Ian_B Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Hi Guys, Can anyone point me at a reference work that will describe current practice in marking up wagons? I'm just starting in printing decals and hope to mark up a KUA Flask wagon. The wagon has a TOPS plate and some other markings - I presume something along the lines of 'This wagon not to be moved whilst the hood is unlocked', but I haven't been able to find pictures of markings to work from. The TOPS plate obviously includes a TOPS Code, and I suspect a weight, but what other information? How is it laid out? Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted January 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2018 Hi Guys, Can anyone point me at a reference work that will describe current practice in marking up wagons? I'm just starting in printing decals and hope to mark up a KUA Flask wagon. The wagon has a TOPS plate and some other markings - I presume something along the lines of 'This wagon not to be moved whilst the hood is unlocked', but I haven't been able to find pictures of markings to work from. The TOPS plate obviously includes a TOPS Code, and I suspect a weight, but what other information? How is it laid out? Regards Ian The boxed TOPS layout is merely the code in the top section, load and tare weights in the middle, with wagon number below. I would use Paul Bartlett's site as a first port of call, but there are many other websites out there that can be useful. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_B Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 The boxed TOPS layout is merely the code in the top section, load and tare weights in the middle, with wagon number below. I would use Paul Bartlett's site as a first port of call, but there are many other websites out there that can be useful. Dave Dave, (and anyone else) can anyone say what the various markings on this picture mean? I know the anchor (Train ferry) and the CT (Channel Tunnel) the originating user details and wagon type, length over buffers but does anyone understand the table in the lower left corner? It appears to be tonnages possibly max values, but what are the vertical A, B, C, D columns and the two horizontal rows S and 120? Regards Ian_B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted February 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2018 Hi Ian, The table is a UIC (Union Internationale Chemins de Fer/International Railway Union) sign and indicates load limits and speeds. Wagons that are intended for use overseas have this style of marking, as opposed to the domestic TOPS panel. Lots of domestic wagons built abroad (such as the Greenergy TEA tankers) carry this style of UIC marking along with the domestic TOPS codes; I imagine the UIC markings were needed only for their rail journey from the factory to this side of the Channel Tunnel. This document may assist - see p17 for more details of the load limit markings: http://www.gcubureau.org/documents/10184/0/Appendix-11_v-16-06-09_en.pdf/4e8f46ba-1e8b-46c1-ac44-0dba1d7da364 Cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Dave, (and anyone else) can anyone say what the various markings on this picture mean? RIV data plate sample.jpg I know the anchor (Train ferry) and the CT (Channel Tunnel) the originating user details and wagon type, length over buffers but does anyone understand the table in the lower left corner? It appears to be tonnages possibly max values, but what are the vertical A, B, C, D columns and the two horizontal rows S and 120? Regards Ian_B The four tonnages listed are equivalent to the L, M and H you would find on yellow self-adhesive panels on BR stock pre-TOPS; I believe the weights given indicate the brake force in each load condition, but can't confirm without finding an SNCF document my wife was issued with 27 years ago. On this wagon, the wagon can travel at 100 kph (indicated by the 'S') in all loaded states. Sometimes, the wagon may travel faster in the lightly-loaded condition, so you will have a second horizontal line (below that with the 's') with 'ss' in the left hand column, then the loads the wagon may carry at this speed. Until recently, some wagons had a line above the 's' line, with '90' where the 's' would be, again with the maximum load at that speed. In other instances, you will see 'ss' on another line, below the one with the 's', indicating in which load conditions the wagon may travel at 120 kph. The '120' with '0.oo' indicates that this wagon may run at 120 kph only when empty. As with BR, one wagon with a lower maximum speed is sufficient to mean the entire train has to run at the lower speed- this is noted on the 'Fiche du Bord' given to the driver, in the same way as it would be in TOPS. In the working timetable, the column for each train would be headed 'MA100', 'ME120' or 'ME140' according to the maximum speed at which the train is timetabled. 