Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

59 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

The wagon itself is of interesting construction, in that it has no curb or side rail - the width over body is the width over solebars, i.e. journal centres plus about 5 in. What were the journal centres on BG stock? extrapolating from standard gauge, 6' 6" centres for 4' 8½" gauge, one would expect 8' 9¾". But that's using a standard gauge dimension that wasn't standardised, for PO wagons, until 1887, so I suspect a bit less - a with over solebars and body of about 9 ft seems likely.

Wheelbase 9' 0"

Length       14'  4"

Height        4'   0"

Width        9'   0"

 

That kind of construction with no curb or side rail was fairly common with older Broad Gauge Wagons.

I don't know what the journal centres would be.  I do know that there could be considerable variation in dimensions between the rolling stock belonging to the Broad Gauge companies that were absorbed into the GWR.  

 

My vote is still for no brakes.

[Annie]

Morning Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  It's No.14 again!

 

[Compound2632]

'What big wheels you've got...'

 

(Well, yes, I know they're 7 ft so nothing special but most 7 ft-ers of the time had the decency to wear skirts down to crank level at least.)

[Annie]

WIP snap of the Sully PO wagon.  The Sully & Co wagon is of course well known if not famous due to ending up at the Swindon dump to have its picture taken, but there must have been other Broad Gauge PO wagons.  Anyone got any ideas as to where further information might be found.

 

[Annie]

Evening Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture: (Courtesy of the Broad Gauge Society)  I particularly like the smaller types of engines that work away in the background while the great expresses go thundering about.  I know nothing at all about No.1400, - except that I like it a lot.  An addition bonus is the cattle vans in the background since they seem to have hardly been ever photographed.

 

 

EDIT: I've discovered that BGS Broadsheet No.38 on Pg 9 has an article on PO Wagons.  'Development and use of private wagons by many companies; Sully & Co, J C Hunt, China clay, Hennet; and builders.'  And as a further bonus it seems that Sully & Co wagons were often seen in B&ER territory, -- so that's a nice cheer up as well.

Edited June 14 by Annie
Further information

[Miss Prism]

Broad gauge??

 

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Broad gauge??

The photo was on the Broad Gauge Society website in a collection of other Broad Gauge locomotives so I assumed it must be.  But now that you mention it I do find myself wondering if it ended up in the collection by mistake and it really is a narrow gauge engine.

[MikeOxon]

6 minutes ago, Annie said:

The photo was on the Broad Gauge Society website in a collection of other Broad Gauge locomotives so I assumed it must be.  But now that you mention it I do find myself wondering if it ended up in the collection by mistake and it really is a narrow gauge engine.

 

This photograph appeared in 'Broadsheet' No.52, (Autumn 2004) in an article about broad gauge cattle wagons.  In fact, this is one of the references that I used when designing wagons for my model cattle train. 

 

According to the caption under the photo : "The main subject of the photograph is the ex-Cornwall Mineral Railway saddle tank number 1400 (number 1398 from December 1912) shown as originally rebuilt with saddle tanks circa 1884. Since the locomotive is obviously not ex-works one must surmise that the photograph might be dated around 1888 to 1890. Note the ‘dumb buffers’, used for shunting both narrow and broad gauge stock"

 

The Cornish Minerals railway was not a broad gauge line so this engine is, indeed, a narrow (standard) gauge engine but was used for shunting broad gauge wagons on mixed-gauge track.

 

Mike

[Annie]

24 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

According to the caption under the photo : "The main subject of the photograph is the ex-Cornwall Mineral Railway saddle tank number 1400 (number 1398 from December 1912) shown as originally rebuilt with saddle tanks circa 1884. Since the locomotive is obviously not ex-works one must surmise that the photograph might be dated around 1888 to 1890. Note the ‘dumb buffers’, used for shunting both narrow and broad gauge stock"

Ah, - thank you Mike.  I was almost wondering if it was an ex-Cornwall Minerals engine, but the number wasn't right and having not seen one in 19th century condition I couldn't quite figure out what it was.  Then of course there were the wide dumb buffers for bunting around wagons on mixed gauge track.

I still like it though, - I have a big soft spot for saddle tanks and shunting engines in general.

 

The cattle wagons are definitely of interest though.

[Annie]

Evening Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture:  Now this definitely is a Broad Gauge locomotive even if it is one of Dean's convertible '3001' class singles.  The carriages are all convertible ones as well to make a matching set.  I know I've seen express in full flight snaps taken at this location before as I recognise the signal box.  Anyone know whereabouts this is?

 

[Northroader]

I think it’s Worle, where the Weston super Mud loop branches off, and only the standard gauge going there. The fireman’s a bit of a poser. Third coach, some kind of saloon?

