Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

Meanwhile, don't get too excited but ...

 

Actually ran some trains yesterday! Just a few passenger trains, mainly scratch rakes made up of what was lying around (the better stock is in the Shap boxes). No goods trains ran but Central goods yard is currently well stocked with over 100 wagons.

 

A first chance to try out the part complete 'beyond Central' fiddle yard area. Shows promise.

 

Also a chance to try out a few recent(-ish) loco purchases which have hitherto not been taken out of their boxes. Here, the Clan class leader 72000 improbably heads the Waverley through Bog Junction. A beautiful runner; from what I can tell, probably never been out of its box since it left the factory (from the original Hornby release a few years ago NOT the latest model).

 

I just set up and fettled the route to Garsdale - Shap Wells boards remain packed up for now.

 

The real reason for this burst of activity was the temporary invasion of Mrs 4479's family for a few hours. I had a feeling that 8 year old (step) grandson would not have forgotten about the 'train track' and so it proved! I decided that it was time to blood him on the principles of block signalling - needless to say he took to it instantly. Start 'em young, eh?

 

Meanwhile, a useful test track is available!

 

(In case you were wondering, the lack of any such running last year is because I've been waiting - and waiting(!) - for some internal work to be done in the chapel, work that needs to be done now before too much railway fills the space. Will require the room to be cleared as much as possible (existing permanent bits are OK) so I've not wanted to have too much set up pending 'getting the call'. Latest estimate is mid-January to make a start. Let's see. The link boards I've currently got set up will have to come down anyway before York show.)

 

[ian]

It's always good to get a few trains moving.

[LNER4479]

Meanwhile (2) ... perhaps a chance to get slightly more excited?

 

Pre-Christmas (in between the frantic preparations for Shap at Manchester), I did a bit of surveying work. These lengths of wood show the approximate alignment of the WCML descending from Shap summit (the site of 'Shaprith' station is in the distance, where the loco boxes are. If it all looks a bit cluttered then it was at this point - had to move quite a bit out of the way to set this up. A month on and there's considerably more space to swing the proverbial feline ...

 

Looking the other way, here's where a lot of stuff had been cleared from - the top left corner of the chapel (as viewed from the master plan). This is all about checking heights and gradients, hoping and trusting that the drawings and calculations on the plan translate into workable levels in practice. I concluded that it does - just. Looks like it'll be a circa 1-in-100 gradient for the southbound climb out of Carlisle. A bit steeper that I'd have liked but should be manageable with careful allocation of locos to trains. I don't intend any banking operations for this bit. Thereafter, the critical item here is the innocuous looking sheet of timber leant against the wall. That is in fact a sheet of 25mm thick ply and weighs a ton! About to be put to good use...

 

A bit of basic carpentry later and here it is in its intended position (I've since determined that it doesn't really need to be taken down again). Laid out on top, for first sizing up is Upperby MPD, goods yard (six roads) and the running lines. Happily, it all pretty much worked out as per plan.

 

The depot will largely be centred on the roundhouse. It was always my intention to push the table into the corner a little bit such that not all roads are full length; nonetheless, there's capacity here for 24 locos and most of the roads will accommodate a pacific. Below the shed, we have three outside depot roads which will depict the coal and ash servicing facilities whilst to the right are a few outside stabling sidings, as indeed there were in that area of the real shed. Finally, very top right will be a depiction of the carriage shed. Just two roads but enough to store some local sets overnight.

