Rare or Collectable Hornby 00 Models

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I think the rarest Hornby loco must be the LNER J6 0-6-0, so rare, I've never found one..................

 

manna

[Coldgunner]

I have a couple which I think may be collectable, or at least in my opinion they are!

60052 Prince Palatine - I think this one came in an M&S set, I picked mine up secondhand from a certain youtuber, still one of my favourites in the collection.
103/502 Black Flying Scotsman - one of the original run of 500, its a nice model.

73050 - BRM LE model with nameplates, one of my favourites (albeit Bachmann not Hornby)

4491 Commonwealth of Australia - picked this up new for £80 from the Hornby stand (Warley or Al Pal, can't recall). Think this is a little unusual now, considering its detailing faults.

Finally the LNER O6 7675

[robmcg]

I have a couple which I think may be collectable, or at least in my opinion they are!

 

60052 Prince Palatine - I think this one came in an M&S set, I picked mine up secondhand from a certain youtuber, still one of my favourites in the collection.

103/502 Black Flying Scotsman - one of the original run of 500, its a nice model.

73050 - BRM LE model with nameplates, one of my favourites (albeit Bachmann not Hornby)

4491 Commonwealth of Australia - picked this up new for £80 from the Hornby stand (Warley or Al Pal, can't recall). Think this is a little unusual now, considering its detailing faults.

Finally the LNER O6 7675

 

Nice choices, including the Bachmann 73050, A3 60052 has a nice presence, redolent of the Great Central main line with 'The Master Cutler', and 103/502 in wartime black I think is truly superb.

 

I think it just brings home how subjective things are, I have always loved the Great Central and its atmosphere whether the London Extension or the Midlands industrial 'feel', and with Bachmann now doing SECR Birdcages to perhaps suit the Hornby SECR H 0-4-4T  I'm going to have to resist that new pre-grouping beauty D11/1 'Mons' and wonder if a C4 will be made RTR before I'm 100!   

 

Don't mention Brighton Atlantics!

 

 

confession;  I am basically stuck with being SR... Guildford,  it's like football teams, you can't change your blood-type!

[robmcg]

I made Padstow rarer, by renaming one Along with a number of other Hornby Ltd Editions   

 

This really does open a can of worms, there are superbly weathered rebuilt West Country Light Pacifics around on various sites, and one has to decide whether it is better to buy one at a good price, or find a pristine version and weather it yourself or pay someone to do it....  

 

I tried to solve this whole conundrum buy selling off my entire collection of rebuilt West Country/BoBs, and have sold many at what I admit are nice prices, but now wish sometimes I hadn't. I sold many original Spam Cans too, but some of them are just TOO nice to exchange for mere cash...!

 

Mind you, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that Duchess R2444 'City of Carlisle' was rare, and I checked my spare room and the first thing I saw was an R2444 in lovely lightly-weathered detailed condition, at the front of my 'must photograph that soon' section ....  life does include nice surprises sometimes!  I bought it about a year ago and have forgotten the details but it was probably about 80 quid. It also includes a weathered 28XX and a D11/1,  both the latter being common as muck but have a certain something which makes me just simply like them.

 

Now there is a rumour that SECR Bircage carriages are in short supply, with some shops not getting as many as they have ordered, and one has to wonder whether this is for real or just a supply glitch. 

[Coldgunner]

Nice choices, including the Bachmann 73050, A3 60052 has a nice presence, redolent of the Great Central main line with 'The Master Cutler', and 103/502 in wartime black I think is truly superb.

 

I think it just brings home how subjective things are, I have always loved the Great Central and its atmosphere whether the London Extension or the Midlands industrial 'feel', and with Bachmann now doing SECR Birdcages to perhaps suit the Hornby SECR H 0-4-4T  I'm going to have to resist that new pre-grouping beauty D11/1 'Mons' and wonder if a C4 will be made RTR before I'm 100! 

