Bulleid Coaches

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, RFS said:

Summer Saturday workings were very extensive and far more interesting! Here are the morning departures for 1958.

 

 

 

Oh yes, and often supplemented with 'extras'. Train formations were 'interesting'.

[chris45lsw]

On 23/10/2022 at 19:14, Oldddudders said:

Too many Maunsells? Hardly a disappointment! Admittedly most of mine are in olive, but these are very fine renditions. I take your point about strategic selling by Bachmann, though. But I can't be alone among modellers buying more than needed 'just in case', and being better able to change eras. A handful of BCK Bulleids would be very welcome, although Phoenix S6723S is sitting here begging for the couplings to be changed so it can become my Torrington branch coach. 

Are you sure you have a Phoenix D2406?  Yes, one was planned relatively late in the day but I don't recall one actually being produced. 

Chris KT

[chris45lsw]

On 25/10/2022 at 21:05, Jack P said:

 

Possibly the Mk.1's, but the Maunsell's are missing a fairly significant portion of the diagrams available. R0/R1 stock + all the other oddities, like the nondescript coaches. 

 

I appreciate that you're making a (very valid) point. But this is me moaning about the lack of maunsell stock 😆

It might be 'greedy' but even sticking to Maunsell R4 stock several sets were not pure 'Hornby' but had examples of '1935' stock - D2008, D2113 - with the earlier stock.  And from 1956 when second class was abolished and third renamed second R1 nondescripts now classed as Open Seconds were incorporated in several W. Section. otherwise R4, 8-sets.

Chris KT

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

Are you sure you have a Phoenix D2406?  Yes, one was planned relatively late in the day but I don't recall one actually being produced. 

Chris KT

 

 

If you can read it, Larry Goddard's signature is dated 2002, which I think puts it after BSL days. Unless it is by a completely different manufacturer?

[Ian J.]

Not very good pics, I haven't been able to get decent light onto them, but the BR(S) Green ones are here:

 

 

 

 

The green still looks a little too dark to me, but otherwise they are nice 🙂

[Wickham Green too]

12 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

Are you sure you have a Phoenix D2406?  Yes, one was planned relatively late in the day but I don't recall one actually being produced. 

Chris KT

SC54 was certainly in the catalogue, Chris, and not marked 'under development' like a few other kits were .............. whether any were made is a different matter, of course !

[Mallard60022]

20 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

 

 

If you can read it, Larry Goddard's signature is dated 2002, which I think puts it after BSL days. Unless it is by a completely different manufacturer?

Built by Larry for someone like me that has had a BSL kit in a box for 20 years?

Phil

[RFS]

Also got my 2-set yesterday. What do people think about the colour? Seems still too dark to me. Here's a comparison in the best light I could manage.

 

 

From left to right - Hornby, new Bachmann, original Bachmann (late) and original Bachmann (early).

 

Difficult to find photos that show the real colours but this one from Mike Morant is significant. There's a very clean loco (it's a rail tour) and the 3rd coach appears to be dark green, but not the others. The Brunswick Green of the loco is useful as a comparison. 

 

And all the roofs are different too!

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/Bulleid-rebuilt-MNs/i-DGF6fJC/A

 

So what's the verdict?

Edited October 28, 2022 by RFS

[CHARLIE5]

24 minutes ago, RFS said:

Also got my 2-set yesterday. What do people think about the colour? Seems still too dark to me. Here's a comparison in the best light I could manage.

 

 

From left to right - Hornby, new Bachmann, original Bachmann (late) and original Bachmann (early).

 

Difficult to find photos that show the real colours but this one from Mike Morant is significant. There's a very clean loco (it's a rail tour) and the 3rd coach appears to be dark green, but not the others. The Brunswick Green of the loco is useful as a comparison. 

 

And all the roofs are different too!

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/Bulleid-rebuilt-MNs/i-DGF6fJC/A

 

So what's the verdict?

