Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

 

Good, woody sort of word (from 5'55")

Yes it makes me very happy that there's a word like Stogumber in the English language.

[Annie]

On 09/03/2023 at 10:45, eheaps said:

Latest 3D loco model that might be of interest here. This variant is nearly done, but there's lots to add to represent as built locos, District line examples, etc.

 

Latest news from Ed Heaps.

 

Quote

There will be four major Met variants: an as built version with open cab and original Beyer Peacock boiler (dome on first ring, salter valves), a version with open cab and the Hanbury style boiler (dome on second ring, salter valves), a version with open cab and the Clarke style boiler (dome on second ring, lockup valves), and a version with Clarke boiler and a cab. These variants should also cover most of the locos that were sold by the Met and the as built version will cover lots of the railways that bought them other than the Met. I also want to do the rebuilt District version which will need a few extra parts making. Other railway rebuilds (Midland, LNWR, LSWR etc.) might be possible but will need more substantial modifications from the base Met version.

 

[Annie]

This afternoon I moved my old 3ft gauge Sumwheir District Railway layout over from TS2012 to TANE.  It must be at least two years since I last even looked at this layout though at one time it was very much my pride and joy.  It needs a bit of a tidy up though it all seems to be in a functional condition.

 

I took a couple of snaps at Friars Stumble once I had everything loaded in and sorted out.  This layout was one of my first attempts at building up a properly sceniced 'somewhere in England' layout since I'd been messing around with a NZGR layout before this one.

 

 

The locomotive is an 2-6-4T colonial export Beyer-Peacock and the coaches are from the Clogher Valley Railway.  Back in 2014 Steve Flanders made a considerable amount of 3ft gauge Irish models and they were what I mostly used on the S.D.R.  It's just a question now of remembering which ones I used.

 

[sir douglas]

cracking looking Malta Beyer Peacock

[Annie]

I've found the three Tralee & Dingle coaches that I'd used previously on the S.D.R.  Steve Flanders only made a 3rd, composite and brake 3rd coaches as well as the small inspection railcar for the T&D which is a pity really since I've got a definite soft spot for the T&D.

I also rediscovered how to fit the Beyer-Peacock's headlamp since it's a while since I last did it.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

cracking looking Malta Beyer Peacock

Thanks, - I've also got a Malta Manning Wardle 2-6-4T, - I just need to find where I carefully archived it away.

[Edwardian]

13 hours ago, Annie said:

This afternoon I moved my old 3ft gauge Sumwheir District Railway layout over from TS2012 to TANE.  It must be at least two years since I last even looked at this layout though at one time it was very much my pride and joy.  It needs a bit of a tidy up though it all seems to be in a functional condition.

 

I took a couple of snaps at Friars Stumble once I had everything loaded in and sorted out.  This layout was one of my first attempts at building up a properly sceniced 'somewhere in England' layout since I'd been messing around with a NZGR layout before this one.

 

 

The locomotive is an 2-6-4T colonial export Beyer-Peacock and the coaches are from the Clogher Valley Railway.  Back in 2014 Steve Flanders made a considerable amount of 3ft gauge Irish models and they were what I mostly used on the S.D.R.  It's just a question now of remembering which ones I used.

 

 

I have missed this, such an utterly charming layout

[Annie]

19 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I have missed this, such an utterly charming layout

Thank you James.  It's a pity that I went and forgot about it for so long.  Moving it into TANE will make it a lot easier to give it a tidy up and get it looking nice again.

[Annie]

Latest news from Ed Heaps.  District version.

 

 

Version with cab.

 

[Annie]

I really don't know anything more about this pair apart from them being Manning-Wardle 0-6-4 well tank locomotives that were plainly intended for a tropical destination.  I've used the well worn story of a cancelled overseas order to explain how Nos. 5 & 6 ended up on the Sumwheir District Railway.

Their wheels are set to 3ft 6in gauge which isn't all that noticeable.  Unfortunately Paul of Paulz Trainz couldn't find the 3ft gauge wheels he had originally made for them as many parts for his older models were lost in a hard drive failure.  

Despite their unusual appearance they are a useful pair of engines and do good work on the S.D.R.

 

 

I don't know what railway or tramway No.3 was originally built for, but it's always been a firm favourite of mine.  It's a 3ft gauge Manning Wardle 0-4-2T Tram engine and it's almost as wide as some standard gauge engines which has limited its usefulness on the S.D.R. somewhat.  It mostly works around the various warehouse sidings and factories at Bishops Tenpenny and on the branch out to Tenpenny Wharf.  (The alert among you will have realised by now that I 'borrowed' the entire Tenpenny Wharf section and converted it to standard gauge for use on my Norfolk layout.)