 

Meanwhile, there's the running lines going past the shed and goods yard sites. The really thing was quite complex so I had fun trying out various combinations of junctions and crossings to try and give a feel for the real thing and providing for as many of the prototypical moves as possible. And, although these junctions look quite grand, it appears that they were mainly for light engine and stock moves to and from the depot, mixed in with the goods line movements. It might not be crystal clear as set out like this but here goes:

 

Bottom left is the WCML heading for Citadel. If you can therefore imagine a double track formation curving slightly towards the centre of the picture and eventually heading for where that tape measure is sitting top right. Roughly parallel is then the down goods reception line, originating from alongside said tape measure and heading towards us. As it crosses the double junction formation nearest to us, it then morphs into the goods lines running into the separate Crown Street Goods yard - this is where the local (ex-LNWR) goods traffic was handled - Upperby yard as depicted was more of a marshalling yard. The next two lines are then the through goods running lines which head off (bottom left) towards Bog Junction. Beyond them are then the six roads of the goods yard. If any of that isn't clear, then the relevant section of the master plan is included below (I haven't mentioned the ex-M&CR lines which also needs squeezing in here but I'm planning those just to be a single track in the critical area, so shouldn't cause too much of an issue).

Movement of goods traffic into the yard was therefore quite complex, apparently involving a double shunt to get the wagons across the goods line and into the goods yard proper. I believe permissive block working was in operation on the goods lines and pictures show locos standing around on these lines whilst shunting goes on so they almost have a dual purpose - and will probably need to have to enable the layout to the operated in practice. Despite the apparent complexity, there are - inevitably - far fewer lines depicted here. The real location, at its height, seemed to delight in various separate little yards for specific traffic types (eg cattle) which must have made it a fascinating (for the enthuisast) and nightmare-ish (for the railway men) place in equal measure.

 

ANYHOW

 

Having had a bit of fun setting this out, the stage is set - hopefully - for this to be the main focus of effort in 2023, which'll then mean that a WCML train should be able to make a complete circuit of the chapel (in excess of a scale mile) to get from Central station to here. Arrival into Citadel (for the passenger traffic) might have to wait a year or two longer!

 

  

 

PS - anyone got a Heljan 89121 turntable they might have bought but then perhaps decided they didn't need afterall?(!) Serious question (I'm a bit stuck until I can get hold of one of those).

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by LNER4479

[Michael Edge]

1 in 100 is about right for the gradient out of Carlisle. When you get round to the Upperby roundhouse I've done all the drawings for it - it works out at about 4ft diameter by the way but it looks as though you will have room for a bigger segment than we have.

[LNER4479]

Thanks Mike; I'll bear that in mind.

 

Getting as many locos on Upperby shed as possible is a key thing on my scheme - mainly because it has to take all the locos that should have gone to Kingmoor as no room for the latter shed as well😧 (Perhaps I should re-name the depot 'Uppermoor'?) Only the ex-NBR / ex-NER route locos will go elsewhere (Canal shed).

So ... roundhouse can take 24 locos, 4-5 locos outside in ash/coal are, 5-6 locos in the outside stabling sidings hence c.35 loco on shed before it gets impossibly bunged up? Hopefully that'll be enough!

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

A bit of basic carpentry later and here it is in its intended position (I've since determined that it doesn't really need to be taken down again). Laid out on top, for first sizing up is Upperby MPD, goods yard (six roads) and the running lines. Happily, it all pretty much worked out as per plan.

That looks like a long reach across. Have you recruited Twizzle to your team?

 

7 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

PS - anyone got a Heljan 89121 turntable they might have bought but then perhaps decided they didn't need afterall?(!) Serious question (I'm a bit stuck until I can get hold of one of those).

I know someone who might - watch this space.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I know someone who might - watch this space.

My mate has an 89111. He had a lot of trouble with it, which is why he doesn't use it any more.

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That looks like a long reach across. Have you recruited Twizzle to your team?

Aha! I was wondering who was going to spot that first ...

'Tis indeed a long reach ... in fact an impossibly long reach ... without a bit of thought and pre-planning. Firstly, the use of that piece of 25mm ply is deliberate as it will be suitably braced to take my weight as I'll need to work on top of it to install the turntable and radial tracks. Thereafter, it should be all 'hands off' operation being a loco depot, relying on the indexing of the Heljan table to line up every time (probably with some form of camera to assist). However, there's always the possibility of something going awry or even just humble cleaning / maintenance so ...