 

I have just received my 2 car set (BR green) and loose third (34-775) in BR malachite green. I agree the BR green is too dark if one assumes the Hornby version is the more accurate. The malachite green is closer but not a perfect match. I suppose this comes down to personal choice but we are still left of the old problem of matching colours when combining stock from each manufacturer. 

[2ManySpams]

My 2-set R arrived yesterday and I had a quick look at them. Initial thoughts were that they were very good coaches, nicely furnished. The colour of the green didn't jump out at me as being hideously wrong.

 

 

A comparison photo here. Bachmann new Bulleid, Hornby Maunsell, Bachmann Brunswick Green loco. 

 

The new Bachmann Bulleid green is lighter than the Brunswick Green but darker than the Hornby Maunsells. It's obviously much better than the dark black green Bachmann used for the later releases of the original Bulleid coaches, which looked very wrong to me.

 

My personal view is that photos show there wasn't a single green (either through paint, fading or varnish). IMO the new Bulleid coaches are at the darker end of what I think is an acceptable spectrum and the Hornby Maunsells are at the lighter (more yellow) end. 

 

The Bachmann colour is certainly richer and fuller, with a hint of shine. The Hornby are matt finish and benefit in some subtle shine being added as was done by a few including @NHY 581 Mr Sheepbloke. 

 

A Lot depends on the light you photograph them under too...

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

26 minutes ago, CHARLIE5 said:

 

I have just received my 2 car set (BR green) and loose third (34-775) in BR malachite green. I agree the BR green is too dark if one assumes the Hornby version is the more accurate. The malachite green is closer but not a perfect match. I suppose this comes down to personal choice but we are still left of the old problem of matching colours when combining stock from each manufacturer. 

If it's anything like one run of the older models Bachmann produced, the colour is an accurate render of one of the shades BR used. As the linked photo shows, there were two, or that the colour faded in service, so running non-matching models is not unprototypical.

 

Unfortunately, when applied to models, dark colours look darker than they do on full size vehicles. Hornby has lightened the shade they use to counteract this effect, which satisfies most users, even though it's not an exact match to that applied by BR.

 

John

Edited October 28, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[NHY 581]

8 minutes ago, 2ManySpams said:

My 2-set R arrived yesterday and I had a quick look at them. Initial thoughts were that they were very good coaches, nicely furnished. The colour of the green didn't jump out at me as being hideously wrong.

 

 

A comparison photo here. Bachmann new Bulleid, Hornby Maunsell, Bachmann Brunswick Green loco. 

 

The new Bachmann Bulleid green is lighter than the Brunswick Green but darker than the Hornby Maunsells. It's obviously much better than the dark black green Bachmann used for the later releases of the original Bulleid coaches, which looked very wrong to me.

 

My personal view is that photos show there wasn't a single green (either through paint, fading or varnish). IMO the new Bulleid coaches are at the darker end of what I think is an acceptable spectrum and the Hornby Maunsells are at the lighter (more yellow) end. 

 

The Bachmann colour is certainly richer and fuller, with a hint of shine. The Hornby are matt finish and benefit in some subtle shine being added as was done by a few including @NHY 581 Mr Sheepbloke. 

 

A Lot depends on the light you photograph them under too...

 

 

 

 

Nice Prairie. 

 

 

[trevor7598]

My Bachmann Bulleids arrived this morning, a West of England 2set.

Here is a comparison shot with a Hornby ' shortie '. The image was taken in bright sunshine,

and shows the different shades of green between the two. It could be argued that the colours

depict coaches fresh from overhaul, and those that have been in service for a while.

Neither are offensive to my eye. At least Bachmann have binned that horrible very dark

green they used a while back.

I am not sure about the white gangway doors on the Bachmann coaches, they should be black.

On later 1960's repaints these doors were cream.

[gwrrob]

17 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Nice Prairie. 

 

 

 

Nice bush, sorry wrong thread.

[Ian Hargrave]

I’d agree that the BR( S ) green as applied with the new release does seem dark but a lot depends upon the lighting condition you use. I’ve also just received the first “malachite “ example and to my observations when next to a current Hornby Bulleid short malachite coach,the two together do not cause a significant clash of tone.

