Formula 1 2018

[Oldddudders]

C’mon chaps - if you want to debate recent events in Seth Efrica, please start your own thread.

[Hobby]

Just saying its a common issue across all sports these days... That's all!

[Mike Storey]

Its total nonsense anyway Alfa and Ferrari are both owned by FIAT . For some reason, they still try and pretend they are are seperate companies like many others do in the commercial world.

 

 

The current cars sums up F1's big problem there is no room for any creativity , a huge fuss if someone dares to even attempt to "bend" the rules, or add a new part or shape . The only place for invention is in the engine/gearbox which no ever sees , that is where the big money goes . The rule book is too far to restrictive, as I said before the budgets should be capped before its too late.

 

Its  far too sanitised nowadays,the god awful Halo sums is up , I understand the thinking behind it , but sadly you might as well put a roof on and call it open wheel sportscar  racing. There needs to be a element of danger, otherwise there is  no challenge or excitement for anybody including the drivers.

 

They will probably ban going into the pits during safety cars periods next. Another source of possible entertainment for the watcher to lose. Mercedes will be throwing their handbag about as they lost in the last race.

 

 Get rid of all the electronic controls, go back to  manual gearboxes and small wings, then we might see some racing, not yet another two weekly procession. 

 

I completely get what you are saying. But there are already racing formulae for that - F2, F3, NASCAR, let alone WEC. We might as well watch banger racing, as I used to do for real, until they started shutting all the circuits down in London.

 

Surely the point of F1 is that it has to be leading edge tech combined with the drivers who can best exploit it? Otherwise, how does it differ from any other? I suggest the main problem is that, at each evolution of go-faster tech, improved environmental energy, greater reliability and decreasing the danger to life (all of which have transferable value to road cars eventually, which is a big part of the point of manufacturers' involvement), the problem of providing entertainment through overtaking and wheel to wheel racing (the key to sponsors' and spectators' involvement) gets lost for a while. We have seen this at each stage for several decades, until some drivers and engineers emerge who can work around it, but then the next evolution negates that yet again.

 

There are two aspects currently:

 

a) (nearly) equally fast cars struggle to overtake on track

 

b) there are too many gaps between the fastest and the slowest teams, making the races too predictable

 

Going to the LCD is not the way forward. Finding the right combination of further engineering tweaks (or something more radical if that is what it takes) and a more level playing field on reward (and perhaps to a lesser extent on costs), has to be the way ahead. Plus a superior way to attract spectators (and thus sponsors), if we believe pay-per-view is the death knell for mass popularity. Even the Premier League has partly acknowledged that one.

 

NASCAR is losing audience numbers, if I have remembered reports from last year correctly. That should be a salutary lesson.

[ejstubbs]

...getting back on to the subject of wings, I like the Idea of wings on an F1 car, it's part of the DNA of them since the early 70's

 

Late 60s, actually.  The first appearance of wings on an F1 car was the Lotus 49B at Monaco in 1968.  They'd been used on both sports and open-wheel race cars in the US before that.  The pioneer was, of course, Jim Hall with his Chaparral cars.  The Chaparral 2 had front wings in 1963, to stop the nose lifting.  The 1965 the Chaparral 2C had a low, moveable, rear wing, and a year later the 2E got this monster:

 

 

Jim Clark drove an Indy car in 1967 that had small wings, and was impressed with it.  He asked his team to experiment with a wing on the car that he drove in a race in New Zealand early in 1968 (before his sad and untimely death in an F2 race at Hockenheim in April that year), although it wasn't used in competition.

 

By the time the Belgian GP came along both Brabham and Ferrari had rear wings on their cars.  Lotus responded with a high-level rear wing mounted directly on the rear suspension:

 

 

Matra then went the whole hog and did the same at the front:

 

 

Wings grew ever higher and more spindly until, at the Spanish GP in 1969, the rear wings of both Lotuses collapsed catastrophically, putting first Graham Hill and then Jochen Rindt out of the race:

 

 

(Rindt had already expressed concerns about the structural integrity of the rear wing on his car.)

 

By the next race at Monaco (well, after the first practice session, in fact) the FIA announced that rear wings would be banned.  After a bit more to-ing and fro-ing the rules were clarified to allow front and rear wings, of limited sizes, and with no movable parts.

 

The other innovation in F1 in 1968 was the first use of a full-face helmet, worn at the British GP by Dan Gurney, who had worked with Bell helmets to help develop it (and who had worn one at the Indy 500 earlier in the year).

Edited March 30, 2018 by ejstubbs

[Hobby]

Trouble is that if you let F1 follow the path of "ultimate technology" then you will eventually get driver-less cars, after all that's the ultimate car... Is that what people want?

 

Going back to the suggestions about reducing the reliance of wings, etc., you could argue that you get rid of them, and other technology to make the racing more competitive, you would increase it's spectator benefits, but could it then call itself the "ultimate" motor sport?