Secondly, the critical section of the running lines in the foreground will be arranged as a lift out section for just such eventualities; I've already marked and cut off the nearest corner of the board accordingly.

 

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I know someone who might - watch this space.

Thanks. I'll keep a watch on said space 😉

[LNER4479]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

My mate has an 89111. He had a lot of trouble with it, which is why he doesn't use it any more.

We've installed a 89121 in Barry's loco depot. Seems like the tool for the job but need to proceed with care I feel. It's 90' HO which works out as scale 78' in 4mm. That extra length should give a bit of leeway when trying to position a pacific from 4 feet away(!)

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

We've installed a 89121 in Barry's loco depot. Seems like the tool for the job but need to proceed with care I feel. It's 90' HO which works out as scale 78' in 4mm. That extra length should give a bit of leeway when trying to position a pacific from 4 feet away(!)

An extra half-inch is always a good thing...

 

BTW Google can't tell me the difference between an 89111 and an 89121.

Edited January 5, 2023 by St Enodoc

[Barry Ten]

I'm pretty sure the various Walthers turntables in N and HO are made for them by Heljan, but not sure how much they differ from the Heljan ones marketed in Europe and the UK. My 130' one in N has been very reliable. I did have to take it apart once to clean a bit of grit from one of the gears, but that was my fault for not keeping modelling debris out of the well.

[drmditch]

12 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

We've installed a 89121 in Barry's loco depot. Seems like the tool for the job but need to proceed with care I feel. It's 90' HO which works out as scale 78' in 4mm. That extra length should give a bit of leeway when trying to position a pacific from 4 feet away(!)

I use a Fleischmann (HO) turntable, which I think you have seen and operated.

It is not meant to be representational on my railway, but part of the 'rest of the world' . sidings.

I had some problems a year or so ago when it was unpacked after storage, but I was able to buy the key replacement part from Fleischmann. (Just before Brexit became operative.)

A quick check just now revealed availability in the UK - at a considerable cost!

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I'm pretty sure the various Walthers turntables in N and HO are made for them by Heljan, but not sure how much they differ from the Heljan ones marketed in Europe and the UK. 

 

1 hour ago, drmditch said:

I use a Fleischmann (HO) turntable, which I think you have seen and operated.

A quick check just now revealed availability in the UK - at a considerable cost!

Thanks both. I am aware of other options - funnily enough, was checking out the Walthers one last night - all involve considerable cost! Interesting to know that the Walthers one might be manufactured by Heljan ...

[Tony Teague]

Hi Graham

I can't help you with sourcing but I can say that I am happy to recommend the Heljan turntables in use. I have two on my layout and I find them reliable and they look right even if they are slightly over size.

Both of mine could do with a bit more weathering / scenic work around them, but on one I have removed the continental style shed and added a fireman holding a steam pipe:

 

 

The other has yet to be butchered in this way but is beginning to merge into the landscape:

 

In terms of sourcing I wonder if you might be best to look around small, individual model shops - there may well be one that has such in thing in stock and would be happy to shift it?

 

PS - meant to add that they only need re-indexing if you lift the deck out, and or if a tiny bit of ballast gets into the cog that rotates around the outside, as this can cause the deck to jump out of alignment, but it is not a difficult process.

Tony

Edited January 5, 2023 by Tony Teague

[queensquare]

I recently scratch-built the turntable for Bath, details a couple of pages back over on my Bath thread if of any use or interest

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

 

PS - meant to add that they only need re-indexing if you lift the deck out, and or if a tiny bit of ballast gets into the cog that rotates around the outside, as this can cause the deck to jump out of alignment, but it is not a difficult process.

Tony

 

If by re-indexing you mean setting all the stop positions again, you don't need to do this. You just have to press the reset button and allow the turntable to recalibrate itself by rotating around until it relocates the optical sensor and thereby "knows" what angle it's at. Once it's done that, it's fine again. It is helpful to occasionally lift the deck out to clean the wiper contacts I find, and I wouldn't want to have to do the indexing each time!