'MA' indicates 'Marchandises' (Goods) and 'ME' 'Messageries' (originally what we would term 'Sundries' or 'Parcels') 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Presumably (never say obviously!) the figure in the "cylinder", 43 801 l is the litres capacity of the tank, carrying "craie liquide", literally liquid chalk. (- 14,46 m -) length over buffers? and what about the boxed figures 22 560 kg and 21 t - one's surely the weight empty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Presumably (never say obviously!) the figure in the "cylinder", 43 801 l is the litres capacity of the tank, carrying "craie liquide", literally liquid chalk. (- 14,46 m -) length over buffers? and what about the boxed figures 22 560 kg and 21 t - one's surely the weight empty? One's the Tare weight, the other the Brake Force when empty. You're correct about the others. 'Craie liquide' is chalk slurry, used like kaolin as a filler and coating in the paper and board industry. Slightly off-piste, but I find it 'interesting' that ERMEWA show their head office as being in Geneva, as they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of SNCF, and the wagon's registered in France. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The four tonnages listed are equivalent to the L, M and H you would find on yellow self-adhesive panels on BR stock pre-TOPS; I believe the weights given indicate the brake force in each load condition, but can't confirm without finding an SNCF document my wife was issued with 27 years ago. On this wagon, the wagon can travel at 100 kph (indicated by the 'S') in all loaded states. Sometimes, the wagon may travel faster in the lightly-loaded condition, so you will have a second horizontal line (below that with the 's') with 'ss' in the left hand column, then the loads the wagon may carry at this speed. Until recently, some wagons had a line above the 's' line, with '90' where the 's' would be, again with the maximum load at that speed. In other instances, you will see 'ss' on another line, below the one with the 's', indicating in which load conditions the wagon may travel at 120 kph. The '120' with '0.oo' indicates that this wagon may run at 120 kph only when empty. As with BR, one wagon with a lower maximum speed is sufficient to mean the entire train has to run at the lower speed- this is noted on the 'Fiche du Bord' given to the driver, in the same way as it would be in TOPS. In the working timetable, the column for each train would be headed 'MA100', 'ME120' or 'ME140' according to the maximum speed at which the train is timetabled. 'MA' indicates 'Marchandises' (Goods) and 'ME' 'Messageries' (originally what we would term 'Sundries' or 'Parcels') Close but no Cigar.. The 4 figures are the maximum load depending on the 'line category', so a journey over an A line can only carry 41 tonnes of load. Some steel carriers have additional D ratings for lines specifically able to take high axle weights, usually steel traffic. I think I have something I can scan late... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 One's the Tare weight, the other the Brake Force when empty. You're correct about the others. 'Craie liquide' is chalk slurry, used like kaolin as a filler and coating in the paper and board industry. Slightly off-piste, but I find it 'interesting' that ERMEWA show their head office as being in Geneva, as they're a wholly-owned subsidiary of SNCF, and the wagon's registered in France. Oh dear Brian, you need to pay attention in class... :-) The lower weight is the brake force of the hand brake. Used in SNCF yards. The brake force 'masse frienee' can be calculated 'mandraulically' from the information on the wagon side and the load information from the CIM or LVI. Again I have something I can scan later... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Oh dear Brian, you need to pay attention in class... :-) The lower weight is the brake force of the hand brake. Used in SNCF yards. The brake force 'masse frienee' can be calculated 'mandraulically' from the information on the wagon side and the load information from the CIM or LVI. Again I have something I can scan later... Ernie, it was twenty-seven years ago that I last saw that document.. I hadn't realised that SNCF quoted a brake force for the handbrake, given they're so loath to use it, preferring Scotches/chocks/cales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) Adding to the picture, this 4-wheel van has a "lozenge" bottom left (rather than a cylinder for the tank wagon above), showing a square metres figure (photo from 1984): as does this open wagon, also from the 1980s: Never took much notice of the markings at the time - never had to! Edited February 3, 2018 by eastwestdivide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The RIV was superceded by the GCU and GCU appendix 11 covers markings on wagons, available on-line.. http://www.gcubureau.org/documents/10184/52712/20150101+-+EN+-+GCU+appendix+11.pdf/ec0dbf03-965a-4e5a-951f-915786104d3d Let me know if you have any queries. Thanks Ernie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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