 

So there have to be compromises, only question is what...

[micklner]

Formula One, is it actually using the current ultimate technology or simply following the politically correct herd?.

 

It has gone Hybrid ,as its been seen as the way to save the world resources? You could argue what has Hybrid engines to do with ulitimate technology  (I don't know) are they the ultimate?. Yes it saves on oil and pollution , but have either of those reasons anything to do, or are really connected with motor racing as a sport , does it improve the spectacle , make the cars faster ? personally I would say no . What Hybrid has done is increased the huge cost of these cars, and if you didn't know what was propelling them, would you be bothered either way ? It's actually got to the stage where they are talking about trying to make them noisier,  to try and improve the spectacle. 

 

What F1 will sadly end up before long is a inflated version of Formula E , what is that in case anyone doesn't know? . A one make series. They are about as exciting as watching Unigate Milk Floats, going around the circuit. They cant even make them to go a full race distance, needing two cars for each driver and are silent and characterless. 

[Mike Storey]

Formula One, is it actually using the current ultimate technology or simply following the politically correct herd?.

 

It has gone Hybrid ,as its been seen as the way to save the world resources? You could argue what has Hybrid engines to do with ulitimate technology  (I don't know) are they the ultimate?. Yes it saves on oil and pollution , but have either of those reasons anything to do, or are really connected with motor racing as a sport , does it improve the spectacle , make the cars faster ? personally I would say no . What Hybrid has done is increased the huge cost of these cars, and if you didn't know what was propelling them, would you be bothered either way ? It's actually got to the stage where they are talking about trying to make them noisier,  to try and improve the spectacle. 

 

What F1 will sadly end up before long is a inflated version of Formula E , what is that in case anyone doesn't know? . A one make series. They are about as exciting as watching Unigate Milk Floats, going around the circuit. They cant even make them to go a full race distance, needing two cars for each driver and are silent and characterless. 

 

You obviously missed that episode of Father Ted.

[micklner]

Late 60s, actually.  The first appearance of wings on an F1 car was the Lotus 49B at Monaco in 1968.  They'd been used on both sports and open-wheel race cars in the US before that.  The pioneer was, of course, Jim Hall with his Chaparral cars.  The Chaparral 2 had front wings in 1963, to stop the nose lifting.  The 1965 the Chaparral 2C had a low, moveable, rear wing, and a year later the 2E got this monster:

 

 

Jim Clark drove an Indy car in 1967 that had small wings, and was impressed with it.  He asked his team to experiment with a wing on the car that he drove in a race in New Zealand early in 1968 (before his sad and untimely death in an F2 race at Hockenheim in April that year), although it wasn't used in competition.

 

By the time the Belgian GP came along both Brabham and Ferrari had rear wings on their cars.  Lotus responded with a high-level rear wing mounted directly on the rear suspension:

 

 

Matra then went the whole hog and did the same at the front:

 

 

Wings grew ever higher and more spindly until, at the Spanish GP in 1969, the rear wings of both Lotuses collapsed catastrophically, putting first Graham Hill and then Jochen Rindt out of the race:

 

 

(Rindt had already expressed concerns about the structural integrity of the rear wing on his car.)

 

By the next race at Monaco (well, after the first practice session, in fact) the FIA announced that rear wings would be banned.  After a bit more to-ing and fro-ing the rules were clarified to allow front and rear wings, of limited sizes, and with no movable parts.

 

The other innovation in F1 in 1968 was the first use of a full-face helmet, worn at the British GP by Dan Gurney, who had worked with Bell helmets to help develop it (and who had worn one at the Indy 500 earlier in the year).

Colin Chapman was a chancer , his cars were well known for being the minimum weight (or less if he could get away with it !!) and the thin wing supports were part of that ethos. Graham Hill was a very lucky man that day .

[newbryford]

 

 

 

 

What F1 will sadly end up before long is a inflated version of Formula E , what is that in case anyone doesn't know? . A one make series. They are about as exciting as watching Unigate Milk Floats, going around the circuit.

 

This is more exciting than Formula E

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Andrew P]

I went to Donnington Park last Tuesday pm for the Lauch and first test for the BTCC, a really good afternoon.

 

https://doningtonpark.msv.com/DP-18-BTCC-MEDIA-DAY

 

http://www.btcc.net/2018/03/20/2018-season-launch-spectator-information/

 

And it was ALL FREE, 

 

BUT I forgot my camera.

[Zomboid]

The latest set of "ultimate" road cars (Porsche 918, La Ferrari, McLaren P1) all use hybrid technology to provide improved performance (any enhanced mpg is purely coincidental).

It may not be immediately be apparent but F1 engines are one of the most efficient internal combustion engines in terms of energy extracted from fuel, which is ultimately what it's all about. So yes, they do represent the absolute cutting edge of engine technology.