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Barry Ten

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

If by re-indexing you mean setting all the stop positions again, you don't need to do this. You just have to press the reset button and allow the turntable to recalibrate itself by rotating around until it relocates the optical sensor and thereby "knows" what angle it's at. Once it's done that, it's fine again. It is helpful to occasionally lift the deck out to clean the wiper contacts I find, and I wouldn't want to have to do the indexing each time!

 

 

You learn something everyday!

Thanks.

[Barry Ten]

25 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

You learn something everyday!

Thanks.

 

Please check the manual first, as I think the relevant button is labelled "zero" or similar, at least on my controller.

[Tony Teague]

33 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Please check the manual first, as I think the relevant button is labelled "zero" or similar, at least on my controller.

 

Will do, although being a male person, 'reading the manual' does not come naturally!

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, queensquare said:

I recently scratch-built the turntable for Bath, details a couple of pages back over on my Bath thread if of any use or interest

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jerry. Looks lovely, as you work invariably does.

 

It's not the building of the table itself that fazes me; it's the indexing of 24 roads to reliably line up every time that is the issue with the Upperby roundhouse. There's plenty of other turntables in the grand scheme - I count at least 7 in total (Central, Upperby, Canal x 2(!), Garsdale, Riccarton and Edinburgh so plenty of scope for building turntables in the years to come (including plagiarising the good ideas of others!)

 

[queensquare]

12 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Thanks Jerry. Looks lovely, as you work invariably does.

 

It's not the building of the table itself that fazes me; it's the indexing of 24 roads to reliably line up every time that is the issue with the Upperby roundhouse. There's plenty of other turntables in the grand scheme - I count at least 7 in total (Central, Upperby, Canal x 2(!), Garsdale, Riccarton and Edinburgh so plenty of scope for building turntables in the years to come (including plagiarising the good ideas of others!)

 

My method of indexing is basically electro-mechanical and is based on that used by John Greenwood which has its roots in Peter Denny’s Buckingham. I wouldn’t want to build more than one turntable but John’s North Cornwall system has four, including StBlazey.

Very much enjoying this thread.

Jerry

 

 

[LNER4479]

Back with the Patriot, the last few days have been concentrating on - carefully - putting it all together as a running loco.

 

Chassis stripped back for one last(?!) time to allow access for the heavy soldering iron (this is an old style chassis with thicker lumps of brass!). If you look carefully you should be able to make out copper clad mounting pads for pickups, tag for live chassis motor connection (left hand end) and mounting shaft for valve gear reversing links (immediately to the rear of leading wheelset.

 

It similarly occurred to me that I needed to attend to the brake blocks as they would be very difficult to mount (front ones especially) with motion assembled.

 

You can see front brake blocks mounted and I'm now preparing to make the front coupling rod joint on the crankpins. As always, clearances are critical with the connecting rods; my preferred solution here is to countersink the rod bush and fit a dished washer to suit, filing it all flat after soldering.

 

Phew! All runs smoothly under test.

 

With that, I fitted the pick-ups and the whole thing is now in its intended final condition. This allowed some initial track testing to prove all is well 

 

Another boring (non-sexy) but important job - setting up the body fixing screws. There was quite a bit of free movement hitherto. Quite a bit of unseen work here, including an additional rear mounting pad to keep the running plate at its correct (6' 3" / 25mm) ride height; also a slug of lead weight in the top half of the firebox - running trials showed it all to be a bit nose heavy otherwise.

 

And now concentrating on engine-to-tender connection. Innocentman's etches included the rear drag plate, shown here now fitted beneath the cab, including the buffing pads. This provides the (prototypical) slot for the draw bar to pass through - I've gleefully chopped off the great big 'orrible Bachmann plastic arrangement! I'm going to fit tender pick ups as running trials show a bit of hesitant running through dead frogs so I'll de-risk that at source.

