Looks like we could be losing the quiet carriages now

[Mallard60022]

I've always wished I was 'hard' enough to deal with loud, ignorant bas###ds using their phone or device in the quiet coach (or anywhere for that matter) by just going over to them and staring at their face until a response was given when I would tell them to shut up or the said phone or device would disappear where the sun do not shine. This would even be with the large skinhead with a bolt through the head or the flash bast##d who thinks he or she is invincible. Sadly I am too feeble to do that as I have no skills in unarmed combat and I have not read David Davis' guide to negotiation and so I wear ear plugs if required. Unfortunately for most of us this sort of arrogant ignorance and total disregard of other people's comfort and peace is commonplace and I for one would not want to be a member of train staff having to deal with this sort of sh#t.  However, I would happily support someone else that was brave enough to challenge these people, even physically.

Oh yes, I really, really hope the ECML trains do not lose their quiet coaches. 

Phil

Edited December 7, 2017 by Mallard60022

[96701]

I now have bluetooth headphones so that I can immerse myself in my podcasts and therefore not have to get annoyed by one sided conversations.

[Pete the Elaner]

Then again at Wood Green, again at Barnet, again at Hadley Wood (twice) and again at Potters Bar. Oh what fun I had with them phone users.............

 

I am always amused & annoyed by those who upon entering a tunnel seem to shout hello increasing loudly when they realise that the person at the other end can no longer hear them.

Then after about 20 seconds, they finally realise that the tunnel may have actually blocked the mobile signal.

 

I don't like taking a call when on the train, partly because I don't like hearing 1 half of a conversation so I don't think others would really like to hear mine, but also because dashing through 5 tunnels & the Chiltern cutting, at 100mph+ for half an hour tends to cut the call off quite frequently..

[D854_Tiger]

I've always wished I was 'hard' enough to deal with loud, ignorant bas###ds using their phone or device in the quiet coach (or anywhere for that matter) by just going over to them and staring at their face until a response was given when I would tell them to shut up or the said phone or device would disappear where the sun do not shine. This would even be with the large skinhead with a bolt through the head or the flash bast##d who thinks he or she is invincible. Sadly I am too feeble to do that as I have no skills in unarmed combat and I have not read David Davis' guide to negotiation and so I wear ear plugs if required. Unfortunately for most of us this sort of arrogant ignorance and total disregard of other people's comfort and peace is commonplace and I for one would not want to be a member of train staff having to deal with this sort of sh#t.  However, I would happily support someone else that was brave enough to challenge these people, even physically.

Oh yes, I really, really hope the ECML trains do not lose their quiet coaches. 

Phile 

 

There could well be relief on the way though.

 

The BBC has been commissioning a whole bunch of studies on teenagers, how they interact with each other via their use of telephones, and one surprise outcome has been the discovery that nowadays they never actually make any phone calls.

 

Indeed, further to that, many don't even know how to make a voice call, so used are they to texting and using instant messaging apps.

 

Then the real surprise many of them have developed an aversion to ever doing so, a whole area of social skill they have never experienced and indeed are quite scared to even consider, even worse, fear of ever actually having to meet anyone face to face.

 

There is even talk (and I kid you not) that they may have to introduce these skills into the school curriculum, so important are they deemed to be for later life.

 

The lesson seems to be that to truly understand the impact newer technologies like smart phones have made and are changing our society, you need to study those that have grown up with them.

[Pete the Elaner]

Not just teenagers.

It seems that the work environment is going that way too. Mine certainly is. Because everything emailed can be pasted into a logging system you can trace what has & has not been done.

I don't like it much though. Anything you say in an email can be thrown back at you & some staff seem to think the emailing more people will get something done more quickly, when the reverse is true: email one & they will not assume someone else will do it.

How nice is it to receive a phone call from someone offering to help you? This seems to be something which has been forgotten.

[Siberian Snooper]

An acquaintance of mine was travelling from Pompey to Brizzle, some youngster got on at Westbury with a ghetto blaster, he was asked to turn it down by those in the coach and also by the guard, but he just turned it up some more. My acquaintance then decide enough was enough and dropped it out of the hopper window, too a round of applause.