 

Don't mention Brighton Atlantics!

 

 

confession;  I am basically stuck with being SR... Guildford,  it's like football teams, you can't change your blood-type!

 

I didn't add my Bachmann stuff due it it being the Hornby section, but add to that:

 

60532 in apple green (collectors club release)

DELTIC

SECR C Class 592, which I bought new after release for about £70 something. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[robmcg]

I didn't add my Bachmann stuff due it it being the Hornby section, but add to that:

 

60532 in apple green (collectors club release)

DELTIC

SECR C Class 592, which I bought new after release for about £70 something. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

I'll give you 80 quid cash today for the C.  Can't say fairer than that, guv'nor. 

[SRman]

I pre-ordered each of those SECR C class variations, because they fitted with my pre-grouping southern area anyway, not for any collectability reasons.




I also got this for nostalgic reasons with a little bit of collectability in mind as well. It doesn't necessarily have to be valuable to be collectable.

[robmcg]

It's way off-thread but would the SECR Birdcage carriages suit those C class engines?

[Anglian]

The C Class is a goods engine. I've no idea if they were ever used on passenger trains or moving empty stock but a Kentish coal train is probably more typical of the day-to-day work of a C Class.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There's a lovely aerofilms pic of the summer hop-picker's specials showing C's on passenger stock, so fill your boots. With beer and trains if so inclined.

[adb968008]

I think the all time record holder for most valuable ready to run loco is 60008 Dwight D Eisenhower, BR Green, late crest as produced exclusively sold via Walthers in the US as a limited edition of 150(or 125 I think), way back in the early 1990’s.

Limited editions were still a relatively new idea, and runs of steam locos were still 3-5000, Lima produced its first 550 (50008) and later 850 versions, which was seen as unbelievably limited... though after 20 odd of them, they started sticking on shelves much like everything else.

 

Upon release, the rare few that made it to the UK, back in the days before the internet, ebay and no UK advertising fetched in excess of £650. I imported 6 of these from Walthers in the early 90’s and sold all except 1, which i parted with in 2013.

 

Funny thing is word got round when Bachmann did 60008 in early crest, blue and LNER blue at I think at an increased size of 250... no one would touch them for toffee, though they did sell at around £250 rrp though at this point there was more in the UK than the US.

 

20 years on, with internet, ebay, DCC and several duplicated releases later you can now pick them all up for circa £100.

Some people lost big money on these.

 

That said those early A4’s you can visibly see the sharper detail on the bodies and tender, which following however many thousands of A4’s produced since are starting to look a little blurry on the once sharp tooling corners.

 

For rarity without value, an unproduced model must be the holy grail.. I have a black Lima warship, planned as a limited edition in the early 90’s when D832 was painted that colour for a gala. The model never went into production, and the 4 paint samples were sold off.

 

My early life experience in the model rail retail trade, followed by my dissertation and work experience with a few model manufacturers, plus my father who was a sales rep for one, taught me, which I subsequently went on to do my Business degree dissertation in, lead me to conclude limited editions are for Christmas not for life and there’s no long term value in models, they all depreciate.

 

However as a business it’s not the easiest industry to work in, but there is a living. The result was a degree and I learned the only way to make money was in IT...so I moved to California (and acquired said A4’s) to pay for those university studies. Funny thing is going full circle, my first job with my employer was 6 weeks in Seattle to write some code for a bookshop, called Amazon that was moving online. That same code still funds my hobby today used in dozens of companies, and is using an algorithm using station names from the WCML and Manchester-Bury line in variables to help me with the sort orders, routing and capacity... I put railways to use at work so it wasn’t all lost.

 

I have a mass collection of locos I know will slowly depreciate, but it’s fun and that’s the only way I view any loco..not as a £ sign. My personal criteria when I sell is.. “Do I want it ?”, “Is it a sod ?” Or “it’s just left over bits”.