 

 

A snap I took of the cathedral at Bishops Tenpenny looking across the station yard while I was lurking about by the engine shed.  The town at Bishops Tenpenny is only about one third done with a lot more still to do yet.  I'm not very good at doing towns so it might take awhile for me to get it done.  😟

 

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Annie said:

I really don't know anything more about this pair apart from them being Manning-Wardle 0-6-4 well tank locomotives that were plainly intended for a tropical destination. 

 

Ah, Ireland of course.

[Northroader]

The Aussies had some, too:

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Northroader said:

The Aussies had some, too:

 

Their engineer evidently took one look at what BP had sent, said to himself "What the [characteristic Aussie expletive] is that?" and set about turning them into something that looked like a proper railway engine!

[Edwardian]

What so we reckon was the w/b and simeter of the coupled wheels on these BP 4-4-0Ts?

 

One is put in mind of the Hudswell Clarke '7 Sisters' of the Yarmouth & North Norfok Ry and the Lynn & Fakenham Ry.

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

What so we reckon was the w/b and simeter of the coupled wheels on these BP 4-4-0Ts?

 

One is put in mind of the Hudswell Clarke '7 Sisters' of the Yarmouth & North Norfok Ry and the Lynn & Fakenham Ry.

 

There was at one time a website with listings of BP locomotives organised in various ways. I can't find it now but I attach the version by wheel arrangement, which I downloaded.

 

One 5' 3" gauge engine went to the Victorian Government Railways in 1878 and four the following year to South Australia, then six standard gauge engines to NSW in 1880. They are, thus, contemporary with the Lynn & Fakenham engines but as I know you know those were built by Hudswell Clarke.

 

 

 

Beyer Peacock wheelslist.PDF

[Metropolitan H]

The Hudswell Clarke '7 Sisters' - aka "Gentleman's Light Sporting locomotives" - that were inherited "Muddle & Go Nowhere" were much smaller locomotives than the 4-4-0Ts built by BP for the Metropolitan and other railways.

 

"Gentleman's Light Sporting locomotives" (from drawing by Deryck Featherstone in MRC Annual 1982)

- Over buffers - 28ft

- Wheelbase - 4ft 10in + 5ft 10.5in + 6ft 9in

- Driving wheel diam. - 4ft 7.5in

- Bogie wheel diam. - 2ft 9in

 

"Met. Railway "A" class" (from Diagram 51 in the Met. Railway rolling stock diagram book, compiled for the transfer to LT in 1933)

- Over buffers - 33ft 1in

- Wheelbase - 4ft 0in + 7ft 11in + 8ft 10in

- Driving wheel diam. - 5ft 9in

- Bogie wheel diam. - 2ft 11.875in

 

The Met. locos "Running weight" was 45 tons - so quite a bruiser compared with the dainty HC "7 Sisters"!

 

Regards

Chris H

[Edwardian]

For OO modellers, the Bachmann HO 'Richmond' 4-4-0 chassis has coupled wheels that scale, I believe, at 4/6" in 4mm scale. A nice basis for a freelance 4-4-0T perhaps. 

[sir douglas]

the No5 is one ive never seen before and (to my opinion) doesnt look any thing like a Manning Wardle, while the No3 could be based on the 2' gauge Howrah Amta Rly in india (MW 1826 of 1913)

[wagonman]

On 08/03/2023 at 07:44, Hroth said:

 

Oi Bert! Stick her in reverse!  They've given us the wrong tablet again!!!

 

Ok, I realise that with a properly operated Tablet machine, it's highly unlikely for it to happen. But still...

 

 

Reminds me of a tale my father (RAF Bomber Command 1941-3) told me of a Bomb Aimer: "left, left, steady, oops back a bit"

 

 

[Annie]

1 hour ago, sir douglas said:

the No5 is one ive never seen before and (to my opinion) doesnt look any thing like a Manning Wardle, while the No3 could be based on the 2' gauge Howrah Amta Rly in india (MW 1826 of 1913)

Thanks for identifying the origins of the Manning-Wardle tram engine.  As for the other two engines of doubtful origins (Nos. 5 & 6) I'm going to put them back into my digital trainset box since I haven't got the correct 3ft gauge wheelsets for them.  I think I'd be much better off sorting out another Malta Beyer-Peacock 2-6-4T for the line.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Annie
Um.........

