Formula 1 2018

[daltonparva]

I do wonder whether the Force India affair, triggered by Perez with almost everyone’s approval, might make the whole F1 edifice shake. Liberty’s man, Chase Carey, had been doing the rounds of other teams to get approval to the principle that Force India’s credits this year in points earned, and thus entitlement to a share of the prize fund, could simply transfer to the newowner, whatever he calls the team. Apparently Williams, McLaren and Renault have all declined to support this. Sour grapes for the minnow team that has beaten them all in recent seasons?

It all seems related to Liberty’s ongoing wish to more evenly distribute the prize pot, but it sounds awfully like three teams with limited budgets looking to get a bit more because Force India can’t. All very well, but without assrances from Liberty, is. A new owner likely to be found, if there will be no income, irrespective of results, for a couple of seasons? If that happens, only 9 teams in 2019, and 400 people out of work from August.

Money has made this sport dirty and nasty beyond imagining.

That doesn't exactly sound fair to me. The bloke who owned the team and was spending his money when the credits were earned should be paid for them, he would have suffered the losses so he should make the gains, whether people are for or against him in his current predicament.

[royaloak]

Bottas’s tyres were changed too early. Perhaps covering Kimi, or expecting a two-stopper, but it left him vulnerable in the later stages, although he did hold up the Ferraris such that Lewis had no worries after Vettel changed to ultras. Vettel left Bottas nowhere to go when he went round him. Should Bottas, in his wounded car, have simply yielded to Ricciardo without a fight? I suspect most drivers would have been suffering a strong attack of the f***-ems by then.

Bottas is continually having his race ruined by a Mercedes strategy which favours Hamilton over Bottas at every race.

[dvdlcs]

From earlier, how to make the racing more interesting:

 

More mechanical grip.

Less aero grip.

Tyres that last the entire race.

Unrestricted use of DRS.

[njee20]

If you can use DRS all the time it's entirely pointless, just do away with it, it's a solution to a problem which shouldn't exist, and I'd argue that driving an aerodynamically compromised car is more dangerous. You used to be able to use it all the time in qualifying, and they dropped that on request of the drivers amid safety fears IIRC.

 

Decent enough race, Mercedes were lucky Ferrari had the problems they did, I feel for Bottas, I'm not sure why Toto back-pedalled after calling him a wingman, he clearly is the second driver, but I'm not sure he could expect anything less, nor should he really be upset or offended by that.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Bottas is continually having his race ruined by a Mercedes strategy which favours Hamilton over Bottas at every race.

 But what would you do differently if running the team? Hamilton is the proven performer, and getting his car over the line first as often as possible is essential in doing the job for the team this season. That's therefore top priority.

 

Bottas still needs some development in his driving to reliably keep up wth Hamilton, but is clearly coming along. He did his work well at the Hungaroring, and got a wounded car home for useful points; I would expect the team management have made it very clear that he did a solid job.

 

Clearly Gasly should get a seat exchange with Verstappen as early as possible. See if the Toro Rosso can handle the teenage treatment, see if Gasly can get the Red Bull in its current configuration to the finish line more frequently.

 

And Ricciardo desperately needs a more competitive car. If he was in the current Ferrari he would be giving Hamilton a real test.

[Andrew P]

To many really good drivers and not enough competitive seats.

 

Lets look at some really good drivers that are held back by the machinery.

 

Obviously Max and Danny, but, they still have a quick Car when it finishes Races.

 

Sainz, will he get a better car than the Renault next year? I doubt it.

 

Gasley, as stated, needs a quicker car to showcase his obvious talent, but where?

 

Ocon, again very good, but held back by the car, would he be competitive in say a Ferrari?

 

Leclerc, very quick, a lot of Race craft and an immense talent that is being wasted at the middle or back of the pack.

 

Magnasen, getting much better and consistent, what would he do in a Merc for example?

 

And lastly, Fred, he has had a torrid time in the McLaren, and things don't look a lot better in the short term.

 

Drivers that are on the outside looking in but getting older by the day, Lando Norris, George Russel, and I'm sure there are other foreign drivers in the same situation, desperate for a good seat.

 

So who should go, Vandorne, Sirotken, Stroll, Grosgien, Ericson?

[Oldddudders]

The Force India situation has hardly helped the driver market. If no buyer is found, then two decent-enough drivers are going spare after the Summer. Team principals will not have overlooked this. 

[Andrew P]

3 Cars per Team?

[EddieB]

My immediate reaction is what would be the picture if Perez and Ocon swapped into the Williams seats. I don’t think Williams is anywhere near as good as Force India, but I’m sure they could score more consistently with a couple of better drivers.

[newbryford]

Having all these drivers to choose from is a dilemma.

If you were principal of a team needing a bit of cash, would you choose a very good driver with limited financial backing, or an OK driver with lots of dosh behind him?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited July 30, 2018 by newbryford

[ess1uk]

Having all these drivers to choose from is a dilemma.

If you were principal of a team needing a bit of cash, would you choose a very good driver with limited financial backing, or an OK driver with lots of dosh behind him?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Depending on how desperate you were for the money.

Up front from a pay driver .

Decent driver and points and wait for any prize money at the end of the year and hope that brings in a sponsor

Tough call

[Oldddudders]

Having all these drivers to choose from is a dilemma.

If you were principal of a team needing a bit of cash, would you choose a very good driver with limited financial backing, or an OK driver with lots of dosh behind him?

