Hills of the North - The Last Great Project

[LNER4479]

8 hours ago, drmditch said:

What are the hinge arrangements for your lifting flaps?

Are they in their final form?

 

Will hopefully be answered by the following ...

 

Been tackling the joint across the hinged end of the WCML board. Never one for the easy life(!), I'm having some pointwork on the lifting piece! This does serve as Shap summit (at least operationally) so the trailing crossover is partly for sending bankers back once their shoving has been done. But it also provides a run round facility at 'Shaprith', principally for any trains from Carlisle terminating at Penrith.

Meanwhile, the other point is the lead into a small yard at this end. As well as having a purpose for any local goods traffic, any bankers can be held here pending a path back down the bank. I was going to have it just the other side of the gap but putting it this side will enable the roads in the yard to be that much longer - it's going to be quite cramped as it is.

 

Tracklaying proceeds. The rails immediately either side of the gap have had their sleepers cleared ready for soldering to copper clads.

 

Like so. Two (gapped!) sleepers per side.

 

Now then - that hinge. Thought I was doing ever so well ... but can you spot the difference? Having soldered the rails then cut through with the slitting disc, I triumphantly gave it a try ... only to meet with resistance and hear some ominous crunching noises. Oops!

 

The hinge was screwed directly to the baseboard top, meaning that its line of action was BELOW the rails, hence they were getting closer rather than separating when the board hinge was activated - schoolboy error!

 

As can be seen, 9mm packing pieces have been deployed - and now it works as it should. And yes - that is the finished installation, just one sturdy hinge on one side. Might look flimsy but once t'other end is located then it all lines up OK.

 

Certain aspects are likely to be a bit agricultural, especially 'off scene' parts. Just so long as it all works OK. Life's too short.

Edited July 10, 2023 by LNER4479

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Like this, you mean?

 

Might not have been too obvious from earlier photos, but the lower flap has had a batten affixed below the board to stiffen it. The upper flap has a midway support which is thus resting on the now strengthened lower board.

 

Seems to be OK, certainly should take the weight of trains. I'm keen to avoid any intermediate legs for (relative) ease of access when flaps are down - eg to put kettle on(!)

 

I'm no @chris p bacon, but that bottom batten should be an integral part of the board/hinge/flap assembly, not an afterthought IMHO,  as sure as eggs is eggs it will start to head south, de-laminating the bit of un-battened plywood.

 

Mike.

[chris p bacon]

30 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

that bottom batten should be an integral part of the board/hinge/flap assembly, not an afterthought IMHO,  as sure as eggs is eggs it will start to head south, de-laminating the bit of un-battened plywood.

I agree with Mike, the hinge side needs to be a bit more 'robust' to avoid future problems.

[drmditch]

Hmm. Well, it's your railway and you build more in a few weeks than I have done in the past two years.

 

I probably over-engineer my woodwork solutions anyway, but my 'swinging wedge' still seems to be stable.

 

How will you retain the flaps in the 'up' position?

[Jesse Sim]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Will hopefully be answered by the following ...

 

Been tackling the joint across the hinged end of the WCML board. Never one for the easy life(!), I'm having some pointwork on the lifting piece! This does serve as Shap summit (at least operationally) so the trailing crossover is partly for sending bankers back once their shoving has been done. But it also provides a run round facility at 'Shaprith', principally for any trains from Carlisle terminating at Penrith.

Meanwhile, the other point is the lead into a small yard at this end. As well as having a purpose for any local goods traffic, any bankers can be held here pending a path back down the bank. I was going to have it just the other side of the gap but putting it this side will enable the roads in the yard to be that much longer - it's going to be quite cramped as it is.

 

Tracklaying proceeds. The rails immediately either side of the gap have had their sleepers cleared ready for soldering to copper clads.

 

Like so. Two (gapped!) sleepers per side.

 

Now then - that hinge. Thought I was doing ever so well ... but can you spot the difference? Having soldered the rails then cut through with the slitting disc, I triumphantly gave it a try ... only to meet with resistance and hear some ominous crunching noises. Oops!

 

The hinge was screwed directly to the baseboard top, meaning that its line of action was BELOW the rails, hence they were getting closer rather than separating when the board hinge was activated - schoolboy error!

 

As can be seen, 9mm packing pieces have been deployed - and now it works as it should. And yes - that is the finished installation, just one sturdy hinge on one side. Might look flimsy but once t'other end is located then it all lines up OK.

 

Certain aspects are likely to be a bit agricultural, especially 'off scene' parts. Just so long as it all works OK. Life's too short.

I had a feeling reading the post that you would be hit with the hinge problem.

 

I find it odd that I never came across this problem as I too screwed my hinges straight onto the baseboard but it lifted well above the track and never crunched. I eventually added a small bit of timber to each end on each hinge eventually just to be safe... 

 

It all look's fantastic RL. 

[LNER4479]

Seeing as my structural engineering has attracted more interest than expected, here's some further pix to explain what's going on in a bit more detail.

