Pete the Elaner Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 The cars have developed beyond what the circuit can manage, that's why. Just because a GP has been held there since whenever should not be a criteria for keeping it going if the formula itself has outgrown it. If you wanted to run bigger trains then you'd get the infrastructure changed so it can handle the new stock... Or build a new line... F1 cars need to be able to work on a variety of circuits of which Monaco is one extreme. They must therefore be designed to do so. On that basis, I disagree that they have developed to beyond what the circuit can manage. If you had claimed that without Monaco, F1 car design would be more optimal for faster circuits & as a result we would see better performance at these, then I would definitely agree with you. I stand by my earlier statement that Monaco's publicity & sponsorship generates too much money to be dropped from the calendar, so making the cars work at there will remain one of the compromises designers will continue to complain about. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2018 You're making two separate arguments: - Monaco is too lucrative to drop, which I agree with - the cars are, in part, designed for Monaco, which I disagree with I think Hobby is right and whilst the circuit maintains the glitz and glamour and whatever, the cars have outgrown it. It's 20% shorter than the FIA's "mandatory minimum race distance" because it's so slow. It's not that it's the slowest by a whisker, it's in a whole different league of slowness! It doesn't make for interesting racing. The cars don't really need to be designed to handle Monaco because it's all about mechanical grip. They could do away with most of the aero accouterments and go no slower. The fastest lap in 2017 was less than 6 seconds quicker than in 1985! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) F1 cars need to be able to work on a variety of circuits of which Monaco is one extreme. They must therefore be designed to do so. On that basis, I disagree that they have developed to beyond what the circuit can manage. As I understand it F1 is "motor racing" then I stand by my claim that it's outgrown Monaco. The cars are quite capable of going fast round there, that's not in question, and they are designed for many types of circuit, that is also not in question. What is in question, and the main reason I have said that they have outgrown Monaco is that they find it virtually impossible to overtake if two fairly evenly matched cars are racing round together, and that we have to rely on pit stops to change the order which I feel is unacceptable... Unless F1 has turned into Drag Racing (another type of motor sport) it's time we moved on, but as others have said it's a money spinner, pure and simple... I'd go to watch Heritage F1s round there but they'd have to pay me to go and watch the current F1 cars, and that includes watching it on TV... Edited May 23, 2018 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 What is in question, and the main reason I have said that they have outgrown Monaco is that they find it virtually impossible to overtake if two fairly evenly matched cars are racing round together, and that we have to rely on pit stops to change the order which I feel is unacceptable... Sadly I think this is true of many circuits, with Monaco being the worst culprit. I would far prefer to see passing on the track rather than with pit stop strategies. I am sure I was not the only one to enjoy Ricciardo's passing in China, but this only happened because they changed pit stop strategy when the safety car was deployed. It would have been unlikely if the race had been under green flag conditions the whole time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2018 But there were loads of on track overtakes in China, it's not just about the leaders. It's not uncommon for an entire Monaco GP to take place without an on-track overtake. It is, in the truest sense of the word, a procession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted May 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 23, 2018 Sadly I think this is true of many circuits, with Monaco being the worst culprit. I would far prefer to see passing on the track rather than with pit stop strategies. I am sure I was not the only one to enjoy Ricciardo's passing in China, but this only happened because they changed pit stop strategy when the safety car was deployed. It would have been unlikely if the race had been under green flag conditions the whole time. Right but Monaco is a lot lot lot narrower than China. It's not called "riding your bicycle in your living room" for no reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) What is in question, and the main reason I have said that they have outgrown Monaco is that they find it virtually impossible to overtake if two fairly evenly matched cars are racing round together, and that we have to rely on pit stops to change the order which I feel is unacceptable... TBH, that's the case on most of the circuits, most of the time, and not just confined to Monaco. I think most F1 races would be improved if overtaking were made a bit easier but the problem with that is, if you overdo it, you make outright speed the dominant factor and the finishing order will be the same in nearly every race. John Edited May 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) The cars have developed beyond what the circuit can manage, that's why. Just because a GP has been held there since whenever should not be a criteria for keeping it going if the formula itself has outgrown it. If you wanted to run bigger trains then you'd get the infrastructure changed so it can handle the new stock... Or build a new line... The Monaco GP is an iconic "event" but it ceased to be a real race many years ago. The cars just became too wide to weave their way round one another at the speeds they became capable of sustaining. .Nowadays, passing only happens when somebody crashes, breaks down, goes straight on over a chicane, or