Edited December 21, 2017 by adb968008

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...there’s no long term value in models, they all depreciate...

 Should only be required to be printed on the boxes by law as a 'government wealth warning'. With the caveat 'In exceptional circumstances the last surviving example may attract a spectacular amount of cash from someone with more money than sense, but don't bet the farm on this'.

[Forester]

A

 

There's a lovely aerofilms pic of the summer hop-picker's specials showing C's on passenger stock, so fill your boots. With beer and trains if so inclined.

 

Ah! Hop-Picker's Specials.

 

Reminiscent of the SECR on so many levels, and not talking polished brass here...

A "C" would be far too good for one.

[robmcg]

....

 

I have a mass collection of locos I know will slowly depreciate, but it’s fun and that’s the only way I view any loco..not as a £ sign. My personal criteria when I sell is.. “Do I want it ?”, “Is it a sod ?” Or “it’s just left over bits”.

 

I too have many models and the criteria for purchase is, 'is it a good example of modelling' as well as 'do I like it', and manufacturers of RTR 00 continue to fulfill these criteria.  Sometimes the rarity of a model makes the process of buying more fun, but profit or appreciation is neither expected nor required. 

 

Basically a modern RTR 00 model of a steam locomotive , a well done one that is, is a veritable work of art and a joy to behold, in my opinion, 

[The Johnster]

The C Class is a goods engine. I've no idea if they were ever used on passenger trains or moving empty stock but a Kentish coal train is probably more typical of the day-to-day work of a C Class.

 

The C class is indeed a 'goods' engine in the way that that term was generally understood in the Victorian era and before the First World War; in between a passenger loco and a mineral loco, the former having larger driving wheels and a leading bogie or pony truck, and the latter having smaller wheels and, usually, no vacuum or air brake.  The GWR 'Dean Goods', LSWR 'Ilfracombe Goods',  and many other 0-6-0s of the period were similar in size and intended traffic to the C, the SECR's rather elegant and well finished take on what was a more or less standard British loco of the day.  Such engines existed on pretty much all the main line railways and were frequently used on passenger trains.

 

This 'general work' role was what they were designed for despite being referred to as 'goods' engines, and, as the locos were fitted with vacuum or air train brakes; they were thus inevitably used for semi-fast, excursion, and relief passenger work, the forerunners of the 'mixed traffic' locos of later in the 20th century, and although the term would have been unknown when they were built, they may legitimately be regarded in that light.  Such use probably increased over time as the supply of cascaded mid-Victorian singles and 2-4-0s dried up.  

 

Kentish coal trains were not hauled by 'mineral' engines because the traffic was not heavy enough to warrant such specialist designs, and the Cs certainly hauled their share of them, but were equally likely to turn up on such passenger work as is outlined above; the driving wheel size would have given them a reasonable turn of speed, up to about 50mph which was by no means too slow for a lot of ordinary traffic in those days, and with inside cylinders and a low pitched boiler the ride, while perhaps a bit lively, would not have been unacceptable.  Hop pickers' specials would have been grist to their mill for most of their working lives.

[adb968008]

The C class is indeed a 'goods' engine in the way that that term was generally understood in the Victorian era and before the First World War; in between a passenger loco and a mineral loco, the former having larger driving wheels and a leading bogie or pony truck, and the latter having smaller wheels and, usually, no vacuum or air brake. The GWR 'Dean Goods', LSWR 'Ilfracombe Goods', and many other 0-6-0s of the period were similar in size and intended traffic to the C, the SECR's rather elegant and well finished take on what was a more or less standard British loco of the day. Such engines existed on pretty much all the main line railways and were frequently used on passenger trains.

 

This 'general work' role was what they were designed for despite being referred to as 'goods' engines, and, as the locos were fitted with vacuum or air train brakes; they were thus inevitably used for semi-fast, excursion, and relief passenger work, the forerunners of the 'mixed traffic' locos of later in the 20th century, and although the term would have been unknown when they were built, they may legitimately be regarded in that light. Such use probably increased over time as the supply of cascaded mid-Victorian singles and 2-4-0s dried up.

