Heljan Class 58 problem when on DCC. Is there a known fault?

[PaulRhB]

If it's just the metal whisker then why do some chips work in the Metropolitan but not others? I think it may be one of the problems but not all of it

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

My limited experience of the problems with 'tin whiskers' is that they are players in the 'weird troubles' department. They typically lead to partial rectification in whatever they are conducting between tracks on the board, (akin to the technique behind the one time much used 'crystal radio') and quite how any electronics might react to that would require a lot of analysis in anything but a simple circuit.

[Damo666]

I've come to this thread as I've been trying to see where is Pin 1 on the Heljan (Olivia's) Class 58, 58030.

 

I cannot see any marking on the loco's circuit board. It doesn't help that the instruction sheet shows some generic diagram and not the specific circuit board on the model.

 

I also note that the circuit board is different to that on post #14

Edited December 1, 2018 by Damo666

[Nigelcliffe]

The only differences I can see between photo in post #28 and #14 are:

• DC blanking plate is installed in #14, whereas in #28 the socket for the decoder is visible. 
• In #14, two electrolytic capacitors are fitted to the connections C2 and C3 

Assuming all is wired correctly, there is no risk in fitting an 8-pin the wrong way round.  All that happens is the lights don't work.   Turn it round and the lights will work.   Or, the photo in #18 of the reverse of the PCB seems to show (labelling and track-tracing) that PIN-1 is nearest to the end of the adjacent end of the PCB (ie. to the Left in the photo in #28). 

[RAF96]

That board is like the picture but the end plugs are over not under. Plug the decoder in and if the lights work its in the right way. If the lights dont work then its reversed. You will do no harm by plugging it in the wrong way round.

Rob

Edit - repeating the previous post as we were both typing at the same time.

Edited December 1, 2018 by RAFHAAA96

[Damo666]

• In #14, two electrolytic capacitors are fitted to the connections C2 and C3

Yes, that what I was looking at (or not, as the case may be). From earlier posts in the thread I see that the two capacitors aren't necessary for DCC.

 

 

Assuming all is wired correctly, there is no risk in fitting an 8-pin the wrong way round.  All that happens is the lights don't work.   Turn it round and the lights will work.   Or, the photo in #18 of the reverse of the PCB seems to show (labelling and track-tracing) that PIN-1 is nearest to the end of the adjacent end of the PCB (ie. to the Left in the photo in #28). 

Thanks, that reassuring, knowing there will be no problem fitting the 8-pin the wrong way around. Also, thanks for spotting the Pin-1 from the underside pic. Hidden by Heljan, but at least it's now confirmed. Thank you again.

[Marcyg]

The board in the illustration is a standard Heljan board fitted to 33s 26s 47s etc. The 58 has a different board because of the limited space in the body. It all works the same way though. Once the capacitors are cut off, the only issue I had was putting the chip in the wrong way round. The lights won’t work, which had me scratching my head until I’d worked out what I’d done

[Damo666]

Thanks for your help with the decoder. Got it installed no problem at the weekend.

 

Whilst on the subject of installing the decoder on the 58, slightly OT, has anyone else noticed scratches inside the body?

 

The first 58 I got I sent back because 2 of the wires to one of the bogies were disconnected. Obviously only noticed it when I took the body off, and also noticed a lot of scratches on the inside, on both sides. I wondered if somebody had a real good go at removing the body (as it is quite tight) and damaged the wires at the same time.

 

The replacement also had a lot of scratches, so I began to wonder if it's just something that happens during assembly. Outside is perfect.

 

Anybody else seen something similar?

 

Fist Loco

 

Replacement Loco

Edited December 6, 2018 by Damo666

[Alan Oliver]

I recently bought a Heljan class 58 pre fitted with DCC however I cannot get the lights to change direction when the loco does? Help does anybody have any ideas? Thank you 

[dasatcopthorne]

As per earlier posts, how about turning the 8 pin plug around?

 

 

[Alan Oliver]

Think I have sorted it f1 and f2 are lights 

[Damo666]

On 27/02/2018 at 12:13, PaulRhB said:

Heljan locos and certain chips don't work well, I had it with the Metropolitan locos. I found Lenz chips or the latest Bachmann version worked but the older Bachmann chips caused the weird behaviour you mention!

I think it's the newer Bachmann 36-557 decoder in my locos that works ok.

 

Don't use gaugemaster or dccconcepts as these caused the same faults.

Hi Paul,

 

Do you (or anyone else here) have any more information on this?

 

I took my Heljan 58 out for a play earlier and it was having difficulty starting. I needed to push the throttle up to 50% before it would budge. Took it apart, cleaned the gears and added a light oil, but still the same.

Eventually I removed the decoder (DCCConcepts Zen215) and put in a blanking plate, and it runs OK on DC.

 

Googling brought me back to this thread.

 

The thing is, I cannot recall if I ever had the 58 running on the decoder. I know I ran the model in on my rolling road (on DC) when I first got it. Then put in the decoder. But as I didn’t have a layout at the time, I may never have run it with a decoder, I just can’t recall. Running it today I came across the slow running and presumed it was because I hadn’t run the loco for a long time and it got gunged up.

 

Google hasn't come up with any other links between Heljan 58 & DCCConcepts.

 

Thanks

 

 

[PaulRhB]

Sorry no more info apart from trying other chips. The only other thing is to make sure you haven’t activated shunt speed which could account for very slow running but you’d need the default list for the chip to check which function number it is. 

[Damo666]

@PaulRhB   Thanks.

 

I took out the DCCConcepts chip but the only spare ones I have was a Rails 8 pin and Rails 21 pin decoder.

 

As these are both supplied to Rails by DCCConcepts I was reluctant to even waste my time, but I’ve no patience when there’s a problem to solve.

 

The 8 pin wouldn’t fully sit as the chip is quite wide and the small capacitor on the motherboard was in the way. The 21 pin works via a connecting 8 pin harness.

 

Loco runs smoothly now.

 

I’ll have to check the DCCConcepts Zen 218 chip on another loco. Maybe it’s a fault or maybe, as your note, they just don’t like each other.

[SRman]

Maybe simply crank up the starting volts in the decoder (CV2). Keep adding to the value in CV2 until the locomotive just starts to move on speed step 1.