 

[trevor7598]

It has taken Bachmann a long time to settle for a shade of BR(S) coaching stock green.

As long as the present shade chosen for the new Bulleids doesn't get any darker

I for one could live with their present offering.

[bude_branch]

Personally I can live with the latest green used by Bachmann and I'm now hoping they will use this green for all their new Bulleids.  What I wouldn't want to see is a different green in the same train or set.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, bude_branch said:

Personally I can live with the latest green used by Bachmann and I'm now hoping they will use this green for all their new Bulleids.  What I wouldn't want to see is a different green in the same train or set.

 
Though it may well have been prototypically correct at the time,it just doesn’t look right on a model railway.To compare,I am currently running the new BR (S) set coupled to the rear of its crimson & cream counterpart.The effect is ghastly to my eyes. I must mention that before running it’s advisable to check both wheel sets and underbody detailing components. One unseated length of pipe ensured one coach could move only in one direction .Fixing it challenged both eyesight & dexterity. That said,I think these coaches are excellent models.

[Mallard60022]

Has anyone wondered if someone at Hornby has a naughty SOH with using 69 as the Set number? Nah, I didn't think so, it's just me.

P

[RFS]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Has anyone wondered if someone at Hornby has a naughty SOH with using 69 as the Set number? Nah, I didn't think so, it's just me.

P

 

Are you trying to blame Hornby for Bachmann's possibly naughty SOH? 😀

 

As far as the coach colours are concerned, the latest Bachmann green is passable in full sun. But in the railway room, where direct sun on models is to be avoided at all costs, it just looks too dark to my eyes. The 2-set is the late version with body straps etc, so perhaps when they do earlier versions the green might be a tad lighter. 

[Graham_Muz]

2 hours ago, RFS said:

 

Are you trying to blame Hornby for Bachmann's possibly naughty SOH? 😀

 

As far as the coach colours are concerned, the latest Bachmann green is passable in full sun. But in the railway room, where direct sun on models is to be avoided at all costs, it just looks too dark to my eyes. The 2-set is the late version with body straps etc, so perhaps when they do earlier versions the green might be a tad lighter. 

Now there is an idea, let's ask the manufacturers to produce different paint shades to suit everyone's differing layout lighting set ups... 

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Now there is an idea, let's ask the manufacturers to produce different paint shades to suit everyone's differing layout lighting set ups... 

The huge advantage the Internet offers us all. Ideas that are weird, wacky, wonderful and WTF - all without anyone dying. Keep 'em coming ,chaps. 

[Ian Hargrave]

17 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The huge advantage the Internet offers us all. Ideas that are weird, wacky, wonderful and WTF - all without anyone dying. Keep 'em coming ,chaps. 

Well not yet anyway 😳

[RFS]

1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

Now there is an idea, let's ask the manufacturers to produce different paint shades to suit everyone's differing layout lighting set ups... 

 

My point was that the dark green that has been adopted came late on in BR days. Earlier renderings were lighter, as shown in this photo from Mike Morant that I quoted earlier, where the 3rd coach is the only dark coach in the train.  Bachmann's earlier Bulleid versions came in three distinct colours - Malachite (light), BR "Southern Region" Green (medium) and BR (SR) Green (dark).  I now have Bulleid coaches in 6 different liveries on my layout today

 

- Early (medium)

- Early (dark)

- Hornby (medium, but not the same as previous 2)

- New (Crimson and Cream)

- New Malachite (loose coach)

- New dark Green (2-set)

 

Even Hornby's Maunsell coaches in both crimson-and-cream and green do not all match. But like the picture, very prototypical!

[John Isherwood]

14 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

... the only dark coach in the train.

 

It's called fading - and it still happens today, despite advances in paint technology.

 

Nowadays, viewers make knee-jerk reactions to historic photos, without giving due consideration to what they are looking at.

 

At the relevant time in history, being around at the time, I do not recall discussion concerning a change in livery or colour used on BR(SR) coaching stock.

 

Sometimes we overthink these matters; it's not always as complex as is sometimes suggested.

 

CJI.