[Annie]

All manner of fix up jobs were done at Friars Stumble this afternoon.  Overall I didn't do too bad a job with it when I built it up in TS2012 all of five years ago, but there were all kinds of things I didn't know how to do back then with laying trackwork and smoothing out the landscape properly.

 

 

S.D.R. No.7 has been in the works and fettled a bit and is now running a lot better.  Another 'Malta' Beyer-Peacock is going to join No.7 and that should take care of the motive power needs on this section.

 

 

[Annie]

 

Book Corner:

 

It's been awhile since I did a 'Book Corner' here in my little thread.  But what a business getting my hands on this book.  Last year I saw it advertised on a bookseller's website here in NZ for pre-order so I ordered a copy.  During November they contacted me to say, sorry, but they'd forgotten about my order and did I still want it.  I informed them politely that yes, I most certainly did want it, - and then I waited, and waited... and waited.

And finally it has arrived!

 

 

Mr Densham was born in Suffolk and is a keen amateur engineer much involved with the Southwold Railway Trust.  He's an architectural draughtsman by profession so some of the drawings in the book are his own work and very nice they are too.  He does a nice job of writing in an interesting and engaging way as well.

Being a history of East Anglian Railways it starts right from the pre-railway era which is a fascinating chapter all of its own and carries on through to the checked history of the early railways with much skullduggery and double dealing before reaching the two chapters covering the G.E.R. and the M.&G.N.J.R.  After that there is the necessary, but unfortunate mention of the LNER and then the Nationalisation era; - a modern error chapter follows after that with far too many pictures of diesels; - then a delightful chapter dealing with the independent lines and light railways which I think should have have run to a lot more pages.  The final chapter in the book deals with the preservation era as you might expect.

 

 

[Annie]

A request for assistance from Steve Flanders.  Any help and advice you could offer would be gratefully received.

 

Hi Annie,

I was wondering if you could help me with a couple of aspects of my new
model, the 633 class Metro tank of 1871?

As it was a condensing loco I'm not sure what quantity of smoke, if any,
it emitted. Do you think your contacts would be able to suggest something?

I know that the locos were meant to consume their own smoke but the
accounts I've read are not very explicit except by saying that there was
some. I don't want to just put in the usual amount. I was going to keep
the steam emissions the same as my other locos.

Also, as they were all built in Wolverhampton, did they have the
standard livery or the Wolverhampton version, or both? I'm still quite a
way from getting it even ready for the livery etc but I'd like to get
this sorted.

I'm aiming to make two versions, with and without condensing gear. The
latter seem to have been mainly based in south Wales, although I did
find a mention of a couple rostered at Southall so they would be fine
with the conventional GWR livery. A condensing loco in the Wolverhampton
livery might be good to have though ...

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Annie
More words needed.

[Compound2632]

How much smoke (particulates resulting from incomplete combustion) would be carried over into the tanks with the steam? 

 

A point to consider is that an engine fitted with condensing gear would only be operated in condensing mode when in the tunnels, so for surface running, the exhaust would, I think, be no different from that of any other engine. 

 

i suppose the virtual model will have a virtual lever to switch between condensing and non-condensing operation.

[Annie]

53 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

How much smoke (particulates resulting from incomplete combustion) would be carried over into the tanks with the steam? 

 

A point to consider is that an engine fitted with condensing gear would only be operated in condensing mode when in the tunnels, so for surface running, the exhaust would, I think, be no different from that of any other engine. 

 

i suppose the virtual model will have a virtual lever to switch between condensing and non-condensing operation.

I'm not sure about that Stephen.  To effect a change over like that would need a script of some kind on the engine and I'm not sure if that's possible in Trainz.  However there is already a script on tunnel tracks which turns off smoke due to there being no collision surface on tunnel walls.  Without that script smoke would be seen blasting out of the scenery whenever a steam engine enters a tunnel.

I know with Ed Heaps's GER Holden C32 engines there's no smoke difference if they have condensing gear fitted so perhaps I should point that out to Steve.

[eheaps]

There shouldn't be any smoke going to the tanks as the valve that diverts the exhaust steam is before the steam is mixed with the smoke (see bottom right image). Some locos also had chimney dampers to prevent airflow out of the chimney when in condensing mode (ie there would be no exhaust at all) but I think this was unusual and most locos would always emit smoke but only emit steam when not condensing.

My general thought is that condensing locos in trainz should just have regular smoke because (as previously pointed out) the condensing was only used in tunnels and a properly set up tunnel in trainz prevents smoke emission anyway...