Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Looking North

[JCL]

For prototyping I use mountboard for the stiff coach structure, and thick card from Staples (a little thinner than greetings card) for forming the tumblehomes, beading, etc (like you). Once I am happy with my drawings, I do the following:

• 1.5mm MDF for the base of the vehicle (also the right thickness for 4mm scale buildings made of brick)
• 1mm MDF for the rest of the coach structure - inner sides, ends, partitions, underneath equipment
• Oiled board for the outer sides that include the tumblehomes.
• Seat back and cushions for the Barnums are in 1mm MDF with oiled board ends, for the GNR coaches have been made entirely of greetings card thickness card because I want to be sure I can engrave fold lines. Because the seats are left-right symmetrical, I can engrave all the folds I need on one side, then turn the piece over, fit it back into the hole it left, and then engrave the reverse folds. 

I smear fragile parts such as the v-hangers with glue to stiffen them up.

 

I've bought 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm MDF from 4D, the darker stuff seems to be better to me than the lighter coloured sheets. I can tell you that when I'm putting it on the bags ready for the flight home it soon starts to get heavy. I haven't used he 2mm yet, maybe it will be useful for 7mm scale coaches bases.

 

I've found that tabs are definitely the way to go, and the tighter the better (within reason obviously, you want to be able to tab and slot together without crushing the parts). The width of the laser makes a difference to the width of a slot. For example, if I want to put a tab from 1mm thick material into a slot in another piece of material, I make the slot .95mm thick. This then takes into account the thickness of the laser beam, I also slightly under measure the length of the slot as well by the same amount.

 

If you think this is fun, you should try making some bogies. Thing is, it costs a fair bit for me to get stuff sent to me, and the exchange rate isn't favourable, so I try to make as much as I can instead of buying parts. For other people, making bogies out of card and mdf might be a no-go area, and I completely understand that.

 

Hope that helps, and that you don't mind a few more photos.

 

 

[Skinnylinny]

Making bogies, you say...?

 

I did draw up a flat-pack kit for an 8-foot Fox bogie, but decided that mount board wouldn't be strong enough, and also found that someone offered whitemetal cast ones with better rivet detail... although I can understand the trouble of getting things posted to Canada. 

 

That six-wheeler looks the bee's knees! Have you thought about how you're going to manage a chassis for it? I'm having trouble with mine just now... 

That's a very good point about the 1.5mm thich stuff being right for half-a-brick in 4mm scale. I've been trying to design a few buildings (basic designs only so far) and that will make my corners look much better. Thank you!

Edited June 20, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[JCL]

I've had a quick DM with Linny about doing these posts because I'm aware I'm taking over a little bit, but he's encouraged me to add a bit more, so this an edited version of the message I sent.

 

Here's a couple of photos that might help with the bogies.

 

Prototype model in mount board and card

 

A different way of doing the cylinder - paper rolled tightly around a coctail stick before being glued and then cut to length. Glued to brackets with the seam side facing the carriage floor.

 

Partially finished in MDF, the blurred one in the background shows the strengtheners.

 

Final version in MDF with brass top hat bearings to make sure that the thing rolls properly. These and the fact that everything is square means that it runs just as freely as an RTR coach.

 

Painted - I cheated on the roof and put a 3D printed one on there.

 

 

And here is an image of the parts that I drew. The fact that the parts are joined is a relic of my previous method of cutting them out of .010 styrene using a Silhouette cutter - I wouldn't do that now.

 

The stretcher running across the middle helps to keep everything strong. There's very little flex at all. If you want to see the coach, it's at Ingrow on the KWVR.

 

I will revisit this to finish off the springs once I've finished the Barnum.

 

 

Finally, a quick word about the last photo in my previous post. You'll see that the carriage doesn't sit properly on the surface. It wasn't until I'd finished it that I realised that the corners weren't at 90 degrees. This was a fault with the set up of the laser printer, so now I always check for square before I assemble anything.

 

cheers

 

Jason

Edited June 21, 2018 by JCL

[Skinnylinny]

An order for 1mm MDF has been placed, but while I wait for it to arrive I decided to have a go at some layout design (I know!)

I had a basic idea of how I wanted the boards to be assembled, and the final plan is to laser-cut the boards from 8mm MDF. So! Three 1/4 sized boards were drawn up to be produced in 2mm MDF. A track plan was drawn up and also printed out at 1/4 scale (thank you AnyRail for your "Export as PDF" function).