[MikeOxon]

On 13/06/2024 at 07:17, Compound2632 said:

'What big wheels you've got...'

 

(Well, yes, I know they're 7 ft so nothing special but most 7 ft-ers of the time had the decency to wear skirts down to crank level at least.)

Seeing Annie's latest 'cheer up picture' of a Dean Single in broad gauge form is a reminder that a tarty youth can turn into an elegant princess:

 

 

 

[Annie]

My daughter is still not very well and I've been struggling a bit with the effects of LongCOVID so not much has been done on my Trainz projects.  This afternoon though I was able to find the energy to carry on with some of the overhaul work I've been doing in Tristyn in Winter.  Rathtyen is still a huge half finished mess project so I thought I'd do some of the fixes that needed doing around Tristyn Junction since most of what is needed there is a collection of minor tasks rather than rebuilding an entire large town as I'm doing with Rathtyen.

Most of it was fixing up fences and walls as well as removing inexplicable untidy clutter from around some of the industries.  Some layout creators might like the industries and factory sites they create to look like an abandoned disaster area, but I don't like that kind of thing one bit.  The station itself was basically alright apart from some of the buildings being a bit haphazard in their placement.  The footbridges are very old models from Trainz 1.3 days so they are going to be replaced using Steve Flanders's GWR footbridge kit of parts.  The footbridges look nice when they are done, but it takes a bit of holding your mouth right to get them assembled so I'll leave those for when I've got a few more spoons in my pocket.

 

[Annie]

Latest versions of an ex-SDR open wagon and the Sully PO wagon from Steve Flanders.

 

[Annie]

And back to working on 'Tristyn in Winter'.  I find it's a good cheer up for me to work on Tristyn in Winter when I'm feeling not so well.  It's completely freelance and somewhat implausibly pretending to be somewhere in South Wales, - and originally quite a bit of it had some very strange building and railway infrastructure choices for the 1930s GWR,  - but I'm steadily working on fixing all that.

 

The station at Tristyn with its four platforms is reasonably presentable now.  I had to do much messing about with platform seats and as well as rescuing Trainz people who had got themselves stuck in things.  The station could do with a lot more seating than it has, but that might be a job for another day.  I could only find one member of staff and they were over on platform 3 having a good chinwag with a couple of intending passengers so I'll have find where the rest of them went and get them back to work.

 

This morning I set to and demolished a horrible looking modern factory that I doubt was even British and replaced it with something that was a bit more plausible for the 1930s.  I'm going to have to sort out some of the other factories/industries at Tristyn and I would like to make at least one of them properly rail served instead of just being a decorative background scenic lump.

 

 

The struggle to find a proper GWR signal box worthy of the name has been somewhat of a trial.  At present I'm using a signal box that Steve Flanders modelled on the one at Burton on the Water.   The Burton-on-the-Water signal box has an internal staircase and considering that Steve made it all of ten years ago it still looks fine  compared with more recent offerings.

I did find another signal box modelled on the one at Toddington, but even though in many ways it's a very nice model the chap who made it was more used to making German railway models and he got the brick and paintwork colours all wrong.  I've found a couple of drawings for timber GWR signal boxes and once I'm feeling a bit more lively I'd like to have a go at doing some 3D modelling to see if I can improve the GWR signal box situation.

 

[Annie]

Tristyn Junction as at close of play today.  Tristyn now has a proper goods shed instead of something stuck on as an afterthought on the side of one of the station platform bays.  The rancid green factory has gone and has been replaced with a row of sooty brick warehouses which to my mind is a big improvement.  Across the road from the warehouses is a mad jumble of plonk down buildings that needs to be sorted out.  Fortunately the town at Tristyn Junction isn't very large so I should be able to knock it into shape during tomorrow's Tristyn rebuilding session.

The enormous factory I put together yesterday really needs its own sidings so I'm going to have to give that some thought.  I have no idea what it makes,  Mysterious things packed into crates I suppose.  The level crossings should really be sorted out with a more prototypical solution.  Control systems have been made for Trainz that can cope with unusual level crossing and track formations, but they use diabolical complicated scripting and mysterious parts that I can't figure out.  Since I don't have animated traffic on Tristyn in Winter I could simply replace the animated gates with static ones that are closed to vehicle traffic which is how it should be anyway during the 1930s.

 

[Edwardian]

On 14/06/2024 at 08:13, Annie said:

Evening Broad Gauge Cheer Up Picture: (Courtesy of the Broad Gauge Society)  I particularly like the smaller types of engines that work away in the background while the great expresses go thundering about.  I know nothing at all about No.1400, - except that I like it a lot.  An addition bonus is the cattle vans in the background since they seem to have hardly been ever photographed.