 

The 'heavy lifting' is being done by the lower flap (carrying the goods avoiding lines). The upper flap is doing little more than resting on top. The hinge arrangement for the bottom flap is shown here - a butt hinge either side of the flap, fixed to short batten pieces.

 

View with flap raised, showing how the bracing batten butts up against the aforementioned end batten.

 

If there is a weak point, it's probably at the other end where the flap just rests on a supporting piece of 9mm ply. The end of the batten just ... er ... ends! But, for now at least, I'm using a 3/4in screw to secure the flap in position on the rest so it's all pretty secure. It's only taking the weight of a toy train!

 

And, with luck, we'll see some of them running over it by the end of the week 😀

Edited July 10, 2023 by LNER4479

[gr.king]

I was thinking in terms of a possible need for a true extra leg, mid way along, on the outside edge. If hinged where it attaches to the underside of the board it would fall neatly aside as the flap is raised. It could also be pushed partly aside for emergency duck-under kettle access, for those who haven't super-sized themselves anyway.

[LNER4479]

Anyhow ...

 

Tracklaying continued across the upper lifting flap ...

 

... and connected up with the existing tracks at the top of Shap. Instantly, we now have a lengthy run that completes a full lap of the chapel. Objective No.1 completed.

 

Some details. At the lifting end, I've made use of some set-track pieces, as this a minimum (for me) 3 foot radius curve. Most set-track is of course far tighter than that; however, Peco handily do an 'adapter curve' (ST-238) which is 33" radius - close enough. They sell them as a two-pack (ST-2038) so I bought two of them, to use as illustrated. In doing so, I can use my beloved sliding fishplates. Much simpler and guaranteed alignment.

 

It gets better (worse?). The piece of trackbed between the flap and the top of Shap needs to be removable (at least for now), so as I can get the Shap boards out for exhibitions. All this degree of dismantlement has not been without its head scratching ... and there's probably more elegant solutions(!) but the above is good enough for me. Coaches seem to run through it fine as an initial trial although the real proof will be when it all gets livened up. There are some gradient changes involved!

 

For now - on to objective No.2 ...

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by LNER4479

[Tortuga]

47 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

From that photo it looks like the sharpest part of the curve is at the end of the lifting flap and therefore fully supported without the need for an extra leg as previously suggested.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

From that photo it looks like the sharpest part of the curve is at the end of the lifting flap and therefore fully supported without the need for an extra leg as previously suggested.

More or less. It's actually a fairly constant curve (of approx 33" radius) from about half way over the flap (once the points have been cleared) until it starts to straighten out to line up with the Shap tracks. About 3 coach-lengths, I'd say.

(FWIW, both flaps are about 3 foot long)

[Jesse Sim]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

In doing so, I can use my beloved sliding fishplates. Much simpler and guaranteed alignment.

 

 

 

I just got PTSD from Harrogate.... 

[LNER4479]

And now this evening's report ...

 

Objective No.2 - connect up with Dentonholme from the north - involves quite a fair length of track to lay. However, quite a bit of that are straightforward lengths of double track. The sections beneath Shap Fell are removable (obviously?), so that at least makes the tracklaying easy 🤗

 

Like this. Very pleasant working conditions. Of note is that these lengths are being laid using Code 100, for robustness, given the need for removability.

 

There we are. Tracks now in position up to the site of Caldew junctions (Carlisle No.3 box). The two trusty test coaches are standing by ...

 

Meanwhile, I know opinions differ but FWIW, ordered this lot Sunday evening and it was here by lunchtime today. You can't say fairer than that. These points required for later in the week.

[LNER4479]

And so, now for a serious session of tracklaying - what a chore(!)

 

Caldew Junc (Carlisle No.3 box), effectively a short stretch of 4-track mainline, with double crossovers both ways. It's not intended to be a scenic bit of the layout - and it's partly hidden under Shap Fell (!) - but it's still an important (crucial even!) operating position so worth taking care over.

 

Well 'in the zone', with all the paraphernalia of tracklaying spread out.

 

First double junction installed. This one is underneath Shap Fell, but I laid it with the board in situ (rather than remove it) to keep an eye on overall alignment; the smaller toffee hammer was deployed to get at the track pins.

 

And repeat two further times! These were somewhat easier, being out in the open. For now, that's all I need to lay as we're heading away on the outer set of lines (where the coaches are). Note that, despite this being 'off scene ', I've maintained 45mm track centres for the pairs of running lines, with 61mm separation in between. I just like the look of it like that!

 

I've included a single slip in the formation, to give the option of crossing between up and down lines, if required. Also of note is that all these are dead frog points and will be hand operated. I've also recycled some serviceable pointwork from my old 'Gowhole' loft layout (hence mixture of new and faded colours). That one about life being short, again ...

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by LNER4479

[BoD]

I’m sure that if you thought long and hard about it you would somehow be able to fit Grantham in too.