 

Kentish coal trains were not hauled by 'mineral' engines because the traffic was not heavy enough to warrant such specialist designs, and the Cs certainly hauled their share of them, but were equally likely to turn up on such passenger work as is outlined above; the driving wheel size would have given them a reasonable turn of speed, up to about 50mph which was by no means too slow for a lot of ordinary traffic in those days, and with inside cylinders and a low pitched boiler the ride, while perhaps a bit lively, would not have been unacceptable. Hop pickers' specials would have been grist to their mill for most of their working lives.

Picture of a hop pickers special, with C class and birdcages at London Bridge here, half way down the page...

 

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/cclass_01.html

 

So for the uneducated, what’s a hop picker and why are they needing a special ?

 

As for 592 though, isn’t it’s livery a “Bluebell special”, like “Birch Grove” and it’s variant of LBSC livery ?

Edited December 21, 2017 by adb968008

[robmcg]

Picture of a hop pickers special, with C class and birdcages at London Bridge here, half way down the page...

 

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/cclass_01.html

 

So for the uneducated, what’s a hop picker and why are they needing a special ?

 

As for 592 though, isn’t it’s livery a “Bluebell special”, like “Birch Grove” and it’s variant of LBSC livery ?

 

That'll be from back in the day when food was grown in Kent and beer was brewed from hops.  Ancient history, no longer taught in school.  Let alone picking crops by hand for a few shillings a day...   would've been a great day out for many Londoners.

 

I think wide scale growing of food in the UK ceased sometime after 1947 and became unfashionable....  my book of lineside features of all the main British routes published in 1947 was full of descriptions of intensive agriculture, it sounded quite nice, if you ignored the rationing, the housing, the work conditions, the smoke,  and so on.

[Steamysandy]

That'll be from back in the day when food was grown in Kent and beer was brewed from hops.  Ancient history, no longer taught in school.  Let alone picking crops by hand for a few shillings a day...   would've been a great day out for many Londoners.

 

I think wide scale growing of food in the UK ceased sometime after 1947 and became unfashionable....  my book of lineside features of all the main British routes published in 1947 was full of descriptions of intensive agriculture, it sounded quite nice, if you ignored the rationing, the housing, the work conditions, the smoke,  and so on.

As the son of a Farm worker I saw it first hand and it was no picnic.Tied houses meant you were stuck unless you could find a better situation.My father eventually found something better but it was as a forester on a private estate.

My memories of one farm is of no electricity and mice being caught regularly but the East Coast Mainline was just across the road!

[Tarnish1]

There are a few models connected to Hornby Dublo where some prototypes might exist. I know a "master" was made of the Duchess of Atholl in 1938 with a single chimney. Were any others made before WW2 when Hornby went into munitions? Also at the latter end of Hornby Dublo, a Gresley V2 was planned. Were any made?

 

Are there any more rarities around I wonder?

 

Thanks

[sandwich station]

I think wide scale growing of food in the UK ceased sometime after 1947 and became unfashionable....  my book of lineside features of all the main British routes published in 1947 was full of descriptions of intensive agriculture, it sounded quite nice, if you ignored the rationing, the housing, the work conditions, the smoke,  and so on.

Kent was full of farms when I lived there during the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's producing crops.

[Forester]

Picture of a hop pickers special, with C class and birdcages at London Bridge here, half way down the page...

 

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/cclass_01.html

 

So for the uneducated, what’s a hop picker and why are they needing a special ?

 

As for 592 though, isn’t it’s livery a “Bluebell special”, like “Birch Grove” and it’s variant of LBSC livery ?

 

Hop picking was treated as a sort of paid summer holiday by the EastEnders. They would come from London with their families in huge numbers by train to the large Kent hop gardens when the season started in August. The farmers would provide temporary accomodation in wood huts or similar.

