Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Hroth]

39 minutes ago, Annie said:

Playing trains Important and serious testing at Minories.

 

 

 

 

 

Serious testing is Important, give that Armstrong some wellie!!!

 

Apart from anything else, its a pity that it's never been produced as an RTR OO gauge model, it'd be more useful than the Hornby 101 and a Jinty chassis could have been put under it without too many blushes...

 

[Annie]

8 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Serious testing is Important, give that Armstrong some wellie!!!

 

Apart from anything else, its a pity that it's never been produced as an RTR OO gauge model, it'd be more useful than the Hornby 101 and a Jinty chassis could have been put under it without too many blushes...

 

Considering that some of them were given cabs and worked outside of London makes them waaaaay more useful than the strange little 101 which was a singleton experimental locomotive and generally a bit of an orphan.

 

Most of what I'll be doing is testing out the engine spec and how well the locomotive performs with a train coupled behind it.  It's certainly fine with threading 112 tons over the pointwork in the station throat at Minories, though to give it a decent run I'll take it over to 'Tristyn in Winter' and see how it gets on there.

[Hroth]

Working Minories, shouldn't 633 have condenser pipes?  On 'Tristyn in Winter', pipeless should be fine!

 

[Annie]

40 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Working Minories, shouldn't 633 have condenser pipes?  On 'Tristyn in Winter', pipeless should be fine!

 

633 has condenser pipes.  Steve Flanders is going to be doing some non condensing versions as well.

 

[Hroth]

So it does! They were well camoflaged!

 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

633 has condenser pipes.  Steve Flanders is going to be doing some non condensing versions as well.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

So it does! They were well camoflaged!

 

 

It was GWR practice to paint pipes etc to match the boiler and smoke box. See also treatment of the inherited Terriers in that regard!

 

My concern is more the Churchward era lettering and black frames on the (rather nice) Wolverhampton livery. 

 

[Annie]

6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

My concern is more the Churchward era lettering and black frames on the (rather nice) Wolverhampton livery. 

The engine I've been given James is very much an early beta model with incomplete WIP texture work.  At this point of things I've been asked to drive No. 633 about all over the place to see if it works as it should as the engine spec is one that's new and untried since no-one has built a class 633 for Trainz before.

I have passed on your very nice picture to Steve as a helpful reference, but if anyone else has pictures or information about the Wolverhampton livery as applied to the 633 class we would be very grateful if you could share it with us.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Annie
More words needed.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

The engine I've been given James is very much an early beta model with incomplete WIP texture work.  At this point of things I've been asked to drive No. 633 about all over the place to see if it works as it should as the engine spec is one that's new and untried since no-one has built a class 633 for Trainz before.

I have passed on your very nice picture to Steve as a helpful reference, but if anyone else has pictures or information about the Wolverhampton livery as applied to the 633 class we would be very grateful if you could share it with us.

 

The 633s were built in 1871-2, so would have first appeared in the earlier Wolverhampton livery mentioned in the first excerpt below and as built appear to have been cabless.

 

Apparently the condensing engines remained cabless until withdrawal. The first locos were fitted with B4 boilers in 1916, so there should be no belpaire firebox with an early livery, certainly not one probably extinct by 1900, and I 'd suggest that you're probably in unlined post 1906 green with "GREAT WESTERN" on the tanks for that. 

 

Non-condensers seem to have received half-cabs* at some point, by 1900, while later several received enlarged bunkers and 3 had enclosed cabs. The original bunkers seem to have had flaring, not coal rails. 

 

And I quote....

 

HMRS Livery Register (1967):

 

Wolverhampton Styles

 

Locomotives of the West Midland Railway were painted a decidedly blue shade of green - a colour which traditionally became associated with Wolverhampton....