 

 

EDIT: I've discovered that BGS Broadsheet No.38 on Pg 9 has an article on PO Wagons.  'Development and use of private wagons by many companies; Sully & Co, J C Hunt, China clay, Hennet; and builders.'  And as a further bonus it seems that Sully & Co wagons were often seen in B&ER territory, -- so that's a nice cheer up as well.

 

These:

 

 

Built by Sharp Stewart and intended to run in pairs, back to back.

 

When the GWR took over the Cornwall Minerals, it retained half of them and rebuilt them as per your picture. The reason 1400 looks quite like a 1361 Class, is because the GWR derived its 1361 Class design from these rebuilds.

 

 

The other half of the class were sold off, most ending up on the L&FR/E&MR/M&GN. Some ran as conventional tanks......

 

 

Some went back to Sharps to have Sharp 4-wheel tenders fitted for them...

 

 

Some were subsequently rebuilt at Melton Constable without the side tanks.

 

Eventually, what little was left of them were notionally rebuilt by the MGN as these...

 

(LNER types insit on calling these 'J93s' I believe)

 

 

Two sx-CMRs are intended for the WNR!

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Some went back to Sharps to have Sharp 4-wheel tenders fitted for them...

 

Not to mention being turned into the dinkiest 2-4-0s imaginable!

[Annie]

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Built by Sharp Stewart and intended to run in pairs, back to back.

 

When the GWR took over the Cornwall Minerals, it retained half of them and rebuilt them as per your picture. The reason 1400 looks quite like a 1361 Class, is because the GWR derived its 1361 Class design from these rebuilds.

 

Thank you James.  Somehow the switch contacts failed to throw over in my brain when I read the words 'Cornwall Minerals'.  These engines had been much discussed on your own Castle Aching topic as well as elsewhere on the forum.  I must be getting old and doddery and losing my wits not to realise what I was looking at.

[Edwardian]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not to mention being turned into the dinkiest 2-4-0s imaginable!

 

Well, yes...

 

 

The WNR must somehow have one!!!

 

29 minutes ago, Annie said:

Thank you James.  Somehow the switch contacts failed to throw over in my brain when I read the words 'Cornwall Minerals'.  These engines had been much discussed on your own Castle Aching topic as well as elsewhere on the forum.  I must be getting old and doddery and losing my wits not to realise what I was looking at.

 

You're still better than I am! I am functionally witless these days, I'm sure!

[Johnson044]

On 18/06/2024 at 12:29, Edwardian said:

 

Well, yes...

 

 

The WNR must somehow have one!!!

 

 

You're still better than I am! I am functionally witless these days, I'm sure!

Absolute Cutie!

[Edwardian]

21 hours ago, Johnson044 said:

Absolute Cutie!

 

Has been modelled in S Scale. 4mm to OO gauge might be a bit of a push, but I have a plan and I shall try!

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

, but I have a plan and I shall try!

A cunning one, I hope! 😄

 

Jim

[Annie]

My daughter seems to have turned a corner and has been a lot more well these past few days.  As for me I largely crashed out and slept for hours and hours once the pressure of being on duty and caring for her has largely lifted of my shoulders.  Finding myself at a loose end I decided that i was going to play trains.  After a long break away from running anything on Tristyn in Winter I decided that I was going to run the local passenger schedule, - which is something I've not done for months.

 

 'Earl of Berkeley' takes a 'B' set and a 4 wheel Siphon as its train from Gwladys Ddu and heads off in an easterly direction around most of the stations on the mainline and some on the secondary line as well.  'Tristyn in Winter' is essentially an enormous continuous oval which enables the trusty Dukedog to arrive back at Gwladys Ddu about an hour and a half after it set out.  I have yet to set up the passenger service in the westerly direction from Gwladys Ddu, but hopefully I might get a chance to do that during the weekend.

'Earl of Berkeley' is a clever old thing because as it comes to a halt at Branwyn Station it sets off a trigger to start the schedules for the pair of 48xx's waiting at the east and west bay platforms, - which will send them off with their motor trailers down the branch lines west to Gwenadwy and east to the other branch which I've gone and forgotten the name of  Melangell.

At Secombe station the Dukedog triggers another 48xx and motor trailer which will send it off down the Seisyll branch calling in at various minor stopping places on a circular route which also takes in Gwenadwy returning to Seacombe.  Once the Dukedog and the 48xx's are set in motion they will continue to run their scheduled timetable automatically without further intervention, but with the whole cycle taking around an hour and a half I've not run it much past three hours.

 

Leaving Gwladys Ddu

 

Approaching Tristyn Junction.

 

 

On the secondary bypass line to Rathtyen.

Edited June 21 by Annie
faulty remembering

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

A cunning one, I hope! 😄

 

Jim

 

So cunning you could clean your teeth with it