Gareth Collier Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Have to agree. I want to discuss the race but daren't in case there is one member that can't watch it until the next day. It's simple, if you don't want to know the result look away now. If I was going to watch it later I wouldn't start reading this thread before hand and wouldn't expect others to refrain from posting just in case I was foolish enough to look at the thread. Sorry, this is reading like a rant but the solution to those that haven't watched it yet seems obvious to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Streak Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) Caution - Possible spoiler Alert How b****y stupid! No driver should be allowed to gain places in those circumstances... Yet again becoming a joke sport. At least it added some interest to what was going to be a Merc runaway and mixed it up a little, I'm sure normal service will resume next race. As someone who has been a hard core F1 fan since the days of Ronnie Peterson (My boyhood hero), today I was disappointed by modern F1 once again. It was only the Virtual Safety Car reshuffle of the pack that added any interest to the race, and as already stated the teams all get the same rule book. In the past a normal safety car could make or break your race depending on where you may have been when it was sent out. Having watched a series of V8 supercar races (racing for championship points at the AGP for the first time,rather than as a display) all 4 races provided better racing and about 10 times the entertainment as the F1 race. At about 1/10th of the cost. Even Zac Brown from Mclaren seemed to spend more time hanging around the Supercar pits than the the F1 pits. (although he does have shares in the Walkinshaw /Andretti / United Supercar team). Having said all that the 888 , Andretti /Walkinshaw and Penske team battles in Supercars has lifted the spectacle immensely and everyone else has lifted their game accordingly. Sadly F1 was a yawn fest in comparison and I know to where My viewing loyalties are shifting. Edited March 25, 2018 by The Blue Streak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 That was Mercedes' mistake. One assumes all the teams get the same rulebook... I agree, but it's still stupid that someone could be overtaken in that manner... The whole safety car set up is a farce. If we are relying on SC to bunch the cars together then the whole concept is wrong. Unfortunately it's spread to other Motorsports, even Brisca Stock Car racing has the same issues, albeit without the pit lane changes... I think it would be better if the pit lane was closed during SC use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 FIA needs to look at why Cars cant follow another Car, and stop that from happening. Not happy with the result, as has been said, you SHOULD NOT be able to gain an advantage under the Safety Car. Did Kimi smile a little, not sure if it was that or wind, hahah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) One way round the whole "gaining advantage" from a pit stop is to make all of them a "minimum time length" when stationary, one for during "normal" racing and one for during safety car, say 10 secs and 20 secs respectively... We already have such things for penalties so it's proven that it could be done. My view is that the racing should take place on the track, not "off track"... Edited March 25, 2018 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) I agree, but it's still stupid that someone could be overtaken in that manner... The whole safety car set up is a farce. If we are relying on SC to bunch the cars together then the whole concept is wrong. Unfortunately it's spread to other Motorsports, even Brisca Stock Car racing has the same issues, albeit without the pit lane changes... I think it would be better if the pit lane was closed during SC use. Or anyone pitting whilst the SC is in operation should remain there until it is withdrawn............. John Edited March 25, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 That was Mercedes' mistake. One assumes all the teams get the same rulebook... I have seen that said elsewhere but I do not understand what Mercedes could have done differently about it, under SC rules? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 One way round the whole "gaining advantage" from a pit stop is to make all of them a "minimum time length" when stationary, one for during "normal" racing and one for during safety car, say 10 secs and 20 secs respectively... We already have such things for penalties so it's proven that it could be done. My view is that the racing should take place on the track, not "off track"... Its regarded by many as part of the racing as it gives a element of chance e.g Hass disaster x2 plus excitement e.g Verstappen fire when at Benetton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jol Wilkinson Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2018 The rules are the rules. Unfortunately they have "grown" over the years and have become the mish mash they are today. It needs the FIA (and Liberty) to recognise the need to sit down with several clean sheets of paper, some clearly defined objectives as to what they want F1 to be, and start again. Might I suggest a reduction of the impact of aerodynamics, engines that, while fuel and emission efficient are more relevant to todays motoring requirements and suspension systems that don't rely on the tyres for the majority of their movement and skid plates to stop the car from rubbing on the road. Oh, and yes, where the drivers ability has a bigger influence. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2018 I'l bet McLaren are quietly chuffed with their results in Oz. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I'l bet McLaren are quietly chuffed with their results in Oz. Cheers, Mick Lucky and chuffed. Hass / Ferrari Engine helps the Red Team to a win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold StuAllen Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2018 I have seen that said elsewhere but I do not understand what Mercedes could have done differently about it, under SC rules? As far a I understand it from the post race interview with Toto, the problem was in their simulation software. Mercedes had calculated a pit stop under a vsc to take 15 seconds, so before the incident Lewis wasn’t pushing that hard, leaving the gap to Vettel at 12 seconds, no sense in stressing the engine wearing the tyres etc. The plan being when Vettel pits he’ll come out behind Lewis even if there is an incident. The software had a “bug” so the calculation was flawed - they could have pushed harder after Lewis pitted to make the gap smaller - the reality is the mistake had already happened when the vsc was deployed and Lewis couldn’t change it. I