Starting again

[Garyw1960]

Hi from  Cloudy Norfolk. 

 

Quick question ..probably no definitive answer.....Analogue or straight to DCC, I have asked the same question on another forum. 

 

I have much track from a previous excursion into track building , I have the chance to buy "the Anglian" Hornby set unused for £50 with its usual accessories and a track pack "A".

 

Kind regards

 

Gary

[The Johnster]

You will have responses from fans of both; I am a confirmed DC man as I am a Luddite who does not understand the full implications of DCC, also a poor pensioner (cue violins).  My view is that you need to consider the sort of layout you are ultimately going to have; the bigger the layout and the larger the stud of locomotives, the more DCC is advantaged.  And of course it allows for sound, lighting, and other things; I am happy making chuff chuff noises and my girlfriend has concerns for my sanity...

 

Some of the claimed advantages of DCC are illusory; for instance much is made of the apparent simplicity of wiring.  It is true that you do not need isolating sections on which to park locos or perform some shunting movements, which means that there is no need for the associated wiring and switches/relays, and DCC lends itself to automatic route setting which can incorporate signalling as well, but you still have to wire up for live frogs if you are using them, and much extra complication is involved in the loco chips, which are a whole subject in themselves and one I cannot advise you on, so the simplicity of layout wiring is replaced by complication in locomotive wiring, and the more locos you have the more so this becomes apparent.  Some older locos are difficult to put chips in, not being designed for them, and reliability may be an issue with some chips if they overheat due to being shoehorned into tight holes aboard locos (this is more of a problem with steam outline models, but some smaller diesels are prone to it as well).  Plenty about this on the DCC threads (I imagine).

 

DC is a well tried and tested method of controlling a railway, but needs a good deal of understanding of 12 volt DC electrics as applied to model railways, which is very different to car electrics because of the need to reverse polarities so that trains can run in both direction.  Again, the size and complexity of your proposed layout will affect your decision, and every joint you make, soldered, crimped, or terminal block, is a potential weakness and source of failure.

 

To sum up, both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but DCC is clearly the future and will become more affordable and reliable over time. but we are not quite there yet.  Cost is a factor; DCC is more expensive than DC overall but a complex DC system adds up to a good bit of moolah with good quality components and switches being vital.  

 

The choice will be yours, but I would advise you to make it now, as you are starting.  It will be influenced by your budget, the size and complexity of the proposed layout, and the number of locos you will have (by the way, this always turns out to be about 3x the number you thought you were going to have!).  Welcome back, keep asking questions, and, most importantly, HAVE FUN!!!

[Dave John]

Hmm, all of The Johnsters advice is good, but the wheel has turned full circle. The early model railways had power on board; the energy to run them was stored in a wound up spring. Then along came various forms of electric power and control with finally DCC. But quite a few folk are experimenting with power on board systems which use rechargeable batteries and radio control. 

 

Have a read at Corbs thread, you can see that it does work and has enormous potential. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82465-corbs-cobbling-something-fishy/page-10

 

If you search online you will see that not only individuals but some companies are working on this, but it is in its early stages.

 

So I would hesitate to give advice, but if I was starting out from new I would ask myself whether the investment in DCC with the potential for power on board to replace both DC and DCC in the coming years was a good idea, or whether to stay with DC in the meantime and see how things develop. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Gary,

 

Welcome, and what's your experience like in 12V model railway, or similar such as slot car? The reason for asking is that DCC is an addition to 12V DC locomotives: to get the best from DCC you first need to be able to make 12V DC models run well. (Analogous to first learn to walk, then learn to run.)

 

DCC has much to offer in customisable fully independent control with potential for automation among much else; simplification of track power supply is secondary. Prices are not going to come down significantly in my opinion, DCC is fully mature having been available over twenty five years by now.

 

There are various implementations of wireless control and rechargeable on board power emerging, though an obvious winner has yet to become evident. (DCC has become the dominant system for track power 'command control' systems from an initial field of several different offerings: if interested in wireless control it will be worth waiting for 'The winner' as that is what brings prices down and increases the feature set.)

[Garyw1960]

Gary,

 

Welcome, and what's your experience like in 12V model railway, or similar such as slot car? The reason for asking is that DCC is an addition to 12V DC locomotives: to get the best from DCC you first need to be able to make 12V DC models run well. (Analogous to first learn to walk, then learn to run.)

 

DCC has much to offer in customisable fully independent control with potential for automation among much else; simplification of track power supply is secondary. Prices are not going to come down significantly in my opinion, DCC is fully mature having been available over twenty five years by now.

 

There are various implementations of wireless control and rechargeable on board power emerging, though an obvious winner has yet to become evident. (DCC has become the dominant system for track power 'command control' systems from an initial field of several different offerings: if interested in wireless control it will be worth waiting for 'The winner' as that is what brings prices down and increases the feature set.)

 

Quite familiar with getting the mabuchi style motor working to its full potential, experience in 12v railways....NIL.  

 

Experience of landscaping and model making, quite a bit.

 

My original aim was to produce a representation of Great Yarmouth Beach Station in the fifties. I was born and lived 100 yards from the ticket office in 1960, got all the plans have a real memory for the platforms and ticket office having played there when it went into disuse.  The area was enormous so there would be some compromise.  I would like some form of loop to run passenger rakes that disappear behind a board whilst being able to manouvre the shunters in the coal yards at the same time.  A very basic description of a mammoth task no doubt.

 

 

 

 

Gary

Edited December 24, 2017 by Garyw1960

[rob D2]

Dcc is easy. The biggest frustration is getting some of the manufacturers bodies off to put the chip in, of course a fair few cone with those.

 

Use insulfrog or the new unifrog points if you don’t want to wire frogs. I’ve used the former with brass rod to push points for 12 years with no problems.

[Kris]

Personally I would go DCC if I were starting from scratch. I have slowly been converting my fleet of loco's, as and when. The finesse of the control is better, but as has been said, it does not significantly reduce the wiring and good track is a must whether DC or DCC. 

[ELTEL]

Gary

 

A couple of advantages of DCC are that you are only driving the locomotive, which means you can leave a locomotive anywhere and not be tied by just isolated sections.

 

The other obvious adavantage of DCC is the fitting of both sound and lights is possible which stay active even when stationary.

 

Yes it is more expensive and my stock has been built of a number of years.

 

So for me DCC every time if it is affordable.

 

At my local club Stafford it’s about 50/50 DCC to Analogue (DC)

 

Happy Modelling

 

Eltel

[Andy Hayter]

Well I am a confirmed DC man, but if I were starting today I would go DCC.

 

Too late for me to convert all of my stock on time and cost grounds (40+ years of accumulated stock)

 

The "advantages" of DCC that I see are:

1.  You can stop a loco anywhere without the need to isolate it electrically.  Now I am a firm believer that you can do just as well with isolation sections if you spend time thinking about how the layout will be used and plan the electrics accordingly.   DCC avoids this planning step.

2.  You can control sound (an advantage with mixed blessings depending on your view) as well as steam/smoke from steam locos and diesels.  While the steam generators are not perfect they are coming on in leaps and bounds.

3.  You can have train lighting independent of a locomotive being powered - or even present.

 

And finally a recent poll here showed that 60% of those who answered were using DCC.  This is a trend that will only continue until the dinosaurs like me die out and everyone is using DCC except for a very few "museum" style layouts (a bit like the clockwork or three rail layouts that you sometimes see at exhibitions.)

 

The time will come where a fitted chip will be standard in any rtr item and not wanting one will be like trying to buy a new car without airbags.