[Hobby]

The latest set of "ultimate" road cars (Porsche 918, La Ferrari, McLaren P1) all use hybrid technology to provide improved performance (any enhanced mpg is purely coincidental).

 

I agree with the second sentence, yes they are currently cutting edge, but I'd debate that one... I think it's more to meet emission regulations ("greenness") than for performance that road going performance cars and F1 have fitted Hybrid Technology, the ability to crow about their "green" credentials as a selling point (to get people to buy the cars or go to watch the racing) rather than any real performance gains.

[Andrew P]

WOW What a start.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/43606264

[Andrew P]

PLEASE change the rules so that WE can win again!  

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23001097/christian-horner-f1-issue-2021-rules-ultimatum

Edited April 2, 2018 by Andrew P

[Hobby]

However they change/simplify the rules the Designers and Engineers will always find a way round them, look at any motorsport, the team/driver will always find some way of making their car slightly better than the rest...

[Andrew P]

Not good news for only their second Race!

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23026175/honda-forced-engine-changes-bahrain-grand-prix

[Mike Storey]

Not good news for only their second Race!

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23026175/honda-forced-engine-changes-bahrain-grand-prix

 

McLaren must be in schadenfreude mode right now......

[Zomboid]

How did they manage to do so well in pre-season testing? Did they steal a Mercedes engine or something?

[Andrew P]

How did they manage to do so well in pre-season testing? Did they steal a Mercedes engine or something?

That's when they wore them ALL out, hahahha      

[Andrew P]

Here  we go.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23053021/lewis-hamilton-hit-five-place-grid-penalty-bahrain

[Zomboid]

Well those are the rules.

Can't say I can really see what good it does to be penalising drivers at race 2, though. Just having a limited number of gearboxes for the season would at least be consistent with the engine regs.

[Andrew P]

Surprise of the day = HONDA  

[alfsboy]

Formula E is in its infancy .A test bed for later things .No-one thinks its perfect but the circuits are cheap and well attended. and proving the theory .The next step coming up are longer life batteries and "proper "circuits .Think of certain F1 circuits that have already  ducked out of F1 and you will be getting there .In twenty years time the F1 we know and sometimes even love will be as relevant as a field of Stanley Steamers..Lets face it  the hybrid engine is  a disaster .Williams are duds ,Haas is so so  ,so ,Sauber is struggling as is Mclaren  etc etc .Its not a great show for the millions asked and paid  and poured into a very few peoples pockets.

Edited April 7, 2018 by alfsboy

[Mike Storey]

Formula E is in its infancy .A test bed for later things .No-one thinks its perfect but the circuits are cheap and well attended. and proving the theory .The next step coming up are longer life batteries and "proper "circuits .Think of certain F1 circuits that have already  ducked out of F1 and you will be getting there .In twenty years time the F1 we know and sometimes even love will be as relevant as a field of Stanley Steamers..Lets face it  the hybrid engine is  a disaster .Williams are duds ,Haas is so so  ,so ,Sauber is struggling as is Mclaren  etc etc .Its not a great show for the millions asked and paid  and poured into a very few peoples pockets.

 

I agree things will be very different in 20 years time.

 

But I have tried to watch Formula E, more than once, and it just leaves me absolutely cold. Lack of noise maybe one reason, probably the main one (the same is said of electric trains leaving many people cold, but at least you get sparks off the shoes or panto, the throb of the Westinghouse pump, the whoosh of the brake cylinders and the general atmosphere of steel wheel smashing onto steel rail, together with the sheer mass of the train) but it is also the mundanity of it all. You get as much atmosphere from a computer simulation.

 

So whether they can make it more exciting, atmospheric, suspenseful or whatever it is that attracts mass audiences, with new circuits, greater unpredictability or special effects, remains to be seen. But, for all its current faults, if F1 goes that way, I'm off.

[great central]

I agree things will be very different in 20 years time.

 

But I have tried to watch Formula E, more than once, and it just leaves me absolutely cold. Lack of noise maybe one reason, probably the main one (the same is said of electric trains leaving many people cold, but at least you get sparks off the shoes or panto, the throb of the Westinghouse pump, the whoosh of the brake cylinders and the general atmosphere of steel wheel smashing onto steel rail, together with the sheer mass of the train) but it is also the mundanity of it all. You get as much atmosphere from a computer simulation.

 

So whether they can make it more exciting, atmospheric, suspenseful or whatever it is that attracts mass audiences, with new circuits, greater unpredictability or special effects, remains to be seen. But, for all its current faults, if F1 goes that way, I'm off.

Only needs a sound chip and some decent speakers

 

Rather like a 5inch gauge (I think) class 50 I saw some years ago. Battery powered with a couple of massive speakers on board

Edited April 7, 2018 by great central