? Is there a list of when modified outside steam pipes were fitted to each Castle, and which/when were fitted with fire iron tunnels? I'm particularly interested in 4082, after it became 7013, but before it got new cylinders with boxed in valve covers and double chimney. This photo shows it sometime post-renumbering, with modified steam pipes, but with original style valve covers and single chimney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I'm pretty sure the alterations are covered in the Leech book. No idea where my copy is though. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portraits-Castles-locomotive-Comprehensive-Locomotives/dp/0903485893 I don't think any got the fire iron tunnel fitted retrospectively. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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