RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2017 I'm just finishing a lash-up of a BR Banana Van using an old HD body on a new chassis. I've had a search around for details of the yellow spot size but haven't found anything yet. The only reference I have seen was 18" but that seems too large for the available space.. Can anyone out there tell me the actual size please? Thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 12, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2017 A supplementary question on Diagram 1/246. These didn't have steam heating themselves, but were they fitted with through steam pipes for running with older 'Steam Bananas' or had heating of banana vans been abandoned by the time they were built in 1959/60? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2017 I have an idea the yellow spots were the same size as the blue ones on the insulfish vans, which may be of some help to you. The spots used on some wagons for 'circuit' working were the same size as well IIRC but I am happy to be corrected on this. Can't answer about the steam heating, sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOCJACOB Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Above might be helpful as the Bluespots were 15 inches diameter according to one source I've looked at but also seen 18 inches too! Ought to know just done a Bluespot at Ludborough. Why not ask some of the other preservation chaps. Pretty sure one at SRPS Bo'ness with nice yellow spot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 13, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) I thought 15" but the only reference I could find was 18". I tried marking that size on but it looked all wrong. Edited December 13, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2017 I thought 15" but the only reference I could find was 18". I tried marking that size on but it looked all wrong. Hi Eric Have you had a butchers at Paul Bartlett's photos. It should be possible to size the dot from them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 13, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2017 Good evening Clive, Back in the railway room tonight I have had another look at Paul's pictures and using the dimensions from the 1/246 diagram on the Barrowmore website gives me about 14.5" allowing for the angles of the shots and my eyesight. Given that figure and the previous comments it looks like my original feeling of it being 15" was OK. Eric 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 13, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2017 15" sounds about right. I should know, having worked banana trains from Barry Dock, but it was a long time ago and it has fallen through the holes in the swiss cheese my brain is made out of these days. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2017 there was another thread recently which mentioned that the heating of banana vans stopped sometime in the '60s. I'll have to have a look and see if I can find it though! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2017 Is this the thread you were thinking of Keefer? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128969-would-shunters-have-steam-heating-pipes/ Link is in my post #10 Hope that helps Eric And to encourage things along I give you this from my good friend Brian Thomas... Is that a 1/246? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) Found it, it in was 'Would shunters have steam pipes'. In post #10, Phil Bullock provided a link which stated that steam heating of banana trains ended in 1963: https://ribblesteam.wordpress.com/2015/03/06/bananas-by-rail/ EDIT: oops, you beat me to it Phil Edited December 14, 2017 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2017 Welcome, Keefer - Content isn't always in the most logical thread is it! Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just glad one of us found it Phil, it would've done my head in! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 14, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2017 Is this the thread you were thinking of Keefer? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128969-would-shunters-have-steam-heating-pipes/ Link is in my post #10 Hope that helps Eric And to encourage things along I give you this from my good friend Brian Thomas... 290 (2).jpg Is that a 1/246? Phil Thanks for the link Phil. It looks as if mine could have been built with a through pipe then removed afterwards. Those in the picture are the 1/246, built 1959/60. They were based on the 10-ft wheelbase Fruit Van without the side and end ventilators Eric 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2017 Thanks Eric As only the first few wagons are visible I wonder if this is a banana train or merely our South Wales friends using them as a fitted head on something else? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Is this the thread you were thinking of Keefer? http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/128969-would-shunters-have-steam-heating-pipes/ Link is in my post #10 Hope that helps Eric And to encourage things along I give you this from my good friend Brian Thomas... 290 (2).jpg Is that a 1/246? Phil Nice one Phil. Can you fill me in with any further bit info on the photo, please ? i.e. date, locos, ? . I have several vans 'to do' for "Twll Cach" which will alternate between 'banana' workings ex-Barry Docks and as 'tadpoles' for fitted head use. . I don't recall the 'Tadpoles' straying east of STJ, but there is a 'prototype for everything' and I stand to be educated. . Thanks in advance. . Brian R . PS The attached shows banana vans in use as 'fitted head - Tadpoles' at Pengam Junction, August 1972. I appreciate the 'fitted head' is at the rear of the train ! - which is a Llantrisant - Cardiff Docks iron ore working behind Canton's 6990 that has come up the SWML and has just reversed at Pengam in order to reach the BSC East Moors steel works via Tidal Sidings, which is but a mile or so run unfitted. . Now, Llantrisant maintained several rakes of 'Tadpoles' at this time................one wonders if they could have been used on the Llantrisant - Kingswinford 'Pensnett' coke hoppers circuit via Abbotswood Junction ? Edited December 15, 2017 by br2975 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I have a 1967 Freight Train Loads Book which defines the "Solid yellow spot on sides of banana vans" as "Constructed with improved insulation and not equipped with steam heating apparatus." 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 15, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Thanks Eric As only the first few wagons are visible I wonder if this is a banana train or merely our South Wales friends using them as a fitted head on something else? Phil Looks post-1970 and no Fyffes or Geest labels in sight so possiblt a fitted head on a coal train. Edited December 15, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 15, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2017 Hi Brian Hoped you would be along! Yes I had thought too about their use on the Llantrisant - Kingswinford working - in the 71-72 timetable it ran as a Class 8 northbound (loaded) but a class 6 southbound (empties). Where would the brakes for the class 6 have come from if not "tadpoles" ? I never saw the working but we were well aware of a northbound at the dead of night that shook the town about midnight - booked time at Abbotswood was 23.29 northbound so not far off - Hymek or 37? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 16, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2017 So I put br2975s questions to the photographer - Brian Thomas of www.hymek.co.uk fame and this is what he came back with... Bad news is "No" I didn't take an approaching shot and I don't recall if this was a full train of Banana wagons or just the few next to the locomotives. Good news is I did record the locomotive numbers and the date the photograph was taken. 7519 and 7503 Abbotswood Junction 6th August 1973. I didn't record the time but the leading banana van isn't casting a shadow on the locomotive so I suspect the time could be as late as 17:00 - 18:00 as the sun would be well round by then in August. Looks like the colour light signal has a strong shadow confirming the sun is well round to the west as well. So those locos were both Canton allocated at the time - but not sure that helps much! Anything booked for a pair of South Wales 25s at this time? Phil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 26, 2017 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 26, 2017 Thanks for all the comments. Looks like 15" is the correct size. I found out my Grandad's old leather punch which goes up to 3/16". I made a yellow transfer patch and punched out two discs. They would be the equivalent of about 14 1/4" and look fine on the model. Problem solved. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) So I put br2975s questions to the photographer - Brian Thomas of www.hymek.co.uk fame and this is what he came back with... Bad news is "No" I didn't take an approaching shot and I don't recall if this was a full train of Banana wagons or just the few next to the locomotives. Good news is I did record the locomotive numbers and the date the photograph was taken. 7519 and 7503 Abbotswood Junction 6th August 1973. I didn't record the time but the leading banana van isn't casting a shadow on the locomotive so I suspect the time could be as late as 17:00 - 18:00 as the sun would be well round by then in August. Looks like the colour light signal has a strong shadow confirming the sun is well round to the west as well. So those locos were both Canton allocated at the time - but not sure that helps much! Anything booked for a pair of South Wales 25s at this time? Phil Thanks Phil. . Geest imported bananas through Barry from 1959 until the early 1980s, but I'm not sure when they ceased using the traditional BR vans for distribution . By October, 1972 Shaw Savill were bringing bananas into Barry for Geest, and some of the banana hands / bunches were distributed by articulated lorry, using insulated containers. Happy New Year . Brian R Edited December 27, 2017 by br2975 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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