 

From 1866 a dark green, probably similar to the West Midland shade was used and boiler bands were black edged with white in the Swindon style. Similar lining was applied to tenders and tanks but the black border was separated from the green by a heavy white line. Outside frames were Windsor brown, a shade that shewed a purple tint in some lights, and were lined in vermilion. The splashers followed the colour and lining of the frames and the wheels were green lined with white at the centre. It is reported that coupling rods were "lined black and white" - if so they may have been green like the wheels; no confirmation of this has been found. [Source: From the notes and paintings of the late H M Le Fleming]

 

In 1883 the green became a deep blue-green while the panelling was formed by white-edged black borders of a simpler style than hitherto. Tenders and tanks had two panels where Swindon favoured three and later, one. Wheels were brown to match the frames.

 

Swindon livery was officially adopted for Wolverhampton re-paints from 1894 but it is possible that engines continued to be turned out for some time afterwards in the fashion outlined above. 

 

RCTS The Locomotives of the Great Western Railway, Part 1 (1951):

 

About 1880 .... what became for the next fifteen years, the characteristic Wolverhampton style: Blue-green with black boiler bands, borders and panelling picked out in white (which, however, assumed a cream shade with heavy varnishing). Outside frames were brown, edged vermilion. Wheel bosses, however, when exposed to view, were bordered with a black ring, having a red line round each edge.... 

 

In 1894, however, Wolverhampton abandoned its independent livery and adopted the Swindon style then coming into use. It appears that the first Wolverhampton engines turned out in this style were the 0-4-2 tank engines, Nos. 3571-3580 [Note: the first of which was built in May 1895]. However the Wolverhampton livery was still to be seen as late as 1900.

 

 

* or backless cabs, but saying "half cabs" is more annoying for the Midland reader. Anything to oblige, me.

[Annie]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

The 633s were built in 1871-2, so would have first appeared in the earlier Wolverhampton livery mentioned in the first excerpt below and as built appear to have been cabless.

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to find these references James.  I've passed them onto Steve Flanders.

[rocor]

On 04/05/2023 at 10:51, Edwardian said:

 

 

It was GWR practice to paint pipes etc to match the boiler and smoke box. See also treatment of the inherited Terriers in that regard!

 

My concern is more the Churchward era lettering and black frames on the (rather nice) Wolverhampton livery. 

 

 

That is a lovely little model, do you have any details regarding it?

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, rocor said:

 

That is a lovely little model, do you have any details regarding it?

 

 

No. One of three 517s on display at a model railway exhibition at the the Swindon museum in 2014.  The other two, with straight-back Swindon bunkers, were in carriage liveries for auto-working:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

No. One of three 517s on display at a model railway exhibition at the the Swindon museum in 2014.  The other two, with straight-back Swindon bunkers, were in carriage liveries for auto-working:

Now those are just lovely.  I would imagine with the Wolverhampton liveried example being in the Swindon museum that would indicate that its paintwork is accurate.

 

Steve was very pleased to receive the information you put together James and he's presently working on finalising details.  The present plan seems to be for a late Wolverhampton liveried engine and two in Swindon paintwork, - one of them being without condensing pipework.

[MikeOxon]

On 04/05/2023 at 10:51, Edwardian said:

 

 

 

I've always been rather sceptical about the colour in that photo of the model at Swindon.  I feel that the whole photo has a blue cast - see the (presumably) white box in the right background.  If that is corrected in Photoshop the result looks like this:

 which I feel is a more plausible blue-green shade.

 

Mike

 

[magmouse]

Mike - I agree with you that the first picture in your post is too blue, but the problem I think is there is a mix of light sources. The light from the right is quite blue - possibly daylight through windows/doors, but there is also a warmer colour of light from above, perhaps from fluorescent tubes or tungsten lamps. It is very difficult to correct for a mix of light sources like this, and as a result your adjusted version has a range of colours - compare the sides of the tanks with the top of the boiler, for example.

 

What we really need is a photo of the model in controlled lighting conditions! Although of course that still begs the question of whether the model is accurate...

 

Nick.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

I've always been rather sceptical about the colour in that photo of the model at Swindon.  I feel that the whole photo has a blue cast - see the (presumably) white box in the right background.  If that is corrected in Photoshop the result looks like this:

 

I've just heard of this amazing railway where they painted all their engines black......