 

Pickers would be allocated a hut, a sort of large collapsable canvas bin (forgotten what it was called), baskets for use by individual pickers and a patch of hops to work each day. They were paid by the bushel of hops picked. Children were expected to join in but were usually let off as the day wore on and then went off to make various sorts of mischief you wouldn't to know about in the surrounding woods.Families would book a week or two, often every year, sometimes passed down the generations.

 

The attraction was that it was very sociable work, Families would meet up every year. They were paid cash and there were plenty of pubs to spend it in and plenty of entertainment after work, usually home-made. It was thought to be good for the kids to get out into the countryside, although what the hops did to their lungs can only be guessed at.

 

I only did it once as a kid - and I can tell you it was a complete education, socially!

 

But it was absolutely filthy work. Your skin got black from the pollen and the smell was everywhere. Hence for the train ride home at the end of the season only the oldest coaches were provided by the railway.

 

They were certainly Specials - but not the sort frequented by the RCTS!

[The Johnster]

We have veered into social history, and the reason that state school summer holidays are so long; there was a time when schoolchildren were an essential part of the labour force when crops had to be harvested manually (not just hops, either) in a sort of 'all hands to the pump' approach, something still common in my own childhood in the 50s and early 60s though as a middle class city boy I was not roped in!  The children were not employed on heavy work, but had plenty to do just the same.  The term 'small beer' dates from these days, watered down ale that the children were allowed to drink because it was healthier than most fresh water supplies available out in the fields.

 

In the days before an efficient world trade system guaranteed a constant supply of food of any sort, and of course during the world wars when imports were restricted and liable to be sunk by U boats, a good harvest was very important to the economic, and actual, well being of the nation, even more important than childrens' education.  Back in medieval times there were proper famines and mass deaths from starvation if a harvest failed; wars were put on hold at harvest time because the troops (mostly farmers or farm labourers themselves themselves) were needed to bring it in; military campaigns were based to some extent on using the summer 'fighting season' to invade your enemies' farms and harvest them for your own use, denying them to him.  'Scorched earth' is a very effective defensive tactic in this sense; the Russians used it very well against the Germans in the 'Great Patriotic War', but it has a much older history.  The Welsh used it against the English for over 2 centuries after the Norman invasion, driving sheep and cattle over the mountains to keep them out of the hands of the 'diawl saes'.  Edward 1's successful campaign was founded on the capture of Anglesey, depriving the Gwynedd Welsh of their main source of food, and his employment of foresters to fell trees alongside the invasion roads, so that we were denied cover for archers to harry and ambush the English.

 

I now claim the gold medal in the 2017 'Off Topic' competition in the 'slightly interesting trivia' event.

[daftbovine]

I have to admit that I am very influenced by appearance and colour when buying locos and generally only buy those that appeal to me in some way.

 

It is very satisfying to find out that some of them have become collectible.

Edited December 24, 2017 by daftbovine

[vitalspark]

Having been looking for a Clan, I would say that they are definitely in the "look rare" category

 

Jim 

 

 

Was there not an issue with the tooling for the Clan..as in it was lost or damaged?

 

Would certainly make sense because it wasn't a limited edition and as one of the best models they produced a big surprise when it was 'dropped'

 

Dave. 

[robmcg]

Was there not an issue with the tooling for the Clan..as in it was lost or damaged?

 

Would certainly make sense because it wasn't a limited edition and as one of the best models they produced a big surprise when it was 'dropped'

 

Dave. 

 

I don't know if the tooling was damaged or lost, but Clans are  much prized by those who own one. Brilliant model.

 

 

or, if you like them pristine ex-Crewe...

 

 

pictures edited.

 

edit; what superb, stupendous RTR 00 art!  (In my humble opinion)

 

cheers

Edited December 24, 2017 by robmcg