 

I always like travelling along the sea wall and the phones go and then we get to one of the tunnels.

[JDW]

I have to agree with the majority that I hate listening to other people's conversations, especially when most of it is inane drivel that could easily wait.  Nor do I want my private conversations - as boring as they may be - broadcast to everyone around me.  On the other hand, I do wonder where you draw the line as to what constitutes "quiet" - sitting reading is fine, as is a quiet conversation with the person next to you or across the table.  But then I wonder is it then OK to talk at the same volume on a mobile phone...?  Is it the talking, or the constant ringing/beeping that annoys more?  That said, either is better than those who feel a need to broadcast their music to everyone - headphones cost very little, use them!

 

On the opposite side, I did once use my phone in a quiet coach.  A 1st class coach on a Pendolino.  I was near one end, the only other person in the coach near the other end, and I was talking no louder than had I been talking to someone next to me so he couldn't have heard me if he'd wanted to, so decided to stay in my seat to make my short call.  And yes, you've guessed it, the guard insisted that I go and use my phone in the vestibule... 

[JeffP]

Some of this may be coming from those tasked with trying to get Joe Public to do as he/she is told. These days, there seems to be a very continental idea, that abounds, something along the lines of, "Everyone should obey the rules, but they don't apply to me". I first saw this in france some years ago, (where signs banning dogs on beaches etc were openly ignored), and I gather it's been prevalent in the USA for some time?

 

Some 40 years ago a mate and I used to travel frequently on Merrymaker excursions. On one such, a "gentleman" in our coach lit up a cigarette, despite there being window signs forbidding smoking. We asked him not to do so, but his answer was both rude and aggressive, pointing out to us that "It doesn't count on these trains, only service trains!".

 

I made my way down the train and asked the guard: "Excuse me. do the rules on service trains apply on excursions? so where it says, ' No smoking....' "

 

That was as far as I got before the guard broke in, "That's EXACTLY what it means, mate!"

 

His face, when I smiled sweetly and asked him then would he mind coming with me and pointing said fact out to Mr Big-and Burley in our coach...........

 

To give him his due, he did do so, and the guy and his family did end up moving. But the guard looked daggers at me every time I saw him.

[kevinlms]

There could well be relief on the way though.

 

The BBC has been commissioning a whole bunch of studies on teenagers, how they interact with each other via their use of telephones, and one surprise outcome has been the discovery that nowadays they never actually make any phone calls.

 

Indeed, further to that, many don't even know how to make a voice call, so used are they to texting and using instant messaging apps.

 

Then the real surprise many of them have developed an aversion to ever doing so, a whole area of social skill they have never experienced and indeed are quite scared to even consider, even worse, fear of ever actually having to meet anyone face to face.

 

There is even talk (and I kid you not) that they may have to introduce these skills into the school curriculum, so important are they deemed to be for later life.

 

The lesson seems to be that to truly understand the impact newer technologies like smart phones have made and are changing our society, you need to study those that have grown up with them.

Well on the way to creating a culture, like that of one of Issac Asimov's stories then. The Naked Sun.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Naked_Sun

 

WARNING contains spoiler alert, in case anyone wants to read this story. If so, don't read past the first 2 paragraphs of the plot.

[Mallard60022]

It used to be that certain 'characters' were the ones you avoided on trains, often later at night and often on long distance trips, as it was fairly obvious that they were going to be trouble. These days it is impossible to identify where there may be 'trouble' or unpleasantness as so many think that their right is to do as they wish, regardless and that isn't just on trains. I am sorry to say that it is a social ill and will not improve. Anti social behaviour of a different type from what it was recognised as (damage to property and violent behaviour) is now far more widespread then it ever was in my memoryand by that I mean littering, spitting, drunkenness in public, drug related activity in public, not recognising another's presence (including whilst walking, cycling, driving, even sitting.....man spreading for example) threatening and/or stupid behaviour that can cause danger and unpleasentness for others. Yes, we have regressed to conditions similar to those in years gone by, before society became policed sensibly and communities often dealt with their own 'problems'. I can not put my finger on why this is without getting political or except for the self, self, me, me, look at me and how super I am gene that is now prevalent. 