 

 

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

which I feel is a more plausible blue-green shade.

Seriously though I do take your point Mike that the original photo does look to have too much of a blue cast.

 

Last time when Steve was trying to find the right shade for his Wolverhampton liveried Armstrong Goods we used the images on this webpage as a guide.  https://www.leemarshmodelco.com/products/gwr-850-class-saddle-tank

[MikeOxon]

35 minutes ago, Annie said:

've just heard of this amazing railway where they painted all their engines black..

That's no ordinary black, that's Blackberry Black :)

 

I've just noticed, as one of those cheapskates who leaves the ads on, that your post is bordered by an array of shots of young ladies in lingerie!  Perhaps there are advantages to not paying £12 per year 🙂

Edited May 5, 2023 by MikeOxon

[Annie]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

I've just noticed, as one of those cheapskates who leaves the ads on, that your post is bordered by an array of shots of young ladies in lingerie!  Perhaps there are advantages to not paying £12 per year 🙂

So what are they selling, - the lingerie, the young ladies or both?  With the state the world is in you can never be quite certain these days.  In my opinion the inventors of add block software should be knighted for services to humanity.

 

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

That's no ordinary black, that's Blackberry Black :)

It most certainly is and you know you've got it right when it looks like you could fall into it and never be seen again.

[MikeOxon]

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

In my opinion the inventors of add block software should be knighted for services to humanity.

I agree and I was most put out when this site suddenly refused to let me load it until I by-passed 'AdBlock'.  I nearly quit in irritation, since I naively believed I was contributing quite a lot,through my various 'how to' posts.  Nowadays, though, everything has to be 'monetised'

 

What did I say? - the lingerie is getting raunchier - I think they've noticed that I noticed 🙂  It says 'next day delivery' but I bet you won't get that in NZ!

 

 

[Mikkel]

Mike, let me distract you with another 517 in brown livery. Here is Tony Reynalds' model of No. 1157 in the late John Dornom's superb roundhouse: https://www.masterpiecemodels.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/217-john-dornom-1950-2022

[Annie]

No.633 under test on 'Tristyn in Winter'.  131 tons on the drawbar and this little engine can steam for Britain.  A through pleasure to drive using the steam controls.  The engine spec's creator was worried about whether he'd got all the clever magic figuring right or not, but I can honestly say that he's done a good job.

 

[Annie]

Picture borrowed from Martin's Nether Madder and Green Soudley thread.

 

And......   All horribly tempting n'est-ce pas?  I can scent another loco commision happening soon, - but is the old C.J.F. drawing the only one available or does anyone know of another one.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Annie
More words needed.

[magmouse]

41 minutes ago, Annie said:

All horribly tempting n'est-ce pas?

Not at all, Annie, no, no, no. All together, everyone - fingers in ears and go “La, la, la” as loud as you can.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/301/7l06-gwr-0-4-4t-nos-34-35/
 

Luckily is says “not available yet, do not order”. Phew. The 4mm version, on the other hand…

 

Nick.

[Annie]

22 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Not at all, Annie, no, no, no. All together, everyone - fingers in ears and go “La, la, la” as loud as you can.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/301/7l06-gwr-0-4-4t-nos-34-35/
 

Luckily is says “not available yet, do not order”. Phew. The 4mm version, on the other hand…

 

Nick.

Once upon a time I would have been tempted by the 7mm version Nick, but my fine metalworking days are well and truly over (sigh).

[magmouse]

It is a delightfully quirky locomotive. I have to resist as I have several locos to build before I can do something as whimsical as number 34. Maybe one day…

 

Having one to run on your virtual layouts would be great, so if you are able to make that happen, we will all be cheering you on!

 

Nick.

[Mikkel]

No. 34 was a regular Farthing loco for a while, built by the late Dave Perkins from the ex-Albion now Roxey Mouldings kit. He had somehow managed to get a very smooth and well-running mechanism - not straightforward with that wheel arrangement on a smallish loco. It now runs on someone's else layout.

 

 

See also: http://www.gwr.org.uk/galperkins1.html