 

The results (minus any cutouts for wiring, which I'll add later):

 

 

 

and then the two end boards were added:

 

 

The two end boards will combine to form a nice solid box for transport, and the plan is to design the fourth (fiddle yard) board so that it can also form a box with the middle board. This ought to make transporting the layout easier as it would be nice to be able to exhibit it (if it reaches a standard where I'm happy with it).

 

 

[Skinnylinny]

Ahhhh, the sickening *crunch* of splintering wood... the bus driver this morning braked sharply and I tumbled forward holding the boards... all repaired now and glue drying on my workbench in the office...

[Marly51]

An order for 1mm MDF has been placed, but while I wait for it to arrive I decided to have a go at some layout design (I know!)

I had a basic idea of how I wanted the boards to be assembled, and the final plan is to laser-cut the boards from 8mm MDF. So! Three 1/4 sized boards were drawn up to be produced in 2mm MDF. A track plan was drawn up and also printed out at 1/4 scale (thank you AnyRail for your "Export as PDF" function).

 

The results (minus any cutouts for wiring, which I'll add later):

 

Baseboard 1.jpg

 

Baseboard 2.jpg

 

and then the two end boards were added:

 

Baseboard 3.jpg

 

The two end boards will combine to form a nice solid box for transport, and the plan is to design the fourth (fiddle yard) board so that it can also form a box with the middle board. This ought to make transporting the layout easier as it would be nice to be able to exhibit it (if it reaches a standard where I'm happy with it).

 

Baseboard 4.jpg

 

Very neat construction - I like it a lot!!

[RedGemAlchemist]

An order for 1mm MDF has been placed, but while I wait for it to arrive I decided to have a go at some layout design (I know!)

 

I had a basic idea of how I wanted the boards to be assembled, and the final plan is to laser-cut the boards from 8mm MDF. So! Three 1/4 sized boards were drawn up to be produced in 2mm MDF. A track plan was drawn up and also printed out at 1/4 scale (thank you AnyRail for your "Export as PDF" function).

 

The results (minus any cutouts for wiring, which I'll add later):

 

Baseboard 1.jpg

 

Baseboard 2.jpg

 

and then the two end boards were added:

 

Baseboard 3.jpg

 

The two end boards will combine to form a nice solid box for transport, and the plan is to design the fourth (fiddle yard) board so that it can also form a box with the middle board. This ought to make transporting the layout easier as it would be nice to be able to exhibit it (if it reaches a standard where I'm happy with it).

 

Baseboard 4.jpg

 

Clever! An excellent bit of engineering Linny!

[Skinnylinny]

Well, a very busy Wednesday meant nothing got done - a trip into deepest Northumberland for a funeral. However, yesterday I realised that if I were building this 1/4 scale model of my layout... I could use this to see if stock combinations would fit into platforms and to get a real feel for how cramped or otherwise things would feel. Fortunately, it just so happens that I have some 00 scale carriage CAD artwork which I scaled down and modified (mainly omitting any beading and drawing a quick, rudimentary chassis) to produce a set of Stroudley 4-wheelers and a 48' and 54' Billinton bogie coach.

 

 

 

What this has shown me is that a 6-coach set of Stroudleys will comfortably fit into the platforms at Linton, with the possibility of squeezing an 8-coach (mainline, not close-coupled suburban!) set in with careful positioning. However, I then left the coaches at the model railway club, but did manage to cut out some platforms too. I'll probably have a go at a representation of the bridges and retaining walls next. I'm rather enjoying this!

 

 

Meanwhile, at entirely the opposite end of the scale (!), work has finally started on painting the 5" gauge Worsdell E class. First stage: the boiler and firebox. After a scrub down to remove 30-odd years of ingrained dust, the first coat of Phoenix Precision NER Green has been applied to most of the boiler. The handrail has been removed from this side, partly to ease access for painting, but mostly because it had had a rather nasty bash, and been badly bent. A small area of unpainted firebox can be seen, showing the original colour in which I received the loco. Hardly the right shade!

 

Unfortunately even in pieces this model is rather too large to fit on my painting turntable, so I'm having to bodily pick the whole thing up to move it around for painting access. The loco has a few dings and dents from its life over the years, and I'm not going to try to do anything about most of them as they are part of the character of the model, although there are various parts which do need repairs (for example, one cab side sheet has come completely adrift). Here the boiler (and one of the front sandbox/splashers, which looks a lot rougher than it is due to fresh glossy paint!) is shown with a Bachmann class E1 (in later, LNER, guise), which shows not only the size, but the difference in colour. I was expecting apple green! Unfortunately, though, that lovely brass dome will have to go...

