RMweb Premium Northroader Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 One with 6wheel tender? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Perfect! Thank you again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 So the result of those drawings is this table: So that leads to the following observations: The A12 is eminently do-able. All the key dimensions are within my tolerance, even the T9 boiler wouldn't require any cutting down by my reckoning, as even those dimensions are within my 2mm tolerance. A new cab would probably have to be fabricated, though it seems there's the possibility of simply altering the cut-out on the T9 cab. A Drummond tender might be usable but I don't currently have a spare one. This will be looked into in due course. The D1 is also just about do-able though in some ways more significant surgery may be required with a good deal of cutting and shutting around the cab to reduce the boiler and firebox length, as well as the cab and bunker length as well as the wheel arrangement. New trailing wheels would have to be found (not in the table, I know, but that just occurred to me). The Boiler Pitch is perhaps a touch on the high side but not massively. It'd probably be more noticeable than the 2mm discrepancies with the A12 though. The D2 is possibly more do-able than the D1 as it has a higher boiler pitch and less work to do around the cab, though the T9 cab would need significant alteration all the same. The T9 boiler would need trimming down by 8mm but that's not impossible. Once again, new trailing wheels would be required. Possibly a Triang/GBL CR 123 tender would be needed for the top with a fabricated chassis. Another possibility is to bash the M7 into an Adams T1, but as far as I'm concerned I may as well just put it into Southern livery if I'm going to do that as a T1 and M7 are so similar as makes no difference operationally. I'd rather have an A12 than a T1. I think it looks like the A12 is possibly the best bet to go with (Makes sense really as I'm making the model from LSWR bits!) and given I'm intending to finish it in SR livery (little point putting it in LSWR livery really as the rest of my main LSWR/ex-LSWR fleet is in olive! 488 is the one exception, but that's because it'll be appearing on Blackstone West) I can possibly get away with reusing such features as the Drummond chimney and dome. That said, I much prefer the look of the Adams boiler so will most likely modify the loco to suit. It may get a Drummond boiler initially though until I can replace the dome and safety valves. So, now to choose a suitable A12 to model! I may choose one of the Westinghouse-equipped ones simply because the M7 currently has one! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted January 3, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2019 Start stocking up on old M7s, then. Tip: move the bogie centre in a bit, chop a bit off the nose, and Scotland is your oyster. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Well, this won't be an old M7... It's actually relatively new... But it's rather worse-for-wear these days, so has bee replaced by an SR Olive one. Also, newer models possibly lend themselves to this kind of project better than older ones because they're made of separate parts rather than single mouldings. Just deciding on an identity for my A12 now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 So that escalated quickly! To explain what happened, the M7 has now lost its cab, bunker, tanks and most of its boiler. Whether or not it will loose the rest of its boiler remains to be seen. I can either leave the front ring of the boiler as it is and join the second ring and firebox from the T9 behind it or remove it completely and put the T9 boiler in in its entirety. The latter is more work but gives a bit more adhesive weight. That said I've never found Hornby M7's especially weak and this one will probably gain tender pickups which will help with running and the metal T9 boiler over the driven axle will help too. I'll probably also remove the M7's decoder socket as there will be one in the tender (assuming that, as I plan to, I use a Hornby T9 tender. Once the T9 boiler is in I'll look at sorting and strengthening the footplate and getting the cab on, as well as altering the trailing wheel arrangement whilst retaining the pickups there. All good fun but it felt good to be getting back to chopping about real bits of loco rather than virtual ones. Oh, and if it all goes t*ts up then the plan is to use the chassis under a Golden Arrow Productions LBSCR D3 body. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Now, would a Wainwright C Class provide a more suitable cab than the T9? At first glance it certainly appears to be a better shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) With that question still unanswered, by me that is, I have another! I have two options with regards boilering my A12. I can either retain the front portion of the M7 boiler and slice across the metal T9 boiler and join it on, or I can ditch the M7 boiler entirely and cut out the underneath of the T9 boiler. My concern with the latter is that it might not fit over the chassis at what is a very tight point. This diagram shows it better: Note that they're not to scale! Edited January 5, 2019 by sem34090 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted January 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 5, 2019 Try the second and, if unsuccessful, try the first? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 Why didn't I think of that?! So cut out the bottom of the front ring of the T9 boiler, see if it fits, then chop it off if not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Good Heavens! Today marks a year since I joined RMweb as a member, though I'd already become quite familiar with some of the more recurrent members around here in the preceding three years or more of browsing! I hereby offer my thanks to everyone here, in the pre-grouping section, for the support and friendship you've offered over the past 12 months, even when I failed to deliver, failed to maintain a standard or simply failed! It's been so nice to finally become part of this lovely section of the forum and I must admit it feels like I've been here rather longer. And this thread will be celebrating its first birthday tomorrow due to the fact that my first day was spent hijacking Alex's workbench thread!!! Thank you to you all. And an even greater thanks to some of you in particular - You know who you are! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 So, some of you may recall that in the past I've bemoaned the fact that I didn't have any bits in my bits box that were worth bashing - About that... Now some of these bits are destined for the A12 (Which may now end up being a T1!) But there's a lot of other stuff I've found today. And it all needs tidying!!! If anyone sees anything there that could b e bashed into something SR/LSWR/SECR/LBSCR Please point it out! Amongst that lot are the remnants of two modern specification Hornby M7 bodies, two Triang M7 bodies (one with a chassis), a finecast M7 body, a Mainline Dean Goods body, multiple pannier bodies, a K's Adams Radial body... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Ashdown Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 So, some of you may recall that in the past I've bemoaned the fact that I didn't have any bits in my bits box that were worth bashing - About that... IMG_20190119_153123.jpg Now some of these bits are destined for the A12 (Which may now end up being a T1!) But there's a lot of other stuff I've found today. And it all needs tidying!!! If anyone sees anything there that could b e bashed into something SR/LSWR/SECR/LBSCR Please point it out! Amongst that lot are the remnants of two modern specification Hornby M7 bodies, two Triang M7 bodies (one with a chassis), a finecast M7 body, a Mainline Dean Goods body, multiple pannier bodies, a K's Adams Radial body... The Tri-ang clerestory bodies can be bashed into LBSCR and SECR carriages... at least so I'm told! That said, Gary Bluelightening did some nice LBSCR conversions a while back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Ah, that much I had already thought of! I need a few more of those really before I can properly start bashing them into LSWR, LBSCR and also SECR stock. Someone kindly sent me some of the 1960s articles on bashing them into such stock. Already everything is being sorted so that I can get to it again more easily. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) So, the plan for the clerestories... I've decided that they'll be used to form up a push-pull set. This will be to complement my M7 and will be for use on Beauclere and possibly Blackstone West. Now, any suggestions as to what SR Push-Pull sets would most readily lend themselves to bashing from Triang Clerestories? Given Beauclere is set to be SR Western Division and the loco generally seen on the set will be an M7 (Or possibly a T1 - Did they ever get fitted for push-pull working?) it makes sense to me that the set be ex-LSWR, but I'm also looking at ex-SECR sets. Ex-LBSCR would be better-off formed from Ratio Midland coaches. I note that the bogies currently under my clerestories (whitemetal ones, I assume they're Dean) look similar to SECR ones. So, the basic questions I'm asking here are: Which SR Push-Pull sets are most readily created from Triang Clerestories? If LSWR, when were the driving end styles converted from three windows to LBSCR-style four windows? The period for this set is pre-1933 but post-1925. Incidentally, when did the Southern start converting ex-LSWR locos to the Westinghouse Air-Operated Push-Pull system? Currently to me it looks like a conversion to an SECR Push-Pull set is easier, even though I'd rather like an LSWR one. Edited January 19, 2019 by sem34090 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Which SR Push-Pull sets are most readily created from Triang Clerestories? Back in my Hornby Dublo days (mid 1960's) there were a series of articles in the Model Railway Constructor (IIRC) on converting Triang clerestories into a Southern push pull set. They also dealt with converting a R1 to a M7 (I think). I built the push pull set, and still have it, but never got round to doing the loco conversion. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 At a guess the R1 conversion would've been for an SECR H, Jim. Do you have some photos of your push-pull set, or any more information about it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 In the meantime some minor work has occurred after I found a few wagons and my HMRS SR Wagon transfer sheet: So, from left to right we have... Oxford Rail Adams Radial with Drummond chimney newly transplanted from the K's Radial as part of my plan to have the model as 0488 in circa-1919 condition prior to sale to the EKR. Bachmann SR 25T Brake Van - Lettering altered to earlier, larger, style. Hornby Dublo BR Gunpowder Van - Lettering added to roughly represent a 1912 LSWR Gunpowder Van. It should be red but after some weathering hopefully it'll work alright. Graham Farish Generic (Possibly LNER or BR) 5-Plank open wagon - SR Lettering added simply to bolster my SR wagon stock. No number as no prototype. Gramodels LSWR Van - One set of LSWR lettering applied two years ago, but the rest added tonight. Bachmann SR Ventilated Van - Vent arrangement converted two years ago, with one set of lettering applied, with the rest added tonight. Still needs number adding. Dapol 5-Plnak open wagon - One set of lettering applied two years ago, the other tonight. Need to try and find a rough prototype to give a number. Hornby ex-LBSCR 20T Brake Van - Lettering altered to earlier, larger, style. There are a couple of others requiring further work but as far as modelling's concerned it's time to call it a night. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 So, some of you may recall that in the past I've bemoaned the fact that I didn't have any bits in my bits box that were worth bashing - About that... IMG_20190119_153123.jpg Now some of these bits are destined for the A12 (Which may now end up being a T1!) But there's a lot of other stuff I've found today. And it all needs tidying!!! If anyone sees anything there that could b e bashed into something SR/LSWR/SECR/LBSCR Please point it out! Amongst that lot are the remnants of two modern specification Hornby M7 bodies, two Triang M7 bodies (one with a chassis), a finecast M7 body, a Mainline Dean Goods body, multiple pannier bodies, a K's Adams Radial body... If that Welford mineral-wagon is to the 1923 RCH pattern, paint it SECR grey, with "12 TONS" on the top plank over the door, and designate it as one of the wagons bought in 1910/1911 from Hurst Nelson. The solebar detail won't be right, but it will be quite close. The SECR bought wagons of this type both with and without end doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) Right, well that's a plan then! I have several of those, some in BR Grey - Would it be possible to just remove the BR insignia and put those into SECR (Light) grey, like this: EDIT: Also, does anyone have any details on SECR Brake vans? Surely they must have had some which didn't have six wheels, but I've yet to spot any! Edited January 20, 2019 by sem34090 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 At a guess the R1 conversion would've been for an SECR H, Jim. Do you have some photos of your push-pull set, or any more information about it? As far as SR locos and coaches are concerned, like Manuel, 'I know nothing!' (How do you type that with a Spanish accent?) I managed to dig the coaches out of the box in the garage I never did get round to fitting the buffers between the coaches. the model shop I used to go to, Glassfords in Cambridge St in Glasgow, only had one set in stock at the time and the owner was an irascible old chap who wasn't keen on getting things in for you. The numbers were made up from the transfers from Kitmaster kits and I imagine I used the ones quoted in the article. I would be in my mid-late teens when I did them. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 I can't quite see the joins (!) Jim, so might you possibly be able to highlight them for me? I like that a lot and it'll do. It looks LBSCR to me but that seems to be the safest bet anyway? I'm thinking that I may be able to use Ratio MR ends and roof here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley Jim Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 I can't quite see the joins (!) Jim, so might you possibly be able to highlight them for me? I had to dig them back out to remind myself! On the driving trailer the join is between the second and third compartments from the driving end and on the compo it is between the third and fourth compartments from the inner (3rd class) end. Both marked approximately by a cross on this edited photo. Click on the image and you can enlarge it. (Sorry, I used 'Paint' to add the crosses and I'm not very good with that!) The ends are just plain styrene as are the roofs. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Annie Posted January 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20, 2019 SECR 10 ton brake van. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sem34090 Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Nice though that is, and certainly one to look at in the future, I was hoping that something would be able to be bashed from one of these: I have an old Mainline-tooling one. Given that it resembles the 6-wheel brake I was hoping a 4-wheeled version might have existed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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