supppose it’s easy to say would/could/should in hindsight, I don’t know what the answer is, I think today’s race shows that with cars with similar performance you need more space than to be able to overtake unless you add more artificial aids llike drs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted March 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2018 That was one of the most uneventful race I have ever watched. Boring is not the word I use for this formula of racing. It the technology that makes the cars win. If you was to put one of the drivers into a car that did not have all the technology in, it would not surprise me that would not know what to do. Rant Over. that the last F1 race I shall watch this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) I don't think that's fair. These guys started out in karts which have 2 pedals, a steering wheel and that's about it, and most progressed through most of the formulas before getting an F1 drive. Stick any of them in a 1970s car and they'll still be really flipping quick. They'd get ridiculously fast lap times out of a 1.0l Corsa, or maybe even last year's McLaren. Actually that last one is a bit silly... Edited March 25, 2018 by Zomboid 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Its regarded by many as part of the racing Therein is the problem... It's not, the track is for racing and overtaking, not the pits... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Hass / Ferrari Engine helps the Red Team to a win. Haas was described in one article I read in the run-up to the race as "The Ferrari B Team". There is, of course, nothing at all suspicious about the fact that Magnusson stopped in a place from where his car could safely be recovered, whereas Grosjean abandoned his two laps later in a place which forced the deployment of the VSC, shortly after Ferrari had decided to leave Vettel out in the hope of gaining an advantage later from an incident which required the safety car... You can't help thinking that something a bit funny might have been going on, if you remember Singapore 2008. The main problem (for F1) is that it made the racing on the actual track seem more or less pointless. But then that's been the case far too often in recent years. EDIT: In the interests of clarity, I'd like to state that I am not a Ferrari-hater. For example, IMO Verstappen's penalty for the "leaving the track" overtake on Raikkonen at Austin last year was entirely justifiable. I'm just suggesting that someone of a suspicious mind might be tempted to wonder whether there might have been some collusion between Ferrari and Haas in this particular instance. Edited March 26, 2018 by ejstubbs 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I have seen that said elsewhere but I do not understand what Mercedes could have done differently about it, under SC rules? I agree. How could anyone possibly claim in was a 'mistake' by Mercedes? Letting Ferrari pit first to gain with the undercut would have been a mistake. They blocked this then a SC messed with their strategy. Maybe the time lost by running at VSC/SC speeds compared with normal racing should be calculated & added to the pit stop, either by ensuring teams add this as a stopped 'hands-off' period like or a 5 second penalty, or they enforce a stop at the end of the pit lane. They must have all the data & technology to do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Roughly what I said earlier, but I took it a stage further, lets have set length stops (dependant on whether its normal racing or safety car conditions) to stop this reliance on pit stops to overtake. I don't have a problem with pit stops to change tyres or even refuel but I do have a problem when they are used to overtake other cars. That, in my view, is not motor racing, though unfortunately in others eyes it is. Edited March 26, 2018 by Hobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I'l bet McLaren are quietly chuffed with their results in Oz. Cheers, Mick Plus dumping Honda. Torro Rosso result one last, other blew up !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) I agree. How could anyone possibly claim in was a 'mistake' by Mercedes? Well, Mercedes themselves said they'd made a mistake. I think the point was that they told Hamilton how fast he needed to go under the VSC to be safe from Vettel gaining an advantage by pitting, and they over-estimated how long a pit stop would take under the VSC. Hamilton could have driven faster and still been within the VSC speed limit, but the team's calculations indicated that he didn't need to so they opted to reduce the risk of unnecessary stress on the car instead. Edited March 26, 2018 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Well at least they know they've not stressed the engine... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Glad i didn't waste two hours of my life watching the whole race. After an uneventful start i just fast forward to the last lap on catch-up. I can't see anyone in their right mind wanting to pay for this. Boring doesn't come close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Davis Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 My reduced rate subscription to Sky expires soon so this is the last pay to view race I will watch, the wife asked if I wanted to renew the subscription even though it would be the full price. I declined the offer, the race on Sunday was boring beyond measure and won because of loopholes in the rules and not because of driver merit. I can't see anything changing in the forseeable future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Well at least they know they've not stressed the engine... With the lunacy of only 3 for the whole season it may yet pay off... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) I don't think that's fair. These guys started out in karts which have 2 pedals, a steering wheel and that's about it, and most progressed through most of the formulas before getting an F1 drive. Stick any of them in a 1970s car and they'll still be really flipping quick. They'd get ridiculously fast lap times out of a 1.0l Corsa, or maybe even last year's McLaren. Actually that last one is a bit silly... When I was racing Karts one of the other (young) drivers but in a different class of Kart was David Coulthard. He was very good... Two pedals, no clutch (if you stalled it during the race you had to get out, pick up the rear of the Kart, start running drop it to bump start it and then get in it before it drove off by itself)! My best engine was a Parilla, single cylinder, 100cc - revved to 17K! It was like a hand grenade. 75mph and a quarter inch between your ass and the pavement.... Best, Pete. Edited March 26, 2018 by trisonic 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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