 

Cheers,

Mick

Sums it up, really.

[Andrew P]

And there was talk last week that the new man at Ferrari may keep Kimi, so that's another seat with a No Vacancies sign on it.

[Andrew P]

And another one looking for a seat in 19 or 20?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45011157

[Andrew P]

OOOOOOooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/24232894/renault-stopped-listening-christian-horner-years-ago

[Oldddudders]

The Force India thing just gets worse. Small print says that if a team becomes insolvent, it forfeits any right to prize money. Force India currently would expect to get about £150m and this may simply be divided among the other nine if insolvency is proved, which seems likely. 

 

As I suggested earlier in the thread, this makes purchase of the team a deal less likely, as it will not come with a dowry. Only the very rich will be interested. 

[mozzer models]

William Storey is trying to Buy Force India 

[Andrew P]

William Storey is trying to Buy Force India 

 

A very interesting interview, he may not LOOK F1 but seem both passionate and intellectual,  and keen to see Force India succeed.

 

I'd never heard of him, or Rich Energy.

[Mike Storey]

The Force India thing just gets worse. Small print says that if a team becomes insolvent, it forfeits any right to prize money. Force India currently would expect to get about £150m and this may simply be divided among the other nine if insolvency is proved, which seems likely. 

 

As I suggested earlier in the thread, this makes purchase of the team a deal less likely, as it will not come with a dowry. Only the very rich will be interested. 

 

Apparently the rich are very interested.

 

Apart from my namesake (I don't think he is a relation, but maybe we could make it so?), rumours on some of the commentaries is that Stroll Senior is looking to give Stroll Junior a better plaything. Some pundits even suggest he may be the most likely buyer. That could explain McLaren's antipathy at any rate - they not only lose a fully funded, albeit less than talented driver, but face a strengthened team with a major cash injection, albeit with with a less than talented driver.....

[Oldddudders]

Apparently the rich are very interested.

 

Apart from my namesake (I don't think he is a relation, but maybe we could make it so?), rumours on some of the commentaries is that Stroll Senior is looking to give Stroll Junior a better plaything. Some pundits even suggest he may be the most likely buyer. That could explain McLaren's antipathy at any rate - they not only lose a fully funded, albeit less than talented driver, but face a strengthened team with a major cash injection, albeit with with a less than talented driver.....

At the last count, Stroll was believed to be driving for Williams, rather than McLaren?

[Andrew P]

More interesting info on the Force India sale.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/45026461

[Andrew P]

Ricciardo deal, well he had no where else to go, apart from the back of the Grid.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/24250789/daniel-ricciardo-new-deal-definitely-done-spa

[dvdlcs]

3 Cars per Team?

 

This has been considered a few times in the past in order to bump up the number of cars on the grid.

 

There seem to be two main objections:

 

1. Cost - considering the teams aren't even allowed to bring a spare car to the races these days, to bring a third car, 50% more people to service the car, not to mention employing someone to drive said car would probably put this proposal out of reach to all but the biggest teams. Which leads to the second objection:

 

2. With individual teams dominating the sport from time to time (Ferrari then Red Bull then Mercedes in the last 20 years) the prospect of consistent 1-2-3 finishes from the same team was deemed not to be acceptable. Yes, other series (rally, Le Mans) have three car entries, and occasionally one manufacturer scores a 1-2-3, but this wasn't wanted in F1.

 

There have also been proposals that the third driver be someone of limited experience in F1, e.g. giving a 'test' driver race experience but how do you define limited experience? With 20+ races in a season someone could drive for 2 seasons and have nearly 50 F1 race starts under their belt. Doesn't sound like a rookie any more. As a team principal, would you put a rookie driver into a F1 car knowing that by the end of that year they would have had to either prove themselves good enough to replace one of your other drivers, be of sufficient interest to another team (assuming you would be willing to let them race for another), or drop back to a non-racing role?

[njee20]

Re: Force India, Stroll's cash injection into Williams hasn't yielded a miracle performance boost, indeed they're at the lowest ebb for a long time. Given how miserable Stroll is I wouldn't be surprised to see him move, and I suspect that may actually prove beneficial for Williams, short term cash issues aside!

[Andrew P]

This has been considered a few times in the past in order to bump up the number of cars on the grid.

 

There seem to be two main objections:

 

1. Cost - considering the teams aren't even allowed to bring a spare car to the races these days, to bring a third car, 50% more people to service the car, not to mention employing someone to drive said car would probably put this proposal out of reach to all but the biggest teams. Which leads to the second objection:

 

2. With individual teams dominating the sport from time to time (Ferrari then Red Bull then Mercedes in the last 20 years) the prospect of consistent 1-2-3 finishes from the same team was deemed not to be acceptable. Yes, other series (rally, Le Mans) have three car entries, and occasionally one manufacturer scores a 1-2-3, but this wasn't wanted in F1.

 

There have also been proposals that the third driver be someone of limited experience in F1, e.g. giving a 'test' driver race experience but how do you define limited experience? With 20+ races in a season someone could drive for 2 seasons and have nearly 50 F1 race starts under their belt. Doesn't sound like a rookie any more. As a team principal, would you put a rookie driver into a F1 car knowing that by the end of that year they would have had to either prove themselves good enough to replace one of your other drivers, be of sufficient interest to another team (assuming you would be willing to let them race for another), or drop back to a non-racing role?

 

My post was a bit tongue in cheek, and I agree with all your valid points.