 

A lot of this involves patient, careful work, meaning that progress isn't always spectacular. But I know it will be repaid in terms of the best chance of a smooth running, reliable loco.

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by LNER4479

[Barry Ten]

25 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

so I'll de-risk that at source.

 

 

That's going straight into my own loco-building vocabulary, thanks! 😀

[LNER4479]

Every now and then, you just have to let your hair down a bit, don't you?

 

With a bit of track for testing, I couldn't resist the temptation to give a try out for some kit built locos acquired over the last few years - all courtesy of 'Honest Tone's of Little Bytham.

This DJH Duchess was given a quick spin at Manchester but it was nice to place her on the tracks of her new permanent home. She's due in the paint shop for renumbering - wrong tender type for No.6251 (quite apart from the fact that I already have 46251 in red!).

 

I knew she was a strong puller but even so, 16 behind the tender is an impressive sight. There is a slight uphill gradient here - nothing as steep as Shap - but at least still some work to do. Strode away! (Portescap fitted)

 

Next up, a rather nicely built 'Clan' (Another DJH Portescap build). It is however set up on the 'American system' wiring wise and needed its engine-tender wire reinstated. When I tried it, it went the wrong way! I'm not a great fan of the system in any case so a bit of work to do before she can enter service. I reduced the load to 12, which is the maximum the layout is designed for. Again, this loco had no problem.

 

Also having no trouble with the load was the other DJH Duchess from the Brian Lee collection. This loco needs a bit of work appearance-wise. It looks like it's had a heavy impact at the front ended (dropped?) and she's finished as 46256 in early BR livery. Again - snap! - I already have 46256 (in her iconic maroon livery) so this one's going to have to become 46257. The finish is not as good as t'other one, so I don't have as many qualms contemplating a full repaint into BR lined green. In the meantime - goes like stink! Just toyed with this load so plenty of promise for the future.

 

Bit of a change now and one for the Eastern Region fans - or should that be ScR (ex-NBR)? For this loco will spend its time plying between Edinburgh and Carlisle. A SE Finecast build.

 

Load now down to 10 which it just coped with. Loco not as heavy as you might expect. I suspect she'll be OK taking through goods trains up through Riccarton. Other than probably re-numbering, this loco is ready to go straight into service.

 

Staying with goods locos, this SE Finecast ex-Midland (RH drive) 4F is a lovely model, another one shod with a Portescap. 8 coaches was her limit but should be fine plodding over the S&C section with medium-sized goods trains. Again, she's more or less ready for service 'as is'.

 

Another down at the smaller end of the scale, this DJH D20 was acquired some years ago now. Obviously will need re-livery - she's intended to be motive power for the Wensleydale branch running out of Garsdale. Looks a little 'plain' at the front end (I need to study pictures & drawings to be sure) and was a bit light on her feet. Load reduced to 6 and still slipping a bit. However, she'll only have a 2-coach load on the branch so not an issue.

 

Lastly, this K's Princess. It's quite a nice livery finish - but only correct for this loco in modern preservation times! More immediately, there's a significant tight spot in the mechanism somewhere. Got that warm motor smell after just a couple of trips up and down light engine so left it at that. Given that it looks like it'll need a strip down, but not wanting to lose that paint finish, I have an idea to modify the motion to create the doyen of the Stanier Pacifics, No.46200. But some way down the works queue at present.

 

And there we have it - a bit of a mix. I like to think I've been carefully selective in such purchases, resisting quite a few other 'Honest Tone's sales pitches along the way(!) Hopefully such locos will add variety and individualism to the loco stud which will otherwise - inevitably - be dominated by RTR locos.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by LNER4479

[Barry Ten]

A question about Shap, if I may? If I was reading the baseboard joints correctly at the Manchester show, it looked as if there were rail joiners between the track sections spanning the joints? I thought this was a rather nifty idea for ensuring rail alignment, and the running certainly looked rock solid across the joints. If I'm correct about the joiners, are they just slid on and off at the appropriate times or are they retained in any way?