 

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to buy some Brasso for that safety valve bonnet!

[Skinnylinny]

Well, it's been a rather hectic week, but it is now Friday again, and my attention can turn to modelling once more. I'm taking a break from the SE&CR push-pull set at the moment; While the bodywork is pretty much complete, I'm not having much luck with the chassis. There is another possible design, but I need to have a play around with that when I'm a little less brain-dead. 

 

Instead, I am pondering what to do with regard to the station building at Linton. Where did we leave off...?

 

 

 

Linton (Town?) station has its main building adjoining the road bridge which crosses the platforms at a somewhat oblique angle, due to the rather cramped location in a cutting. There are steps down to the platform (which will have a landing halfway down, I just hadn't drawn these in). I'm considering extending and/or moving the ramp which leads to the end-loading dock such that it meets with the road bridge, providing a fairly large junction and making life easier for those maneuvering horse-drawn vehicles. However, in order to design a station building... what facilities would such a station require? 

What we know about Linton:

• Medium-sized town, not quite as large as Guildford (approx. 16,000 in 1901).
• Local industry includes a brewery, possibly a brickworks, as well as various smaller industries (possibly a dairy nearby?).
• Terminus, with morning trains all the to London and evening trains back.
• Small goods facilities (due to cramped location - a larger goods yard is to be found a little further from the town centre)
• Station built ca. 1875-1880? 
• Local geology includes clay/mudstone and occasional sandstone, so building likely to be build with these (brick/sandstone).

List of facilities I currently expect to include:

• Booking Office
• Waiting Room
• Lavatories
• (Ladies' Waiting Room?)
• Porters' Office
• Parcels Office (On a corner with access to the ramp down to the platform?)

 

Can anyone think of anything I've missed, or perhaps I've overcomplicated things? The platforms are quite narrow, so probably the largest thing to appear on the departures platform would be a bookstall...

Edited July 6, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[James Harrison]

Just an observation, if you're putting all of those facilities in one building on an overbridge, it might not be masonry (or not all masonry).  The building's going to be very heavy and require a lot of deep steelwork to support it.  Thinking of some real-world examples, both Loughborough Central and Tyseley are on the overbridge pattern and brick-built and in those instances it's only the booking hall and parcel office actually on the bridge, and even then that requires some very heavy steel beams.  You could go for a lighter timber building of course, and put everything in there. 

[Skinnylinny]

I will admit to having been inspired by Denmark Hill station, which appears to be a brick-built station (LBSCR, no less!) on, as you mention, rather a lot of deep steelwork. I may end up doing a research trip when I am next in London to get a closer look at this location (rather tricky from Edinburgh!). I might try to spread the load by keeping the building on one level, and spreading it over some solid brickwork on at least one side. That being said, I'm not opposed to a partly-timber building!

I could try to squeeze some waiting rooms onto the platform, but I'm running a bit short of space already!

Edited July 6, 2018 by Skinnylinny

[Andy Hayter]

I am wondering what th ramp at the back from street level down to platform is for.  It looks like an open door for fare dodgers.  Could your station facilities turn the corner and use this space?

[Skinnylinny]

I am wondering what th ramp at the back from street level down to platform is for.  It looks like an open door for fare dodgers.  Could your station facilities turn the corner and use this space?

 

It's road access to the end-loading dock - freight only - and will have (tall!) gates at the top, as well as a fence with gates at the bottom, to prevent such occurrences! Required due to the position in a cutting of the station. I could re-jig things a little, trying to fit a long, narrow station building along that wall, but then I would lose the access to the goods dock.

[James Harrison]

It's road access to the end-loading dock - freight only - and will have (tall!) gates at the top, as well as a fence with gates at the bottom, to prevent such occurrences! Required due to the position in a cutting of the station. I could re-jig things a little, trying to fit a long, narrow station building along that wall, but then I would lose the access to the goods dock.

 

You could put a small building there, the turn-in to the goods dock following hard after it.  Two storeys in height; at platform level you use it as a passenger waiting room, at road level it houses goods yard staff.  You'd need somebody stationed there, after all, to man the gate. 