The sad thing is that so many like me are too scared to intervene in case they get biffed. Bloo#y annoying.

V. Meldrew.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mallard60022

[jjb1970]

All this is why I try to avoid late night trains as it is all magnified hugely by alcohol.

[jetmorgan]

It used to be that certain 'characters' were the ones you avoided on trains, often later at night and often on long distance trips, as it was fairly obvious that they were going to be trouble. These days it is impossible to identify where there may be 'trouble' or unpleasantness as so many think that their right is to do as they wish, regardless and that isn't just on trains. I am sorry to say that it is a social ill and will not improve. Anti social behaviour of a different type from what it was recognised as (damage to property and violent behaviour) is now far more widespread then it ever was in my memoryand by that I mean littering, spitting, drunkenness in public, drug related activity in public, not recognising another's presence (including whilst walking, cycling, driving, even sitting.....man spreading for example) threatening and/or stupid behaviour that can cause danger and unpleasentness for others. Yes, we have regressed to conditions similar to those in years gone by, before society became policed sensibly and communities often dealt with their own 'problems'. I can not put my finger on why this is without getting political or except for the self, self, me, me, look at me and how super I am gene that is now prevalent. 

The sad thing is that so many like me are too scared to intervene in case they get biffed. Bloo#y annoying.

V. Meldrew.

 

 

All this is why I try to avoid late night trains as it is all magnified hugely by alcohol.

I couldn't agree more...I think a better idea would be to have a booze ban on trains and stations to make travelling at any time more pleasant.

[D854_Tiger]

These days, there seems to be a very continental idea, that abounds, something along the lines of, "Everyone should obey the rules, but they don't apply to me". I first saw this in france some years ago, (where signs banning dogs on beaches etc were openly ignored)

 

They don't have laws in France, only suggestions.

 

It always makes me laugh when they accuse us British of being such bad Europeans, for resisting the imposition of yet another EU regulation, when you know full well most of the usual Continental suspect pretentious b******s have absolutely no intention of taking any regulation seriously.

[duncan]

I think the "me first" & "me only" culture was encouraged in the '80s & we are seeing the 2nd generation now, brought up (?), by often a single parent,  believing it to be the norm.

[D854_Tiger]

I couldn't agree more...I think a better idea would be to have a booze ban on trains and stations to make travelling at any time more pleasant.

 

I seriously doubt most drunks on trains have got tanked up on buffet prices.

 

By all accounts, in Scotland, after the 9 pm watershed, all the Irn Bru bottles come out, a colleague reckoned they were wall to wall on the train he was on to Aberdeen.

[jjb1970]

I seriously doubt most drunks on trains have got tanked up on buffet prices.

 

By all accounts, in Scotland, after the 9 pm watershed, all the Irn Bru bottles come out, a colleague reckoned they were wall to wall on the train he was on to Aberdeen.

I hated the train from Aberdeen to Edinburgh or Glasgow as more often as not you'd get offshore workers getting drunk and then acting obnoxiously. And then you'd get groups of them playing cards for money, oh joy. You would think they'd been offshore for four years rather than four weeks. Mind you I always preferred paying off ships on my own as flying home and being associated with some people I sailed with was embarrassing. Two ABs in P&OCL were fired as they bahaved so badly on a FLIGHT BA blacklisted them and also sent their details to some IATA list.

[D854_Tiger]

I think the "me first" & "me only" culture was encouraged in the '80s & we are seeing the 2nd generation now, brought up (?), by often a single parent,  believing it to be the norm.

 

I believe the correct term is 'snowflake'.

[Mallard60022]

I believe the correct term is 'snowflake'.

I think snowflake refers to some other type of person. They tend not to be aggressive or anti social, just a bit over sensitive and have never learned to debate or accept other's differing opinions. In fact I suspect I'm almost a snowflake, some maybe would suggest that a piece of sleet may be a better description. 

 Eva Snowball 

[JeffP]

I thought snowflakes were those who went round being offended on behalf of others...whjo were usually not in the slightest bit bothered.

[Mallard60022]

I thought snowflakes were those who went round being offended on behalf of others...whjo were usually not in the slightest bit bothered.