[Black Marlin]

I have just re-read this entire thread, as I find it so inspirational (I am embarking on a similarly large project myself - a 40' x 20' roundy roundy. Although it will probably be next summer before I start laying track).

[ian]

30 minutes ago, BoD said:

I’m sure that if you thought long and hard about it you would somehow be able to fit Grantham in too.

He'd need a bigger mezzanine for that....

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Black Marlin said:

I have just re-read this entire thread, as I find it so inspirational (I am embarking on a similarly large project myself - a 40' x 20' roundy roundy. Although it will probably be next summer before I start laying track).

All 98 pages? Good grief. We need an 😲 emoji as a reaction for that. Apologies, as most must be missing their photos these days.

 

Anyhow, good luck with your own mega project. Any details posted anywhere yet?

[Adrock]

3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

And so, now for a serious session of tracklaying - what a chore(!)

 

Caldew Junc (Carlisle No.3 box), effectively a short stretch of 4-track mainline, with double crossovers both ways. It's not intended to be a scenic bit of the layout - and it's partly hidden under Shap Fell (!) - but it's still an important (crucial even!) operating position so worth taking care over.

 

Well 'in the zone', with all the paraphernalia of tracklaying spread out.

 

First double junction installed. This one is underneath Shap Fell, but I laid it with the board in situ (rather than remove it) to keep an eye on overall alignment; the smaller toffee hammer was deployed to get at the track pins.

 

And repeat two further times! These were somewhat easier, being out in the open. For now, that's all I need to lay as we're heading away on the outer set of lines (where the coaches are). Note that, despite this being 'off scene ', I've maintained 45mm track centres for the pairs of running lines, with 61mm separation in between. I just like the look of it like that!

 

I've included a single slip in the formation, to give the option of crossing between up and down lines, if required. Also of note is that all these are dead frog points and will be hand operated. I've also recycled some serviceable pointwork from my old 'Gowhole' loft layout (hence mixture of new and faded colours). That one about life being short, again ...

 

The junction looks complex (and therefore amazing!). When you say the points will be hand operated, do you mean via wire in a tube to the edge of the board? Or literally by moving the tie bars themselves? 
 

I really look forward to seeing the updates each day, it’s just superb in concept and execution!

[LNER4479]

10 minutes ago, Adrock said:

The junction looks complex (and therefore amazing!). When you say the points will be hand operated, do you mean via wire in a tube to the edge of the board? Or literally by moving the tie bars themselves? 

Certainly for now totally manual (ie moving the tie-bars by hand). Maybe one day in the future when everything else is done (ha!) we could add some degree of finesse ...

[LNER4479]

Now, this tracklaying is all very well but it needs a source of urge if we're going to get anything to move.

 

I need to do electrickery in bite-size chunks otherwise I get a bit overwhelmed by it. And wiring up doesn't really have the 'wow' factor visually so your gonna have to work with me on this one. Anyhow, to get us started, I've rigged up a temporary support ... for a temporary (hopefully!) controller. The permanent control panel for this operating position will be in this area but needs more structure around it before it gets installed.

For now, I've connected up the basic track feeds for the 'Shaprith' station area (to the dropper wires installed when track round these parts was laid). And for a test loco it could only be ... 

And it goes! Quite something to see it disappearing towards Upperby to become just a black blob in the distance. Lovely n smooth n quiet - but that's the foam underlay for you.

Got as far as shown. Further wiring required to get it to go across the flap(!)

 

Some of this wiring is (hopefully!) for keeps - don't want to do it twice! This connector block has the track section feeds coming in all nice n neat at the top, allowing quick n easy temporary connections thereafter, pending permanent arrangement.

 

I need a lie down now.

[Black Marlin]

39 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Anyhow, good luck with your own mega project. Any details posted anywhere yet?

Thank you! Some details and initial thoughts can be found in my layout thread, which is in my signature.

In the meantime, here's a pic from the only section of the layout that exists - a 4' square board that is more proof of concept than anything else...

[LNER4479]

And now: your mission - should you choose to accept it - fill this gap!

 

 

See you later 😉

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Looking at that mug, tea boy/pot washer Clive is going to have his work cut out, are you doing biological experiments on the side?

 

Mike.

[LNER4479]

Indeed. A mug o tea don't taste proper without a good layer on the sides.😋

 

Amusingly, the last one I put in the wishdosher came out looking just the same! I had to resort to hand scouring to restore some order of cleanliness

[Metropolitan H]

25 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Indeed. A mug o tea don't taste proper without a good layer on the sides.😋

 

Amusingly, the last one I put in the wishdosher came out looking just the same! I had to resort to hand scouring to restore some order of cleanliness

Try a Steradent tablet and boiling water - then leave to stand for half hour. Alternatively, use a teaspoon of Bicarbonate of Soda and fill with boiling water - but beware you dont spill on painted surfaces, it can lift the paint.

 

Regards

Chris H