makes a badly timed pit stop. Restoring real racing to Monaco would require the cars to be made narrower, or the track wider; neither of which is going to happen. John Edited May 23, 2018 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) So why bother... (Of course its the money... Nothing to do with the fans who want to see real racing... Silly me... ) Edited May 23, 2018 by Hobby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) So why bother... (Of course its the money... Nothing to do with the fans who want to see real racing... Silly me... ) People who want to see real motor racing stopped watching F1 years ago. The only aspect in which it remains the pinnacle of the sport is the amount of money involved. A good start in finding more entertaining stuff is to avoid anything with Formula in the name. John Edited May 24, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Moreover, Max is (for now, at least) off the hook too It wouldn't surprise me to see him win in Monaco, and leapfrog Danny R. Quick Bulls! https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44240863 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Doesn't look like any rain in Monaco over the weekend. It's persisting down here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Doesn't look like any rain in Monaco over the weekend. It's persisting down here. And here, orried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) It's a Bank Holiday Weekend, what were you expecting, bright sun shining down on herds of wildebeest roaming across the village green?! :) Edited May 25, 2018 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 It's a Bank Holiday Weekend, what were you expecting, bright sun shining down on herds of wildebeest roaming across the village green?! :) I attend an annual event in Castle Combe which coincides with Monaco qualifying. The weather alternates each year...warm & dry one year then chucking it down with rain the next. We had a warm one last year so this weekend will be a wet one! Now I've opened my mouth, the weather will stitch me up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Jonboy Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2018 But there were loads of on track overtakes in China, it's not just about the leaders. It's not uncommon for an entire Monaco GP to take place without an on-track overtake. It is, in the truest sense of the word, a procession. Is it just me that’s disappointed channel 4 waste a live view on Monaco, would prefer they keep them for tracks with some overtaking myself and just show highlights of Monaco.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Is it just me that’s disappointed channel 4 waste a live view on Monaco, would prefer they keep them for tracks with some overtaking myself and just show highlights of Monaco.... In the first couple of years of C4, Monaco was highlights, and I was disappointed as I wanted to see it LIVE, now though I do tend to agree with you, and I think it's because we now have such wide cars that all perform at about the same level on a Street Circuit, hence the reason the Bulls were so quick on Thursday. EDIT = Still won't need to worry next year, I won't be seeing ANY. Edited May 26, 2018 by Andrew P 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I think Max wants that corner named after him. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23610369/daniel-ricciardo-quickest-max-verstappen-crashes-final-practice 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2018 I think Max wants that corner named after him. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23610369/daniel-ricciardo-quickest-max-verstappen-crashes-final-practice As a memorial?????? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Please come back, Kayak - that Bose-eyed woman is getting on my nerves! (C4 sponsorship, for those who may be watching other channels). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Leacon Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 You're making two separate arguments: - Monaco is too lucrative to drop, which I agree with - the cars are, in part, designed for Monaco, which I disagree with I think Hobby is right and whilst the circuit maintains the glitz and glamour and whatever, the cars have outgrown it. It's 20% shorter than the FIA's "mandatory minimum race distance" because it's so slow. It's not that it's the slowest by a whisker, it's in a whole different league of slowness! It doesn't make for interesting racing. The cars don't really need to be designed to handle Monaco because it's all about mechanical grip. They could do away with most of the aero accouterments and go no slower. The fastest lap in 2017 was less than 6 seconds quicker than in 1985! Where did you get those fastest lap numbers from Captain? From Wikipedia.... [1985] Pole = Senna 1.20.450 // Race Fastest Lap = Alboreto 1.22.637 [2017] Pole = Raikkonen 1.12.178 // Race Fastest Lap = Perez 1.14.820 In 1985 the New Chicane after the tunnel had not been added yet either, it was a fast left/right flick, although the Swimming Pool section was slower. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) 8, not 6. Good counting on my part. Ricciardo showing great pace today. Shame Max threw it all away for absolutely no reason, again. Edited May 26, 2018 by njee20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Oh dear Max. How much longer will Red Bull forgive before they ditch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Oh dear Max. How much longer will Red Bull forgive before they ditch. Daniel K was ditched, but Max has a newish Contract, although that means nothing to RB, he could have a 3 Month demotion to TR as a punishment for being SILLY. Edited May 26, 2018 by Andrew P 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfsboy Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 All the drivers should be shoved into F3 cars for Monaco .That would liven up boring races. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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