Theo C. Cupier Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) Spotted this and wondered if it might cause a few problems within the rail community? The Defence community certainly seem worried. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-carillion/uks-carillion-to-discuss-rescue-with-creditors-on-january-10-idUKKBN1EV0IK Edited January 8, 2018 by Theo C. Cupier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2018 Spotted this and wondered if it might cause a few problems withing the rail community? The Defence community certainly seem worried. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-carillion/uks-carillion-to-discuss-rescue-with-creditors-on-january-10-idUKKBN1EV0IK Potentially, Carillion undertake the infrastructure maintenance on the East London Line for TfL, so could have a significant impact on this heavily used commuter line. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo C. Cupier Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 The article suggests that they may have some involvement with HS2 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The article suggests that they may have some involvement with HS2 as well. They used to do the maintenance on HS1, though I'm not sure if they still do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2018 There have been suggestions that Carillion have been in trouble for some time now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2018 There have been suggestions that Carillion have been in trouble for some time now. Not just a suggestion. The article quotes the first profit warning as being last July. That ties in with when I first read about the problems. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejames Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) https://www.ft.com/content/43057b2a-6ab9-11e7-bfeb-33fe0c5b7eaa this maybe of interest regards mike james sorry link is subscription only - will try to find another Edited January 8, 2018 by mikejames Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2018 https://www.ft.com/content/43057b2a-6ab9-11e7-bfeb-33fe0c5b7eaa this maybe of interest regards mike james Subscription only? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejames Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 sorry I tried to post a link earlier but it was subscription only This one is less good but list some of the work carillion to do for hs2 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/main-civil-engineering-works-contracts-for-stage-1-of-hs2-phase-one mike james Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2018 Not just a suggestion. The article quotes the first profit warning as being last July. That ties in with when I first read about the problems. Bernard It was mentioned in the HS2 thread about that sort of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 Whatever was proposed worked - Carillion's share price jumped 26% yesterday according to the DT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginelane Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Whatever was proposed worked - Carillion's share price jumped 26% yesterday according to the DT. Likely to be a backing for a bail out. Government contracts were to be Re done and banks will like that it is the government paying the bills Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Likely to be a backing for a bail out. Government contracts were to be Re done and banks will like that it is the government us paying the bills That's more like it! The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 They have already stopped payments to their pension fund, and, as mentioned, have been in trouble for some time. There was talk of a company from China buying them to gain access to markets in Europe, but it may be just talk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 They have already stopped payments to their pension fund, Tell me about it, one of my Pensions is sitting with them, having had 13 years working for a Company they took over, I hope for my sake it gets sorted! Quite a few of my old colleagues are still there and pretty depressed, the atmosphere is not good. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2018 As regard HS2, the Government are on record as saying they specifically drew up the contracts such that (1) There would be no need to bail Carillion out and (2) I Carillion did fold then the others in the consortium (nobody won a contract outright) would be legally and financially liable to finish the work / pick up any extra costs inured. However as we have seen with a number of companies recently, where it is felt that the Pension scheme is threatening a companies ability to rise cash and continue trading, what can be done is to transfer the pensions to the state backed Pension Protection Fund. This is seen as 'Good news' by the financial markets and will result in a rise in the share price and an improvement in the availability of capital to fund restructuring. I am not sure the current situation with Carillion, but it would not surprise me if this is why the shares jumped recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted January 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2018 Tell me about it, one of my Pensions is sitting with them, having had 13 years working for a Company they took over, I hope for my sake it gets sorted! Quite a few of my old colleagues are still there and pretty depressed, the atmosphere is not good. Peter I have 23 years worth of pension in TPS (an engineering design consultancy owned by Carillion). I left to go freelance seven years ago so I am somewhat interested in the Company’s survival. Darius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2018 It's not looking good. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42675427 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Heard today from a riend that government have said let the shareholders cough up they have had the benefit over the year and after all a call on them would be an idea ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 13, 2018 I am finding it difficult to get any figures re the situation. It does seem that a major problem is with NHS work. Involving SERCO is not my idea of a solution going on my past experience. I don't see outside money coming in at the required rate so it would seem to be an X shares for 1 scenario or it all goes to pices.I would like to see what the costs are on the HS2 part as if they are not doing as well as intended on that job that could indicate a very expensive outcome. Monday might produce some news. Regarding pensions. At least there is now the PPF and FAS to provide a reasonable amount of help. When I lost everything three weeks before I was due to retire in 2003 there was nothing to fall back on. Four years of campaigning eventually got a result. There is a loss, however, let's put it this way, I don't need to worry about being able to afford a Bachmann crane. If you are worried, there is a safety net in place, not perfect but a big relief to have a scheme in place. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 It would seem Carillion had its fingers in too many corporate pies. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 4630 Posted January 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2018 It would seem Carillion had failures of management at very senior levels in the business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 It is hard to watch a British company of that size (and pretty good quality on delivery, if my experience of working with them on several major rail projects is any guide) be thrown to the wolves. We could just wash our hands of the affair, and let the Chinese, who have been angling for them for a number of years, buy their way in, on the cheap, and reap the inevitable whirlwind (cf Tata). Or we could do what many European countries have done with their equivalents, and ensure proper re-structuring of both the company and its debt, is enabled, by the positive encouragement of mergers and stand-alone, special interest (and essentially profitable) companies. Witness Siemens, Alstom, CAF and others recently. The current problem is Brexit (aside from the questionable decisions made by the company internally). What Euro firm will want to conjoin with a firm that could see 50% of its activity constrained or curtailed by so uncertain a future relationship? The clamour in some quarters to bring their activities "in house" is understandable, particularly in health and social care. But I am not sure where that would lead, given current spending and borrowing limits, only marginally raised recently, underscored by Spreadsheet Phil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Construction is a very hard industry to make money in. Very low margins for quite high risk. Compare 1to2% profit for taking risks with ground conditions, underground utilities and the British Weather. Compare that to TOCs that get at least 3% margin where the biggest risk is the economy and unions. Cash flow is also a killer with long delays common and if you have a loss making contract then you quickly run out of cash and have to inject money from group reserves. All of the biggest UK construction companies have had a bad few years but not to the extent facing Carillion and the others are well on the way to recover. I’ve not worked for Carillion myself but have a pension with Balfour Beatty who are now back in an upwards path. I also have 10years if pension locked into PPF after the construction company I started my career with went bust. I think the problems with bailing out Carillion are the precedent it sets in an industry where company failures are very very common and there are so many other companies able & willing to fill the void that would be left if Carillion fail. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 There is a precedent for bailing out failing companies. The politicians were quick to bail out the banks when they were failing, but not, it seems, non-banking companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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