[RedGemAlchemist]

Well, it's been a rather hectic week, but it is now Friday again, and my attention can turn to modelling once more. I'm taking a break from the SE&CR push-pull set at the moment; While the bodywork is pretty much complete, I'm not having much luck with the chassis. There is another possible design, but I need to have a play around with that when I'm a little less brain-dead. 

 

Instead, I am pondering what to do with regard to the station building at Linton. Where did we leave off...?

 

Linton Station 1.png

 

Linton Station 2.png

 

Linton (Town?) station has its main building adjoining the road bridge which crosses the platforms at a somewhat oblique angle, due to the rather cramped location in a cutting. There are steps down to the platform (which will have a landing halfway down, I just hadn't drawn these in). I'm considering extending and/or moving the ramp which leads to the end-loading dock such that it meets with the road bridge, providing a fairly large junction and making life easier for those maneuvering horse-drawn vehicles. However, in order to design a station building... what facilities would such a station require? 

 

What we know about Linton:

• Medium-sized town, not quite as large as Guildford (approx. 16,000 in 1901).
• Local industry includes a brewery, possibly a brickworks, as well as various smaller industries (possibly a dairy nearby?).
• Terminus, with morning trains all the to London and evening trains back.
• Small goods facilities (due to cramped location - a larger goods yard is to be found a little further from the town centre)
• Station built ca. 1875-1880? 
• Local geology includes clay/mudstone and occasional sandstone, so building likely to be build with these (brick/sandstone).

List of facilities I currently expect to include:

• Booking Office
• Waiting Room
• Lavatories
• (Ladies' Waiting Room?)
• Porters' Office
• Parcels Office (On a corner with access to the ramp down to the platform?)

 

Can anyone think of anything I've missed, or perhaps I've overcomplicated things? The platforms are quite narrow, so probably the largest thing to appear on the departures platform would be a bookstall...

Smart and compact. I like it. The overbridge is pretty cool. Will look good when it's actually given shape off the screen.

[Skinnylinny]

You could put a small building there, the turn-in to the goods dock following hard after it.  Two storeys in height; at platform level you use it as a passenger waiting room, at road level it houses goods yard staff.  You'd need somebody stationed there, after all, to man the gate. 

Now that *is* an idea... would certainly take some of the weight off the overbridge, anyway. However, the platform on that side is intended mainly as an arrivals platform, rather than a departures one. Not much call for a waiting room!

 

At present, from above, the station looks like this (with the backscene towards the bottom):

 

 

From what I can gather, you're suggesting putting a station building here (marked in red):

 

 

This would then require a bridge over to the Departures platform, which is only 14 feet deep - not really enough space to fit any platform buildings onto.

[Andy Hayter]

If you could make the platform a bit wider, the waiting rooms could be at platform level for the departures side - you don't really need them for arrivals.

[Skinnylinny]

Unfortunately I can't really get away with wider baseboards, and I'd very much like to have at least one fully-modelled street and half-relief houses along the backscene. This is a large part of why I wanted the waiting rooms to be in the station building!

[James Harrison]

Now that *is* an idea... would certainly take some of the weight off the overbridge, anyway. However, the platform on that side is intended mainly as an arrivals platform, rather than a departures one. Not much call for a waiting room!

 

At present, from above, the station looks like this (with the backscene towards the bottom):

 

Linton Map.png

 

From what I can gather, you're suggesting putting a station building here (marked in red):

 

Linton Map Proposed.png

 

This would then require a bridge over to the Departures platform, which is only 14 feet deep - not really enough space to fit any platform buildings onto.

 

Yes, that was my idea.  Unfortunate how it's not on the up platform!

 

14 feet, you'd need to leave 6 feet clear from the edge of the platform, leaves 8 feet... not much room at all. 

[Corbs]

I'm liking this a lot, Linny! It's exciting to see it rendered in 3D and makes you see it in a different way to the usual track plan.

 

In the goods yard, does domestic coal for the town centre houses and businesses arrive through here, in which case do you have room for a coal merchants in the 'unknown' area? I'm guessing that the bulk loads for the dairy and brewery are handled at the main goods yard?

Edited July 7, 2018 by Corbs

[Skinnylinny]

I'm liking this a lot, Linny! It's exciting to see it rendered in 3D and makes you see it in a different way to the usual track plan.

 

In the goods yard, does domestic coal for the town centre houses and businesses arrive through here, in which case do you have room for a coal merchants in the 'unknown' area? I'm guessing that the bulk loads for the dairy and brewery are handled at the main goods yard?