Not sure about that. It seems to be being used to describe younger people, particularly students, that do not want to be confronted by (or just be in the presence of) people giving opinions that they themselves do not hold or perhaps understand. Hence the 'safe places' idea at Unis with ref to visiting speakers. There seems to be a trend at the moment to give patronising names to others with whom one does not agree, for example Brexiteers or Remoaners. With many young people rarely communicating face to face these days then I don't hold out a lot of hope for them in the real world once they leave education. Blanket statement that may be but true discussion is diminishing.

Phil

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mallard60022

[Mark Saunders]

I believe the correct term is 'snowflake'.

Do you mean “Thatcher’s children” ?

[James Makin]

Not sure about that. It seems to be being used to describe younger people, particularly students, that do not want to be confronted by (or just be in the presence of) people giving opinions that they themselves do not hold or perhaps understand. Hence the 'safe places' idea at Unis with ref to visiting speakers. There seems to be a trend at the moment to give patronising names to others with whom one does not agree, for example Brexiteers or Remoaners. With many young people rarely communicating face to face these days then I don't hold out a lot of hope for them in the real world once they leave education. Blanket statement that may be but true discussion is diminishing.

Phil

I think the media is the worst for spreading this at the moment - a company or individual can’t really express any real opinions or do anything out of the norm for fear of offending at least someone out there! Even the likes of Pizza Hut had to apologise on Twitter last week for running a promotion with The Sun newspaper, after a small group of afflicted people flagged an issue with associating with the newspaper brand - no more free pizza there haha!

 

Even on social media, websites, at work or even on RMWeb for example, myself, I’m having to be very selective about what I ever broadcast, and your audience, as you never know who’s hiding round the corner ready to kick off and get you in trouble for something over nothing! It’ll be interesting what the next 5-10 years sees as I’m sure this will only magnify!

[jjb1970]

I switched off the the news after the Brexit referendum as it became profoundly depressing to just watch and listen to endless polarised drivel and people droning on about how anybody who didn't agree with there positions was stupid, unpatriotic, bigoted blah blah blah. Both sides as bad as the other and egged on by a media that loves it as it gives them some sort of reason to exist. Now I read a daily summary free from op-od BS and read the Economist magazine to try and stay informed and feel much better for it and don't feel like I am any less informed.

There is a real problem in society arising from intolerance of the views of others and dismissing any alternatives as stupid etc. And I do worry what might happen as the "safe space" generations grow up.

[D854_Tiger]

I switched off the the news after the Brexit referendum as it became profoundly depressing to just watch and listen to endless polarised drivel and people droning on about how anybody who didn't agree with there positions was stupid, unpatriotic, bigoted blah blah blah. Both sides as bad as the other and egged on by a media that loves it as it gives them some sort of reason to exist. Now I read a daily summary free from op-od BS and read the Economist magazine to try and stay informed and feel much better for it and don't feel like I am any less informed.

There is a real problem in society arising from intolerance of the views of others and dismissing any alternatives as stupid etc. And I do worry what might happen as the "safe space" generations grow up.

 

My mom deeply offended me once, on a day out at York, when I pointed out a Deltic and she called it a bit ugly.

 

I was in deep shock, in great need of a safe space.

[rockershovel]

I hated the train from Aberdeen to Edinburgh or Glasgow as more often as not you'd get offshore workers getting drunk and then acting obnoxiously. And then you'd get groups of them playing cards for money, oh joy. You would think they'd been offshore for four years rather than four weeks. Mind you I always preferred paying off ships on my own as flying home and being associated with some people I sailed with was embarrassing. Two ABs in P&OCL were fired as they bahaved so badly on a FLIGHT BA blacklisted them and also sent their details to some IATA list.

I wasn’t in the least sorry, when the oil industry decided that gambling offshore was a problem, and acted to suppress it. The British workers had picked up the habit from American co-workers and really didn’t have the cultural background to deal with it. It was a serious problem at one time.

 

The general imposition of “dry” status on rigs and vessels, though..... Binge drinking is a widespread British habit (and I definitely include both English and Scots in that category) and I was never particularly optimistic about the likely effects of removing a system in which controlled access to booze (and very few people ever got access to any great amount) was replaced by complete abstinence.