Thanks for the kind words. It certainly is making it much easier for me to visualise the layout and how everything will fit together. 

 

Assuming domestic coal use to be 1 ton per person per year, I reckon I'll need

12,000 ÷ 365 ≈ 32.8 tons per day, or roughly three wagon loads each day (more over the weekend!). That's a lot of shunting, especially if having to propel into a siding on that side. It would be made trickier by the existence of other wagons already on the longer (red) siding, but I'm sure sufficient clearance could be left for this. Perhaps those points into that siding should become a single slip... 

 

It would certainly make sense to have a coal merchant (or even two!) in the centre of town. If they share a siding, even more fun shunting can occur. 

 

The bulk goods for the dairy and the brewery would most likely either arrive at the larger yard or, perhaps (in the case of the brewery) on a private siding. 

[Compound2632]

Is this the terminus of a double-track line, or a single track (on the arrivals side) with a headshunt going off-stage through the bridge (departure side)?

 

In either case, I think (and am prepared to stand corrected) that prototype practice would be for a goods arrival to run into the arrivals platform, then after the engine has run round, be shunted into the various goods yard / end loading dock sidings. Rather than having a facing connection from the arrivals line into the goods yard, I think it would be more typical to have a trailing connection into the departure line (or headshunt) with all shunting taking place on that side. I think as well as being more prototypical, this would make for more interesting operation:

 

 

This version has no facing points for the normal direction of running on either line, keeping the Board of Trade happy, though I have drawn a facing point lock so that a passenger train can depart from the arrival platform - which might be the usual way of working, with the departure platform only coming into play at peak periods. I forgot to include a signal for this move, though.

 

The end loading dock siding could join the crossover by a single slip but I think it looks more interesting as a separate crossover - also keeps the pointwork simpler and cheaper! I've added the necessary trap for this siding too.

 

Please excuse my interference!

 

[Skinnylinny]

Not at all - I've had a play around and while I can't fit the separate crossover and end-loading crossing into the space (baseboard cross-members being an issue, along with already having long a shortened end-loading dock to allow for the ramp to street level). I tried your suggestion with the single slip, however, and managed to make that fit. I've also added the suggested coal merchants' siding too, which neatly fills up that section of the board, although it does require another slip in the goods yard, clearances being *just* too tight to do it easily with a set of points. However, I like complex trackwork, especially as it reinforces the cramped feel I'm trying to create. 

How does this look?

 

 

This would also have the advantage of no longer requiring the huge multi-armed bracket signal on the approach which I had envisaged... I like it! Thank you.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Not at all - I've had a play around and while I can't fit the separate crossover and end-loading crossing into the space (baseboard cross-members being an issue, along with already having long a shortened end-loading dock to allow for the ramp to street level). I tried your suggestion with the single slip, however, and managed to make that fit. I've also added the suggested coal merchants' siding too, which neatly fills up that section of the board, although it does require another slip in the goods yard, clearances being *just* too tight to do it easily with a set of points. However, I like complex trackwork, especially as it reinforces the cramped feel I'm trying to create. 

 

How does this look?

 

Proposed Linton.png

 

This would also have the advantage of no longer requiring the huge multi-armed bracket signal on the approach which I had envisaged... I like it! Thank you.

Wow. That is very concise. Nice work. Definitely gets across that cramped feel.

Edited July 8, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Skinnylinny]

I've been thinking about the station building on the overbridge, and, as lovely an idea as it is, more and more nagging doubts have crept into my mind. I'm now considering putting the station building up against the road on the arrivals platform side, with a solid brick base housing facilities at platform level and road level, and a covered, glazed footbridge leading over to the departures platform.

In the meantime, you may remember this sorry specimen which has been sitting on my counter for a few months: 

 

 

Work is currently ongoing on straightening out the various bent/battered bits, re-attaching the chimney, and painting. She looks a little better now, but still a long way to go yet!

 

She is being repaired and repainted in memory of the gentleman who passed her on to me for me to look at, David Walker, who unfortunately passed away not long afterwards. 

One advantage of working at 5" gauge is that you can see all the bits - no squinting to thread 0.4mm wire through handrail knobs. Here it's 3mm diameter brass rod! Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any NER lining transfers available, so I'm having to paint all the lining by hand. This is taking some time and a LOT of masking tape, along with the copious amounts of rubbing-down required! Hopefully, the finished livery will be T. W. Worsdell's NER Green, with thanks to Edwardian for providing plenty of details of this livery.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Skinnylinny